lemmy.fmhy.ml's stance on defederation

3 years ago by zinklog to c/freemediaheckyeah

Following the announcement by beehaw admins to defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, there has been many posts and messages regarding that decisions and what other instances will do.

I personally believe Lemmy/kbin can only thrive if there is a free flow of content between different instances, with instance admins taking a back seat and focusing more on the infrastructure and making sure the technical bugs are smoothened out. Community mods can moderate their communities, and users can block the communities they don't find appealing (there's even a toggle in settings to hide every NSFW post from your feed altogether).

We don't want to create walled gardens, nor do we want to make Lemmy more confusing than it already is for new users. We will not be defederating from any instance if there is even one good community on it that our instance users might find useful. So far we have only blocked lemmygrad.ml, and right now we have no plans to block anyone else.

Rottcodd 101 points 3 years ago

I just want to be able to control what I see. I have no desire to control what other people see and I sure as fuck don't want other people to control what I see.

That's it. That's my entire position on the matter.

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JasSmith 48 points 3 years ago

I am dismayed with how many people want to control what others can see.

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Sexypink -6 points 3 years ago

Yeah that's why it's not going to last here. Like honestly I'm going to leave eventually because it's really annoying and it kills the experience for me and it just makes me want to argue with everybody to how judgmental and asinine they are

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variants_of_concern 20 points 3 years ago

this makes me want to spin up my own instance just for myself to follow other communities, I guess that would be the best way to do it

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atzanteol 4 points 3 years ago

Beehaw defederated because of users, not communities though. They wanted to control who could comment, not what people could see.

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Rottcodd 5 points 3 years ago

Their intent is irrelevant to my point.

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dart 51 points 3 years ago

Just throwing my opinion in... Since we can block communities on our own, we don't really need someone to decide which to block for us. I mean, it's not my instance, so you can do whatever you want, and I actually might've decided to block lemmygrad.ml myself, but I'd still rather see the posts and make that determination myself.

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amcjv12 21 points 3 years ago

Completely agree with this. I can block anything I don't want to see, and I'd rather not have someone else decide that for me

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MisterFrog 5 points 3 years ago

Can you blanket block comments from other instances users?

I am not a fan of Beehaw's decision, but I can't a setting where you can actually do this.

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amcjv12 1 point 3 years ago

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think so

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areyouevenreal 9 points 3 years ago

I think the issue here people posting things in BeeHaw's communities that they don't want. The only way to stop that is to block users on a case by case basis, and since people can create unlimited free accounts this is ineffective given the low numbers of mods they have. The only way to work around this was to ban the two instances that had the most bad actors and easy registration.

I have floated the idea of a whitelist of users for their communities, but have been informed this isn't supported by Lemmy at the moment.

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inventa 39 points 3 years ago

Thanks for this. It's recomforting and makes me thing I chose the right instance to sign up

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SirD_P 6 points 3 years ago

aye, if kbin.social proves to walk the fediverse path I'm happy to call this my home

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Watcher 37 points 3 years ago

In my point of view it's a kind of censorship. Just let the user himself decide what he wants to see.

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MisterFrog -76 points 3 years ago

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're a second language speaker where "user" is a masculine noun, but other genders exist lol. I encourage you to use "themselves" instead.

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Woozy 37 points 3 years ago

Akchually, since we're being annoyingly corrective, shouldn't it be "themself"?

OR is it able-ist to assume the commentor does not express multiple personalities?

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MisterFrog 6 points 3 years ago

Yeah I guess I reordered it "Just let the user decide themselves..." in my head.

As I guessed the commenter was a German speaker. This is a very common occurrence and not something malicious (check like every boardgame from Germany referring to "the player" as "he"), just lost in translation.

Never meant to be annoying or holier-than-thou, people can genuinely misunderstand that it's some sexist remark, and so I pointed it out. Just said it so the commenter hopefully isn't misunderstood in the future.

So, if you feel that's some woke-ass snowflake nonsense, be my guest lol

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Tb0n3 2 points 3 years ago

On the internet whoever you're conversing with is male unless explicitly stated. It really really does not matter since it's all just randos on the internet anyway. Please note the large number of down votes you got for actually caring.

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Kirpy 5 points 3 years ago

Lol... Alright take the upvote.

