Change my mind too (͡•_ ͡• )
Change my mind too (͡•_ ͡• )
I'll just leave my comment from further down in the thread here for you two:
I don't like MBTI either, they've had a hundred years of opportunity to do science but never used it. They're a business selling coaching re-investing into marketing, not science. I'm merely using their abbreviations because they became a lingua franca.
MBTI being bunk doesn't mean that Jung didn't spot something real, though, even if he proved nothing and could only describe it fuzzily (he didn't even describe 16 types, but eight, based on primary cognitive function. In that rough model ISTPs and INTPs are one and the same which we definitely aren't). The whole of Psychological types is basically saying "hey guys there's something here we should have a look at it". Chapter 10 is the interesting one, the rest is... philology? It's the best proof he could muster back then give the man a break that was 100 years ago.
On the scientific front the best the typology community has right now is Juan E Sandoval's stuff, the pilot studies are quite promising but there's more theorycrafting to be done before applying for grants for properly-sized studies to then throw at the scientific establishment saying "prove us wrong".
In case of tl;dw: Consider embodied cognition, and following from that that cognitive operations are expressed outwardly by various gestures, suchlike, CT calls the lot of it vultology. Then make a taxonomy of markers, analyse a lot of video marking those things and throw statistics at the data, what you get out of that is bimodal distributions, showing that there's actual differences between people (that is, unlike Big5 axis which don't have bimodal distributions). Make a twin study, observe that twins share vultological clusters, strongly suggesting that those clusters are innate. Flank by psychological questionaries establishing correlations between the vultological clusters and self-reported cognition.
You can say that you're sceptical but if you say that that's not doing science then I don't know what to tell you, either.
You can say that you're sceptical but if you say that that's not doing science then I don't know what to tell you, either.
Isn't skepticism the bedrock of science? The scientific method (heavily simplified) requires a hypothesis, predictions based on that hypothesis, and then testing of those predictions. I don't see any predictive power in the MBTI matrix, which means it's unfalsifiable. This is different than your twins example, where you can predict certain characteristics of the results.
Psychology and predictive power are two things you should never use in the same sentence if you don't want to give psychologists an existential crisis. The mind is a chaotic system (as in chaos theory), to draw a parallel to physics the best psychology can do is say "this double pendulum will only swing within a certain radius": True, no doubt, but also somewhat unsatisfactory.
None of this will ever be "You're an ESTP therefore I predict you will be a base jumper". I mean if you look at base jumpers there's a fuckton of ESTPs there but even more of them are bus drivers or something completely random. Predicting, in this context, is more of the statistical kind. More like predicting someone's sex by their height, with the additional twist that we have to prove the existence of different sexes by there being a bimodal distribution in height.
Both CT and MBTI share the same root in Jungian function theory but they use different definitions, the CT ones are very precise, example: Sensing. MBTI as well as other systems have a very, very hard time actually agreeing on what type someone is, to a large degree I'd say those imprecise definitions are the cause. Even "vibe-typing" based on CT definitions and vultology will have more cross-examiner agreement than going with the formal MBTI tests.
But that doesn't mean that those definitions are miles apart -- as you see in the Sensing example, they do have some correspondence. Which means that while the type matrix between the two isn't identical, it's also not completely different. As such CT holding up to scrutiny would also mean MBTI holding up to scrutiny to the degree that it doesn't stray from CT too much.
Which is pretty much all just to say that comparing MBTI to astrology is kinda off-base. MBTI might be problematic in a hell a lot of ways but it's also not claiming that Mercury being in retrograde at the moment of your birth has any impact on you, that's just plain aphysical, MBTI makes no such claims. MBTI might be, as formulated, unfalsifiable, whereas astrology is right-out disproven.
Depends on the individual definition of skepticism.
Some people say, "hmm, I'm skeptical", and then do nothing after. That's not science. That's denial.
Some people say, "hmm, I'm skeptical", and then go look into stuff about that thing to make sure that the data they find confirmation or denies the thing they're skeptical about. That's science (the very very very beginning).
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
the pilot studies are quite promising
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I was thinking nbd charge a dollar cover fee and rent a venue or something.
Then I realized there isn’t even a stadium in the world large enough to host 1.5 million people. You’d have more friends than people that gather for a royal wedding. It’s an absolutely absurd amount of people.
