What are the highest quality search engines?

3 years ago by cll7793 to c/nostupidquestions

It is becoming near impossible to find relevant information from search engines. Duckduckgo, SearXNG, Bing, Google, and so many more mainstream engines have a significantly high noise to signal ratio, and it is getting worse.

Here are a collection of the best search engines I know, please add more to the list.

If no more high quality search engines exist, would it be possible to host your own?

EDIT: Some new discoveries. The addon uBlacklist and filters can block super SEO sites from appearing in search.

sandwichfiend 67 points 3 years ago

I find all the kagi mentions to be very suspicious

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Z4rK 25 points 3 years ago

It’s not, really, I switched from Google some years ago and had accepted my faith with DuckDuckGo, but then tried out Kagi. I use search so much daily for work, the relief of getting quality results again is immense and probably saves me hours per week. I get much better results from Kagi than I got at the end from Google, and I can tune them to my liking:

  • block Pinterest results when I search for images,
  • downprioritize shopping results,
  • rewrite all Reddit links to go to old.reddit.com,
  • unamp google AMP links
  • summarize long texts / documents
  • quick answer from the top 5 results

..and so on and so on. It’s just so effective.

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aldalire 6 points 3 years ago

… suspicious

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pineapplelover 5 points 3 years ago path: 0 6882929 6885211 6889714, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 1
Z4rK 3 points 3 years ago

Yeah there are some good solutions to achieve this, I’m a big fan of the libredirect project, but currently I’m just setting up the redirects I want directly in Kagi so any URLs in the search results are already rewritten to my liking.

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m_randall 23 points 3 years ago

I always fear it comes across that way when I recommend it to people here. I’m just a very happy user and want to see them succeed.

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cabbage 16 points 3 years ago

I find it expensive for what it is (given that I still get a limited number of searches) and I'm not comfortable with some of their ways (I don't want anything to do with AI, and I the idea they have of being nonpolitical seems dangerously naive to me). I also don't like supporting non-FOSS projects all that much.

Still, it's the best search I've found, and I'm paying every month until I find something better. It's worth it.

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Potatos_are_not_friends 13 points 3 years ago

If I had stock/investments in a search engine, you better fucking believe Id also have a bunch of bots crawling for the terms "What is the best search engine" and immediately hijack the convo with bots upvoting my search engine.

I cannot explain how easy it is to do this.

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cll7793 3 points 3 years ago

Your comment belongs higher. When given the opportunity to make money by social media advertising sometimes in the thousands or millions, companies, share holders, and conflict of interest groups take it. Cablemod's burning adapters, cryptocurrency scams, payed positive youtube reviews are some great examples. In general there is no honor system and its best to assume anything that can be abused will.

Also manipulating votes is incredibly effective towards swaying public opinion due to the bandwagon effect. Spend a days worth of effort making fake accounts and downvoting any opinion you see as undesirable and most people will follow suit. This is especially bad in echo chambers like on twitter, reddit, etc.

I wish a broader audience could be aware of this. The best I can do is try to spread the word.

Sources:

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sir_reginald 10 points 3 years ago

same. specially considering how privacy invasive kagi is.

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jcrabapple 9 points 3 years ago

How is it privacy invasive?

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TheMinions -2 points 3 years ago

I know nothing about Kagi, except that it requires an account and is paid. So I assume all searches are tied to that account and there is no way to do an anonymous search.

Disregard I’m a fool

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Rexios 4 points 3 years ago

We care about data protection: We will be good stewards of any personal information you share with us. We do not log or associate searches with an account. More at our privacy policy.

Literally the first paragraph on their website

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ClassyHatter 2 points 3 years ago

How is it privacy invasive? For example, compared to competition like Google?

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dwalin 8 points 3 years ago

Not op, nor i have any experience with kagi, but i suspect there is no way to do an Anonymous search with kagi.

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sir_reginald 3 points 3 years ago

copypasting the other comment I made in this thread:

and am I supposed to believe such a bold claim? the only reason they give is "trust me, bro. I pinky promise I'm not logging anything".

You have one account, every search query you make is associated with that account. And even if they aren't selling that ultra sensitive data, I'm sure they are keeping logs to prevent abuse and fix bugs which could be used when a third party gains access to their servers (malicious actors, law enforcement, etc).

And that's assuming that Kagi is not mining and or selling any data themselves, which is a bold assumption given how little we know about their proprietary product. If at least they published the source code, but no. I'm supposed to trust a proprietary black box which could potentially be linking every search query back to me.

