will ad-blockers in chromium follow suit when chrome discontinues them?

2 years ago by Andrew Zabar to c/linux

Hey all, I was about to setup uBlock Origin in chromium, when I saw the notice that it may soon be ended due to not following best practices, etc. I looked this up and some articles and posts state that Chrome is discontinuing content blockers / ad blockers soon. Will this apply to the chromium app in Linux?

Other than for testing purposes, my usage of Chromium is for the ability to make some sites into webApps. I just like some to be isolated with their own window and icon. The standard response I see to pretty much anyone is that they should switch to Firefox and stop wanting the webApp. I saw some comments that Firefox does not and will not implement webApps due to some security issues (?? not sure why). I don't understand how it is difficult just make a standalone window with a custom icon choice. I see no reason that has to compromise anything at all, but I am not a developer.

I'm getting off-track here. So, is Chromium going to go the way Google wants it to go for Chrome? It was my understanding that Chromium is kind of an offshoot and not just up to Google in terms of its course. Will we be able to use extensions that Google doesn't want, and have to get them from a new repository instead of the chrome web store?

Any insight on this would be appreciated, thanks.

hades 81 points 2 years ago

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Sbauer 11 points 2 years ago

There are a couple interesting browser these days, for example floorp. It’s always interesting to check who is behind a browser, in the case of floorp it’s a Japanese company which I like.

They might still pull a corporate fast one on you, but at least they will apologise profusely over it. It’s also genuinely a nice browser, obviously fully open source and privacy focused. I think it’s a nice filter between my browser and mozilla which lost some trust from me over time.

https://floorp.app/en

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lord_ryvan 6 points 2 years ago

They might still pull a corporate fast one on you, but at least they will apologise profusely over it.

I've never seen Nintendo or Sony apologise for it.

I feel like the whole apologising profusely thing is a stereotype about Japanese people, maybe with a core of truth in it, but it doesn't seem to apply to their corporate culture.

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HowManyNimons 1 point 2 years ago

Please understand.

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Eyck_of_denesle 3 points 2 years ago

Floorps pwa is still behind tge pwa extension. I wish it provided different prifiles for each pwa.

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fmstrat 5 points 2 years ago

You got me so excited, your comment needs an edit. PWAs are not supported on Firefox desktop. The article even says so. It recommends an extension that is super janky requiring manual CSS edits to files in the FF folder, and multiple profiles. (from experience).

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Vincent 4 points 2 years ago

Desktop web apps are being looked at though, so there's that!

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hades 2 points 2 years ago

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Sbauer 30 points 2 years ago

They are deprecating the underlying technology(called manifest V2 or MV2 for short) and replacing it with a different one(MV3) that lacks some of the capabilities for some kind of adblocking.

So yeah, it’s pretty much dead on chromium. The developers of brave have commited to provide a best effort support for their browser though: https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/

Firefox on the other end has no intention of deprecating support for MV2 so any browsers based on that are fine. Keep in mind MV3 supports some adblocking and some Adblockers have already moved to it, it’s just a lesser extent.

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walthervonstolzing 17 points 2 years ago

There's a less capable Mv3 port of uBlock Origin by the original developer, called 'uBlock Origin Lite': https://chromewebstore.google.com/...

I use Chromium only very rarely, so I don't know how effective it is, though.

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Bitrot 12 points 2 years ago

It’s effective for probably most typical users (set it and forget it), especially if you “up” the permissions. Downside is the filter rules have to be bundled in the extension, so it doesn’t update dynamically.

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WhiteOakBayou 5 points 2 years ago

I used it on a relatives computer recently. On streaming sports sites it got about 90% of ads but did miss the transparent overlays that open a new page when clicked. UbO handles all of that just fine.

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AndrewZabar 2 points 2 years ago

Yeah I saw it.

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linearchaos 7 points 2 years ago

Brave and Vivaldi have both mentioned they intend to support V2 ongoing.

Brave was more like screw them we got this.

Vivaldi was hesitant and said they would do it as long as they could.

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pupbiru 5 points 2 years ago

worth clarifying though afaik brave has said they won’t remove v2; not that they will continue to support it… ie if there’s a breaking change in upstream chromium, i’m not sure i have confidence that they’ll spend a bunch of time working around it

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Vincent 3 points 2 years ago

It's also not clear how long they'd be able to keep that up anyway, given... https://techcrunch.com/...

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linearchaos 3 points 2 years ago

They also specifically said the way they block ads is not relative to V2 or V3. They said that even if V2 is completely destroyed they will still have the same ad blocking they have now.

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Engywuck 3 points 2 years ago

In the case of Brave (or Vivaldi, to a certain extent) it doesn't matter too much, as it has a very capable built-in adblocker. It's not an extension, so it is not going to be weakened by MV3.

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lord_ryvan -5 points 2 years ago

Firefox on the other end has no intention of deprecating support for MV2

Why would they? They also don't implement MV2, but their own addon spec. nvm they do

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Sbauer 4 points 2 years ago

https://blog.mozilla.org/...

Go tell them.

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lord_ryvan 1 point 2 years ago

I could've sworn... Alright TIL thanks!

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leopold 13 points 2 years ago

MV3 doesn't make adblockers impossible, only less effective. It's important to note that MV3 has changed a fair bit since the initial controversy and isn't quite as limiting as it used to be. The fact that adblockers will lose some functionality at all is still a dealbreaker for me and many others which I thankfully won't have to deal with as a Firefox user, but it isn't going to kill adblockers on Chrome and most users will probably just install an MV3-compatible adblocker and move on with their day.

uBlock Origin's developers don't seem to want to make a proper MV3 port, which is fair because they'd probably have to rewrite most of the extension, but they did create the far more minimal uBlock Orgin Lite, which a lot of people have taken to be an attempt at porting uBlock Origin to MV3. It isn't that. On top of MV3's limitations, it also makes the decision to work within these self-imposed restrictions:

No broad host permissions at install time -- extended permissions are granted explicitly by the user on a per-site basis.