1.5millions friend seems so hard to keep up and will soon drift away from everyone, leaving just a handful.
1.5million dollars tqvm.
You fool,
Choose 1.5 million friends, borrow 20 bucks from everyone, they are all glad they lost their friendship with you and it only cost them 20bucks, you get 30 million.
Yeah, 1.5m would mean no rent and no mortgage. Then I wouldn't have to worry about getting promotions in order to stay ahead of the property curve, and could relax at work.
Get one point five million friends to give you a dollar each. No biggie on their part, a buck's just a buck and they're your friends, after all.
Bruh, easily the 1.5 million friends, you can ask each for more than a dollar and never pay them back, so you lose the friends too, win win.
Id borrow a hundred from each and enjoy my 150 million
You don't think 1 friend will put that on social media that you're asking, and your plan immediately falls apart?
Now 1.5 million people think you're a gold digger
No booty sadly. You are being friendzoned by 1.5 million people.
Key word is friends, not best friends.
"I'VE GOT 1.5MILLION POWER IN RISE OF KINGDOMS"
1.5 mil. dollars easily.
Even in my best times I can't handle that much people or even remember them.
I'm INTP.
What's your type?
I guess Lemmy is filled with NT\NF types even more than Reddit.
I'm a Pisces.
The FLOSS community is full of ITs (no pun intended) regardless of N so no, probably not. Let me see. In a software company:
Then, bonus introverts:
Meyers Briggs is astrology for dorks.
Yeah it is, but we like funny letters and numbers.
You mean like calculating the relation between ♈ and ♋?
I don't like MBTI either, they've had a hundred years of opportunity to do science but never used it. They're a business selling coaching re-investing into marketing, not science. I'm merely using their abbreviations because they became a lingua franca.
MBTI being bunk doesn't mean that Jung didn't spot something real, though, even if he proved nothing and could only describe it fuzzily (he didn't even describe 16 types, but eight, based on primary cognitive function. In that rough model ISTPs and INTPs are one and the same which we definitely aren't). The whole of Psychological types is basically saying "hey guys there's something here we should have a look at it". Chapter 10 is the interesting one, the rest is... philology? It's the best proof he could muster back then give the man a break that was 100 years ago.
On the scientific front the best the typology community has right now is Juan E Sandoval's stuff, the pilot studies are quite promising but there's more theorycrafting to be done before applying for grants for properly-sized studies to then throw at the scientific establishment saying "prove us wrong".
In case of tl;dw: Consider embodied cognition, and following from that that cognitive operations are expressed outwardly by various gestures, suchlike, CT calls the lot of it vultology. Then make a taxonomy of markers, analyse a lot of video marking those things and throw statistics at the data, what you get out of that is bimodal distributions, showing that there's actual differences between people (that is, unlike Big5 axis which don't have bimodal distributions). Make a twin study, observe that twins share vultological clusters, strongly suggesting that those clusters are innate. Flank by psychological questionaries establishing correlations between the vultological clusters and self-reported cognition.
You can say that you're sceptical but if you say that that's not doing science then I don't know what to tell you, either.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
the pilot studies are quite promising
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Ironically, the best thing done to MBTI in the later years is 16personalities test. It's crude, it's stupid, but it did promote the idea and had this well-designed avatars, so it brought many people on the path of self-discovery.
But making it a science? Everyone was more occupied by selling it, than researching it.
There're also Socionics, an exUSSR bastard that rewire many things in MBTI, and is too focused on the idea of pairing types: https://mysocio.ru/ I find it a little deeper but more cringe.
Lets make a MBTI community and share memes ( ꈍᴗꈍ)
my best friends and I, all got either ENFP or INFP. Either they're really common or we are litterally the same
We are built different fr fr
@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Behavior rules:
Posting rules:
NSFW: NSFW content is permitted but it must be tagged and have content warnings. Anything that doesn't adhere to this will be removed. Content warnings should be added like: [penis], [explicit description of sex]. Non-sexualized breasts of any gender are not considered inappropriate and therefore do not need to be blurred/tagged.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact us on our matrix channel or email.
Other 196's:
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MBTI personality matrices are just astrology for a modern audience. Change my mind.
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