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DeadlineX 1 point 3 years ago

I don’t have any skin in this game. I just wanted to point out that you went from “given how privacy invasive this particular entity is”

To

“… assuming… how little we know… could potentially”

That’s a pretty big leap from a bold and confident assertion that an entity is doing something all the way to saying that entity maybe could be doing something but we don’t know. It’s just a weird logical leap to me, and I felt compelled to mention it.

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moon 8 points 3 years ago

I'm glad I'm finally not the only one feeling this way. I've been seeing them aggressively pushed seemingly out of the blue for months now. Especially for what is such an awful deal and zero evidence to their claims, just citing the marketing page at face value.

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jcrabapple 2 points 3 years ago

Why? It's a great search engine that a lot of people find extremely useful.

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ultranaut 1 point 3 years ago

I've mentioned it a few times because it's actually good.

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NeoNachtwaechter 49 points 3 years ago

Technically the best one was Altavista.

But they are long gone because they came from the old academic & idealistic internet and they never learned to survive in that internet where money rules.

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Deceptichum 26 points 3 years ago

From a very old memory, Google blew AltaVista out of the water no?

I mean we all switched for a reason and it wasn’t the cute logo.

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cosmicrookie 11 points 3 years ago

I believe yahoo killed altvista before google came and finished it off

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cll7793 14 points 3 years ago

Altavista was ahead of their time. The modern internet desperately needs a technical search engine.

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kd45 41 points 3 years ago
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drahardja 32 points 3 years ago

DDG is ok for most searches, but they have definitely hit a plateau. Programming search results are quite poor, for instance.

I’ve started paying for kagi. Their results are just way better at this point.

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Scrollone 10 points 3 years ago

I don't live in the US and the regional results for my country are worse on DuckDuckGo than on Google.

But still, I noticed Google's quality drastically falling down in recent years.

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sir_reginald 8 points 3 years ago

It is as useless. After all, it's just Bing. But if the results are good enough for you, then why bother finding something else.

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Cinner 6 points 3 years ago

Some results come from Bing.

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sir_reginald 1 point 3 years ago

most are. just do a side by side comparison. for most queries it's literally the same results.

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cll7793 5 points 3 years ago

Hmm, I did notice a sudden severe drop in quality recently. Perhaps they are A/B testing something.

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ares35 8 points 3 years ago

ddg has been going downhill for awhile now. they changed something significant a couple years back that just made results, especially after the first half-page, absolute shit.

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sir_reginald 3 points 3 years ago

I think it was because they dropped Yandex results.

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overcast5348 2 points 3 years ago

It's not as bad as Google yet, but I find myself getting terrible or no results quite a few times.

Ex: if I'm looking for a niche blog post from example.com, just entering the keywords doesn't return the right result, if anything at all. I have to add "site:example.com" and the right link shows up on top.

It's kinda amusing when this happens, but I keep using ddg anyway because bing and Google had the same issue for the same keywords when I ran into the issue.

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Hildegarde 2 points 3 years ago

Ddg cannot filter out results. If you don't want pages containing the term, term you add -term to your search and those results should not be included.

Ddg doesn't do this. I did a brief test of many search engines, and only google and mojeek filtered results correctly.

Edit: yadex seems to have working filtering.

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amio 15 points 3 years ago

Google doesn't do that properly anymore, either, much like the "literal search" (quotes) - used to work, now it's a crap shoot.

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sonovebitch 22 points 3 years ago path: 0 6875035, hotness: undefined, score: 22, children: 3
aldalire 4 points 3 years ago

Correct answer

Why pay for a search engine? I’m getting tired of Kagi astroturfing

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cll7793 2 points 3 years ago

Thank you!

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walter_wiggles 1 point 3 years ago

Ooo this looks super interesting

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andrew_bidlaw 17 points 3 years ago

Yandex was way better for searches in russian sources, but it came to shit just like google and also excludes whatever russian government don't like at that point. I searched for some software in it multiple timea and the first link was some noname, probably malware site. It also promotes it's own malware like browser with questionable russian security sertificates and their own Alexa. I'd honestly not include it in any list.

I like DDG and don't switch from it that much. I've also heard Kagi as paid search engine is good, but I've never tried it.

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DolphinMath 17 points 3 years ago

Here are some options I use in my rotation.

Brave Search (skip the browser)

Mojeek

Qwant (French)

Yandex (Russian)

Mullvad Leta (Mullvad VPN subscription required)

MetaGer (German meta search)

Startpage (Private Google results)

DuckDuckGo (Private Bing results)

SearXNG and similar self hosted options are awesome, but I’ve found them unreliable.

Be skeptical of Kagi… It’s promoted pretty heavily around here for something that’s not FOSS.

