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JustPlainDave 92 points 13 days ago

People really need to understand that criticizing Israel isn't antisemitic.

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surfrock66 4 points 13 days ago

But people also need to acknowledge that antisemitism can still exist despite the genocide that Israel's government is doing. This whole movement of recoiling any time anyone mentions antisemitism has big "all lives matter" energy, as if it's impossible for a group to be marginalized when a symbolic avatar of that group has become a justifiable bad guy.

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JustPlainDave 29 points 13 days ago

But people also need to acknowledge that antisemitism can still exist despite the genocide that Israel's government is doing.

Nobody is saying otherwise.

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surfrock66 4 points 13 days ago

Maybe it's the spaces I'm in, but I've seen it extensively. The terms zionist and jew are interchangeable to a lot of people. Gaza and Israel are huge issues, but separating the Israeli government from Israeli people from all Jews has become a quagmire that the average person I think doesn't have the capacity to separate.

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sns 5 points 13 days ago

Israel is the primary cause of antisemitism, not the victim.

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surfrock66 2 points 13 days ago

Your language just did it. You said "Israel" without any nuance for "the government of Israel", "people who support the government of Israel", or "Israeli citizens that oppose and protest the government."

It's like saying "Americans hate black people and minorities." Yea, the current government's actions support that. The current government was elected by a majority. Even those in the minority pay sales/income taxes, in effect supporting the fascist Trump regime. That being said, all Americans do NOT hate black people and minorities, and I would be offended by that classification.

I have personally watched this same mechanism cause people who have agency to oppose the Israeli regime recoil from leftist spaces and embrace apathy, making the situation worse and actually harming Gazans. Language and nuance is critical in preserving allies with agency, even if it doesn't earn internet points.

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Azteh 1 point 13 days ago

I understand the specific distinction, but when a majority wants what is happening, I also feel it is fair to say that the people want it. Sure, it's not everyone and sometimes it's 51/49 split, but that is democracy for you. Now I'm not saying all of Israel wants what is happening but since the majority wants it, I feel it's fair to say that the country Israel does want it/support it. Where else should we draw the line? Does it have to be 100% of people who want it before we can use that kind of phrase? Is 90% okay?

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surfrock66 5 points 13 days ago

As an American in California that hates everything our current fascist regime is doing, it's hard not to get defensive when people paint an entire nation and all it's people with a brush based on the actions of a majority elected government; I want to give people the grace I hope they afford to me.

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prole 3 points 12 days ago

We don't deserve that grace

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