Entirely declarative for reliability and CPU/memory efficiency.

These aren't MV3 limitations, just a thing Gorhill decided to do. See the FAQ. You can get much closer to uBlock Origin within MV3's constraints than uBlock Origin Lite does. Right now, the best option appears to be AdGuard, which has been making a true best-effort attempt at porting their adblocker to MV3 pretty much since the announcement.

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AndrewZabar 10 points 2 years ago

Hey, the moment it becomes less than the best, I’m out lol. I guess it’s goodbye chromium.

It’s actually not what I was using; I was using nativefier to make webapp using electron. I guess I’m just gonna ditch all these ideas and just stick to Firefox and that’s it.

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Telorand 12 points 2 years ago

So, is Chromium going to go the way Google wants it to go for Chrome? It was my understanding that Chromium is kind of an offshoot and not just up to Google in terms of its course.

I would be surprised if it doesn't. Chromium isn't an offshoot, it is the primary base of Chrome; it is a Google project at its core, and they essentially fund and build upon the open source efforts of the community to make Chrome.

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AndrewZabar 12 points 2 years ago

Ah ok. So they just want to eliminate the entire concept of ad blocking. Kinda desperate act.

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Telorand 10 points 2 years ago

If ever there was a good case to abandon Chrome, it's these actions.

I would have less problem with advertising if it wasn't multiple, full-coverage, 30-sec video ads in a row alongside malvertisements that only get caught after a user reports them. If they're gonna serve me garbage, I don't have to let them shove it in my face.

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AndrewZabar 4 points 2 years ago

Yep, it’s kinda the last straw. I don’t do ads, period.

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Findmysec 11 points 2 years ago

I wonder how ungoogled-chromium is faring?

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Chewy7324 7 points 2 years ago

They are evaluating different ways to continue to support ad blocking. E.g. "unbraving" Brave Browser, or just implementing their adblock-rust.

They most likely won't support MV2, since it would get increasingly difficult with each update to Chromium.

https://github.com/...

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BobDolesBBallHandle 9 points 2 years ago

Here is another concerning reason to not use Chrome.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/...

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FrostyCaveman 5 points 2 years ago

Isolated web apps… ewww

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GenderNeutralBro 8 points 2 years ago

Chromium itself will. Other Chromium-based browser vendors have confirmed that they will maintain v2 support for as long as they can. So perhaps try something like Vivaldi. I haven't tried PWAs in Vivaldi myself, but it supports them according to the docs.

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Bitrot 8 points 2 years ago

The problem with most of them, is they don’t host their own extension repositories, so their support doesn’t really matter unless you side load all the time.

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dev_null 1 point 2 years ago

It's not like getting Ublock Origin from the official website instead of the Chrome Web Store is some kind of a problem.

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Bitrot 1 point 2 years ago

Do you sideload extensions in Chromium browsers often? No browser makes it especially easy, auto-updates are hit and miss (uBo has a zip from GitHub, does that auto update?), and it’s extremely likely that many authors don’t bother with special niche development when the vast majority of their user-base is gone (he doesn’t build an XUL version anymore either).

It’s, in fact, some kind of problem even if it isn’t for you.

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AndrewZabar 1 point 2 years ago

I have Vivaldi installed mayhap I’ll give it a try.

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Trent 0 points 2 years ago

Vivaldi is pretty nice and was my main browser until the announcement about MV3, but Vivaldi isn't going to support it beyond whenever google removes MV2 from the source (IIRC, Vivaldi folks expected it around June next year). But I saw the way the wind was blowing and decided to jump ship while I could still do it and take my own sweet time doing so. In retrospect, glad I did. Still miss some features like markdown notes and sidebar web pages, but it's still better than being buried in ads.

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RmDebArc_5 4 points 2 years ago

You can use webapp Manager to get web apps for Firefox and apparently official PWA support is also coming

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AndrewZabar 3 points 2 years ago

Nice! Thanks.

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lord_ryvan 1 point 2 years ago

I can vouch for this, I've used this a lot and I love it!

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uzay 2 points 2 years ago

Another approach to webapps in Firefox is to create separate browser profiles and create shortcuts for them.

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lordnikon 2 points 2 years ago

Firefox supports containers tabs built in under settings enable container tabs

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uzay 1 point 2 years ago

Which does not give them their own window and icon though.

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lordnikon 1 point 2 years ago

you can if you pick a site and select always open this site in this container then make shortcuts that opens for each site. it will automatically open the correct containers for each icon

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cerement 1 point 2 years ago

Firefox *might* be *thinking* about bringing back webapps: How can Firefox create the best support for web apps on the desktop?

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rzlatic -5 points 2 years ago

so you have to decide: you want websites inside their own window with a nice icon, or you want to get ridd of ads.

if the first is imperative to you, the choice is simple. watch ads.

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AndrewZabar 3 points 2 years ago

Yeah clearly that’s the choice. It’s not a huge deal obviously I’m just using the sites in Firefox I was just hoping chromium was a possibility.

The thing is, we (you know, us) are very dependent upon Firefox and their management has really exhibited some stubbornness in the recent years with regard to some issues that the user-base really don’t agree with. No I’m not citing examples I just have encountered this more than once or twice in the recent years with a variety of issues.

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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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