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moon 18 points 3 years ago

I'm convinced at this point that Kagi is astroturfing on Lemmy, it's unnatural. All they do is just cite the marketing page when questioned about the quality, or as to why they supposedly think it's worth paying for compared to much more mature as-driven services that do respect your privacy.

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nadir 3 points 3 years ago

I think you meant to write ass-driven

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ratman150 -5 points 3 years ago

I've been using Kagi for 3 months now I think? And I've found it to be extremely useful for research...to a point, my only real issue is that after the first or so series of results it either doesn't offer anything further or just no longer is showing relevant results to my search. Honestly though I've been very happy with Kagi and continue to pay the 10/month but if I do find something even better I'd happily switch. I'm not married to any particular search engine (well ....least not to the extent of using Google services).

If you're skeptical just give it a try I think they have a trial system in place.

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cheribbit 2 points 3 years ago

THANK YOU for mentioning startpage! I have not heard of them but I haven't liked using DDG very much so I've begrudgingly using google in private mode (and then I always forget to switch back and forth)

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hai 1 point 3 years ago

Took wayyy to long to find something not recommending Kagi.

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kool_newt 16 points 3 years ago
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Toes 16 points 3 years ago

I've found duckduckgo works fine for things that aren't recent.

Controversially the bing gpt chat bot works alarming well.

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abbadon420 5 points 3 years ago

The bing chat bot scares me a bit. I don't want to use bing out of principle, but at this point they're just flirting too damn hard.

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SpaceNoodle -3 points 3 years ago

DDG is just Bing, so ...

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Toes 1 point 3 years ago

Are you a bot?

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SpaceNoodle -1 points 3 years ago

Are you?

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Toes 1 point 3 years ago

Haha I wish, it's just your response seems like you didn't read the message.

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Krucian 12 points 3 years ago

I self host a searxng instance and I find the combination of bing, duckduckgo and qwant as the source engines to return decent results. You can use a public instance and choose those engines in settings.

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Squizzy 4 points 3 years ago

I'm specifically looking to replace DDG, they have really dropped in quality lately and are very clearly going back on their word for not having you in a bubble with specific to you results.

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cll7793 3 points 3 years ago

I found public instances often have issues connecting to many search engines at once, will look into self hosting it. Thanks!

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Ninjazzon 11 points 3 years ago path: 0 6880804, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0
Crafter72 10 points 3 years ago

For everyone who uses searxng, is it great for day to day browsing? Do I require to host my own instance or the setup is as easy as requiring to add "searxng" option on my browser app?

I'm interested to move away from google as it becomes shitty everyday and loses its effectiveness for advanced query (based on my own result compared during 2013 up to pre covid). Bing have weird result on my region so cannot use it, ddg only for occasional use.

Thanks!

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Tangent5280 7 points 3 years ago

pick a host from searx.space

Might be a good idea to bookmark this too because sometimes some hosts go down.

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Crafter72 1 point 3 years ago

Appreciate it, will read more in documentations 👍🏽

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Snapz 9 points 3 years ago

Is "super SEO sites" a catch all term for those 99% filler websites that have a tomato soup recipe (in theory) but actually start out with, "Historical evidence seems to suggest that the tomato was first cultivated in the territory that would eventually become Guam back in 1464..."

I've wondered if we had a common reference term for those? I wish it didn't have a positive connotation though...

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Inucune 4 points 3 years ago

Those plus sites that are lists of buzz words that have nothing to do with the actual site.

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1984 7 points 3 years ago

Kagi is the highest quality for sure. There isn't a better one, I have tried all of them except perplexity, and that's more like chat gpt rather than search.

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chirospasm 7 points 3 years ago

Even though there's a small monthly cost, the results have been consistent for Kagi. But consistency meets only half of my needs for search: I also want to make decisions quickly from what I find within the contents. If I were to to go to a link, wait for it to load, scroll the content, etc. -- does that listed forum post have the answer I am looking for? Does this news article cover the nuances I have been tracking and would like to read more of? Kagi offers an AI-based summarize feature that helps. And that's been meeting the other half of my needs, as well.

EDIT, an opinion: Search services may well be eventually replaced by small, niche LLMs trained to perform summerization tasks, such as Consensus, which I have used for work research, and Perplexity.ai. The AI summarize feature of Kagi is why I see the service as more useful than straight indexes, even when self-hosted. Kagi is a stepping stone toward this for me, and why I recommend it.

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xbit00 1 point 3 years ago

The ability to summarize pages directly on the search results page is a big win for me. I also use the kagi summarizer several times a day to summarize youtube videos that I'm interested in but don't want to sit through the whole video.