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Watcher 17 points 3 years ago

Yea okay. In German you mostly use the masculine noun

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MisterFrog 3 points 3 years ago

Yeah that's what I guessed! Alles gut :)

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hoshikarakitaridia 15 points 3 years ago

A bit facetious innit

Live and let live

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Joker 35 points 3 years ago

I will say that I sometimes like to visit controversial communities due to curiosity, and to be amazed at all the insane and braindead things people say. Furthermore, I don't like living in a bubble, and knowing what people I disagree with say/think is important to forming well-informed opinions. So sometimes I do like to subscribe to communities on even places like lemmygrad just for those reasons. It's annoying when instances block controversial instances, because controversy often interesting and very lurkable. I understand why those places are blocked, and I definitely don't want to see fascist bs on my feed all the time. But I wish I could have the best of both worlds.

I wanna decide what I get to see. It would be cool if the instances could be blocked on a followers-only basis. Like, blocked for the all feeds, blocked in general. But not for me if I follow it.

I actually chose this instance in large part because it only blocks one other one lol

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tehmics 4 points 3 years ago

I'll echo this sentiment. I also lurk communities that I don't agree with, and I want to see dissenting views. I find that heavy moderation often just leads to echo chambers where real issues can be kicked under the rug

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Tb0n3 3 points 3 years ago

Are we not capable of hiding things we don't want to see on Lemmy ourselves? Why would I want to be babysat by anyone when I can make adult choices on what I want to see my own damn self? Censorship was what ruined Reddit years ago. Leave it entirely up to the users.

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OldGitPhil 33 points 3 years ago

The problem at the moment is that the community moderation tools are pretty limited. At some point there will be coordinated attacks on some communities and the moderation tools are not yet sufficient to defend against that sort of thing.

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HonorableScythe 29 points 3 years ago

I sort of agree, but I also know that as Lemmy becomes more popular, defederating will become necessary as trolls and hate groups open instances. It's a problem on Mastodon. A trans friend there posted about her experience bra shopping and a bunch of transphobes from other Mastodon servers came in to attack her, including an admin of one server who called her a slur and told her to stop reporting because they'd never remove anything hateful towards trans people.

On a centralized service like Reddit, hate subs can just be quarantined by the admins or removed wholesale. With a decentralized service, every instance will need to defederate those groups to keep them out. There's no way to bar them from making a new server.

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dreadgoat 20 points 3 years ago

It's important to choose your home wisely.

I have an account here on kbin.social, but I also wanted a dedicated lemmy account. I chose fmhy because it aligns with what I want: hearing every voice, for better or for worse. I considered beehaw due to their large gaming community, but I read about their philosophy and saw that they were trying to create more of a safe space for their users (suspicion recently confirmed). If someone wants a more positive experience without having to worry about trolling and harassment, beehaw would be the better choice. I am personally fine with treading through sludge to find hidden gems, so I made my own choice.

Bear in mind that defederation isn't bidirectional. If beehaw decides to defederate fmhy, I don't care, I can still see gaming@beehaw and interact with users that live on instances still federated with my own. But the beehaw users are safe from from troll-friendly hosts, so everybody wins. This isn't true, as pointed out by zinklog. It can still be worked around by having accounts in multiple places, but even with the eventual account migration feature, this makes it impossible for anyone to see everything in any one place. Maybe this can be fixed in the future, as the fediverse continues to develop?

To directly map it to the example of your friend, if she chose to live on an instance more like beehaw, she would still be able to interact with the federated community at large, but be better shielded. If someone tried to throw slurs at her from an instance with a lower standard, she wouldn't see it at all, and the person delivering the slurs likely wouldn't even realize it.

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zinklog 10 points 3 years ago

Correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding that defederation is in fact bidirectional. lemmy.world can't see new posts from beehaw after the announcement.

Comment based on this post

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dreadgoat 2 points 3 years ago

You're right, I'm operating on a flawed understanding of how ActivityPub functions. I was uncertain the post, but the examples comment really makes it clear what the concrete consequences are of defederation. I will edit my post, thanks!

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Sexypink -2 points 3 years ago

Yeah that's what I thought too like they can still get all of the content but it's not the other way around

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possibly_engineered 1 point 3 years ago

I am still learning lemmy and had no idea that type of situation in your example could work like that. It's very intriguing.

