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[Discussion] Defederation does not do what you think it does

3 years ago by TendieMaster69 to c/agora

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In the spirit of being encouraged to speak my mind here's a slight effort post:

Defederation does not do what you think it does.

The instance creator and admins are those with the ultimate power within their instance. The active users delegate them that power by interacting with their instance.

Defining "defederation" within the context of Lemmy as I understand it:

"the act of denying the ability for accounts within specific instances to interact with each other"

Anyone at this current time can create an account on most instances. One site on sh.itjust.works is defederated right now, but anyone here may also have an account there, who knows? The value comes from our activity and interaction within each instance.

Defederation is a narrow and a slippery slope because it doesn't actually solve any problems. There are many instances which are doing things I think should be banned. I don't interact with them. I don't provide them with any value.

We uphold an inclusive enjoyable community here by being active. Individuals with malicious intent are ostracized naturally by an active community. Defederating entire instances does not stop bad actors, but an active strongwilled community does.

It's not our responsibility to moderate other instances.

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exohuman 47 points 3 years ago

There are bot instances cropping up that absolutely must be defederated in order to keep the platform viable.

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path: 0 395159, hotness: undefined, score: 47, children: 14
Difficult_Bit_1339 22 points 3 years ago

This is actually one of the things I think de-federation is meant for. Anybody can stand up an instance and use it to post spam.

De-federation is a useful tool to cut off such an instance without having to grow your ban list by orders of magnitude.

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path: 0 395159 400200, hotness: undefined, score: 22, children: 2
imaqtpie 11 points 3 years ago

Strongly agree, the ghost instances with 10k bot accounts are going to cause a problem sooner rather than later, but its extremely easy to defederate them and we should probably do so ASAP.

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path: 0 395159 400200 404597, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 1
TendieMaster69 10 points 3 years ago

Developers should definitely start figuring out how to implement anti-bot systems. You can't just use that though. You also need to have an active community that self moderates and purges bots when they're seen. There is no way to stop bots entirely and efforts to do so would alienate users and lead to the decline of activity.

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Deceptichum -26 points 3 years ago

News flash genius.

Bots can run their own instances. And those instances can be used to interact with the rest of the Fediverse.

Doesn’t matter if your instance takes measures to stop bots signing up when they’ve just created 10,000 accounts on a VPS they spun up and spammed every other federated instance.

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path: 0 395159 396116 401425, hotness: undefined, score: -26, children: 6
theblueredditrefugee 10 points 3 years ago

True, this is very important!

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ChickenAndRice 6 points 3 years ago

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nanoUFO 3 points 3 years ago

and those that desire to brigade other communities like lemmy.grad. I think any instance that allows drawings/art of underaged people should also be defederated.

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path: 0 395159 401449, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
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