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Yoz -4 points 3 years ago

Lol kagi bots spotted!

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chirospasm 7 points 3 years ago

Beep boop, my dude.

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cll7793 1 point 3 years ago path: 0 6887451 6895261 6895751 6922297, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
wahming 6 points 3 years ago

How WOULD you differentiate bots from happy users, anyway? They certainly look like organic accounts to me

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DrFuggles 6 points 3 years ago

A 7 months old random fediverse account is a bot? You know that the entirety of the fediverse is like 0.001 percent of the user base of the social media giants?

That would be money really badly spent on astro-turfing bots.

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Yoz -2 points 3 years ago

Ooooh that's crazy. Why are people not joining fediverse ? I think we need some marketing people to band together and create easy guides on how to sign up and share it on Facebook, YouTube etc

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m_randall 6 points 3 years ago

Come on over to Kagi! You do have to pay but I use a search engine dozens of times per day so I’m not too bothered by it.

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cll7793 7 points 3 years ago

I've heard a lot of great things about Kagi, though the search limit and subscription is a little off-putting. A self-hosted Kagi would be amazing though!

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ClassyHatter 10 points 3 years ago

Kagi has a free trial, 100 searches for free, so you can try it out and see if you like it or not.

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1984 9 points 3 years ago

Why would they do all that work to create a better search engine than Google and give it away for free? What is going to pay their bills?

Google pays their bills by selling your data and spying on your searches, not to mention they are morally corrupt. Kagi pays their bills with your monthly sub. Seems a lot better.

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cll7793 19 points 3 years ago

I'm worried eventually even Kagi will get enshittified. It has been a common trend that almost always occurs. Open source is the only way to ensure stability. Conflict of interest is what leads to companies either overcharging, or even accepting to get bought out.

Don't get me wrong, Kagi seems to be a great company thus far! But for something as important as search it would be best to have an open source solution.

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1984 5 points 3 years ago

Probably they will, but it could take a long time. Valve is still good as an example of a company that managed to not become crap.

Open source is the only way to provide stability? Can you explain more about this?

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Lith 1 point 3 years ago

At this point, I've come to expect that all of the products I like are going to be ruined at some point, so it's about establishing enough independence to more easily transition to the next service.

Kagi's great, and I'll worry about finding a better search engine once it gets worse, but I don't expect that to happen before my next renewal, so I'm happy.

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nilloc 3 points 3 years ago

Plus self hosting an index big enough and fast enough for a useful search engine is ridiculous.

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m_randall 3 points 3 years ago

They now have unlimited searches for $10/mo. That’s what got me to try it out.

You are correct though. I really do not like having all of my search history tied to my credit card (and then me). What helps me justify that is that instead of me being the product like google, by paying I’ve become the customer. Hopefully that incentivizes keeping them on the up and up.

I did come across searnxg in this thread. It looks like that can be self hosted so I’m gonna give that a try as well.

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Maalus 11 points 3 years ago

That's expensive as shit, what the hell.

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Z4rK 3 points 3 years ago

Yeah, you may be fine with the $5 plan, but that’s the lowest tier available.

Afaik they are not really running a profit yet, just expanding, so that’s an eye opener to how expensive it is to run a search business and how much value Google and others estimate they get from your personal information.

For now though their user base seems fairly much leaning towards business users that can defend this expense as part of becoming more effective professionally. Hopefully over time they’ll grow large enough to provide cheaper plans for regular persons while staying privacy focused and ad free.

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m_randall 1 point 3 years ago

I did 1300 queries which I think would put it at .007 cents per query. Sounds reasonable to me.

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clmbmb 1 point 3 years ago

Not when they collaborate with brave. Fuck that!

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xigoi 1 point 3 years ago

They don’t “collaborate” with Brave, just use its search API.

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Deceptichum -6 points 3 years ago

The owner of Kagi is a homophobic piece of shit.

Just use searxng.

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1984 5 points 3 years ago

If you are going to look for perfect companies, you will look forever, and probably use Google while you are looking.

It's not worth it. Just use something better than Google even if it's flawed, because everything had flaws.

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Deceptichum 0 points 3 years ago

Just use searxng.

Don’t give money to homophobes, we have an open source and better alternative already.

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GregorGizeh 5 points 3 years ago

Kagi isn’t homophobic. Apparently the "controversy" is that it employs brave search as well; which is indeed made by a company with a homophobic ceo.

Though by that logic virtually everyone in the world is. Because at some point in time, in some place, someone built a piece of modern civilization upon knowledge or resources belonging to a homophobic person, I’m fairly sure.

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1984 -6 points 3 years ago

I think it's perfectly understandable that some people are homophobes, so it doesn't worry me. You still have people being afraid of black people in this age even.

You can dislike that of course, but that's the real world. You can walk up to any older person and they are likely to be a lot less open to gay marriage than a younger person also.

You interpret that as them being hostile. I think it's more about being afraid of something that doesn't feel natural to them.

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xigoi 1 point 3 years ago

Where did you get that from?

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Deceptichum -2 points 3 years ago

It’s all over the Mastodon side of the Fediverse, shouldn’t be too hard to find with a quick search. I’m not at my pc atm so cbf using a phone to find some links sorry.

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xigoi 7 points 3 years ago

The controversy was about Kagi using search API from Brave, whose CEO is supposedly homophobic. Not Kagi’s CEO himself being homophobic.

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silverhand 4 points 3 years ago
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MikeT -1 points 3 years ago

I've been slowly pivoting toward Perplexity.AI as the search engine. It basically does what I do, search + find the resources and summarize it but it is automatic with Perplexity.AI.

I rather pay them 20$ because that is saving me time a lot (and time is money in my case). Kagi's search is okay but I can get nearly the same by using ublocklist on Bing or DDG for my use case.

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Varyk 3 points 3 years ago

I mostly use bing now. I like that it can answer complex queries and provides sources.

Don't have much trouble not finding things.

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zeluko 2 points 3 years ago

Its nice when you are deep in Microsoft already from your company and get BingChat Enterprise included anyways.
Its slower than OpenAI GPT4 at times and its alot more restricted, but it gets the job done mostly.
You need to hack the UI to make it nice, unlock longer inputs, disable search tool at-will, disable synthetic streaming responses (consistent token speed, but takes longer overall)

Simple query via DDG, complex stuff and ChatBot stuff via BingChat Enterprise.

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Varyk 1 point 3 years ago

I thought the AI assistant was free? I just downloaded the bang app and I just use the AI assistant whenever I search for anything now.

I don't use any sort of enterprise, or full disclosure know what any of the other things you said are, any of those options or parameters.

But bing's really impressed me lately, haha, so I still use it.

Actually on my desktop, I just use the regular Bing search, which I do now find superior to Google for just finding quick accurate answers for basic stuff.

It's still crazy to me a year later after switching all my default search engines to Bing after using Google for so long, but Google search is just such trash now, it's insane.

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zeluko 1 point 3 years ago

It is free, but the Enterprise version doesnt store anything (not even usage statitistics) and runs on separate systems (allegedly) aswell as having no limits.

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Varyk 1 point 3 years ago

Oh, I see, yeah that does sound way better

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aldalire 2 points 3 years ago
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TonyOstrich 7 points 3 years ago

Why pay? I think the answer is pretty easy. If one doesn't want to self host. Running any kind of web based service costs the person running it money. Google obviously makes money off of a user doing searches via adds and data collection. I would actually have no issue paying for certain Google services if it meant that as a paying customer they would not double dip and try and profit off the data they are collecting on me.

This is all coming from a person who has a server rack in my basement and multiple PCs scattered throughout my home, so I am no stranger to self hosting.

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laverabe 1 point 3 years ago

I would actually have no issue paying for certain Google services

Excuse me sir, do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior, Richard Stallman?

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aldalire 1 point 3 years ago

People have spare pc’s or laptops they can sacrifice as a SearxNG instance. I too have a homelab & i have not paid a single penny to have a hobby SearxNG instance on my old hackbook pro that I share with friends.

I feel like, the internet is more than just paying your way for services. It’s about creating and sharing services and decentralization. If Kagi takes off then we have another evil Google that wants to profit at the cost of users, but its name is Kagi. It might be an impractical answer, and it does take some work to create a better internet. End of philosophical rant about the true spirit of the internet

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CubbyTustard 3 points 3 years ago
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Pounddc1 0 points 3 years ago
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9up999 0 points 3 years ago

I like the french one "qwant".

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0oWow -16 points 3 years ago

Brave Search works really well for me, and they have AI responses at the top of the page now that are really good.

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DolphinMath 1 point 3 years ago

Not sure why you got downvoted like crazy, but Brave legitimately has a great search engine. It also uses its own crawlers unlike DDG, Startpage or Kagi who are really just meta search engines piggybacking off other companies’ results.

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0oWow 2 points 3 years ago

Good thing I wasn't replying to the down voters. OP got my response and that is what I wanted. 🙂

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cll7793 1 point 3 years ago

Thanks! Never given brave a try before

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