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dreadgoat 2 points 3 years ago

unfortunately I was wrong, check my edited comment... but I do hope it can work this way in the future. There is no technical reason why a publisher needs to block its subscribers.

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Sexypink -2 points 3 years ago

What do you mean suspicion recently confirmed? Tell me I want to know

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dreadgoat 4 points 3 years ago

Beehaw recently defederated from lemmy.world, one of the largest instances. Their position is that they want to maintain a hand-curated safe space for their users, whereas lemmy.world is open to all.

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zinklog 11 points 3 years ago

I think it's different with Lemmy since people make posts in communities and it's in the community moderator's power to remove problematic comments.

If an entire instance supports or encourages such behaviour though, then you're right and such instances should be defederated.

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BrotherCod 6 points 3 years ago

And once again what stops the user from blocking them theirselves? People have the ability to block individuals and whole subdomains, why not do it theirselves?

What percentage of people have to be posting hate on a specific topic before a certain server decides to defederate them? I'm in no way advocating hate speech but what happens if you have a large server with just two instances causing trouble? The owner believes in free speech and doesn't want to block anything but there are dozens of other instances on that server that are behaving normally, with thousands of people using it daily? Do you block that server to your entire user base because of two instances? Do you make all of the other users on that instant suffer because of that? Or do you leave it up to your own users to make their own decisions?

Regardless of how this goes in the end I think the instance operators should have clear and open policies before people decide what servers they want to join to begin with.

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FermatsLastAccount 23 points 3 years ago

So far we have only blocked lemmygrad.ml, and right now we have no plans to block anyone else.

Why is lemmygrad blocked, but not exploding heads?

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mambabasa 9 points 3 years ago

Because lemmygrad is a tankie hellhole. They support all kinds of authoritarian nonsense.

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Mac 20 points 3 years ago

That doesn't answer the question.

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mambabasa 8 points 3 years ago

Sorry I didn't know what exploding heads was when I commented. That's also an authoritarian hellhole, and should also be blocked.

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yarr 3 points 3 years ago

because COMMUNISM

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tehmics 2 points 3 years ago

Is there a place to see what's blocked, and why?

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ondoyant 23 points 3 years ago

I think that structures that permit people and communities to do literally whatever they want is how lemmy can thrive. The people in beehaw (myself included) are on the whole perfectly chill with the defederation, and the specific reasons and conditions for that defederation. The admins have been open about the fact that they want more moderation tools for our community before refederating with those instances, it isn't a permanent state of affairs. I like beehaw. Its chill. Maybe other people wouldn't like that, but then maybe just don't host your account there? There are tons of other places to be. This isn't reddit, if you aren't inside beehaw, its management doesn't affect you.

Except for the fact that defederating is bidirectional at the moment. It would be nice if the platform's defederation and the user's defederation were less tied together, but as far as I can tell, the beehaw admins only defederated because there wasn't a compromise between "do nothing" and "ban everything" available to them.

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knife 22 points 3 years ago

thank you for not being a drama queen and railroading this whole thing by leveraging the small amount of power you have to make some bullshit point about your social views.

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Otome-chan 18 points 3 years ago

as a kbinaut, may I ask why everyone feels it's important to block lemmygrad? here on kbin we're still federated with them and things seem fine?

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GarlicFries 24 points 3 years ago

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Otome-chan 19 points 3 years ago

Yeah it's obvious they're straight up tankies over there. I just don't see a difference in opinion/views as grounds for defederation, though I guess some might feel that way.

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GarlicFries 4 points 3 years ago

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Otome-chan 7 points 3 years ago

I think there's a difference between "unmoderated" and "free speech". It's one thing to allow all views and discourse. it's another to just allow people to shit on the platform and degrade things due to unneeded hostility.

Like we don't need 4chan-tier stuff, but why is anyone who's slightly more conservative than "ultra progressive" instantly silenced?

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0x4E4F -13 points 3 years ago

Qick question: Do you worship god?

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GarlicFries 6 points 3 years ago

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0x4E4F -1 points 3 years ago

Yep, I worship Joe Pesci.

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0x4E4F 1 point 3 years ago

Because basically, everyone got scared from them being communists/socialists and just decided to defederate from them.

It's nothing more than fear based on years of propaganda pushed by western countries, nothing more. They don't defederate from anyone, yet everyone feels the need to defederate from them. Yes, they do have leftist views, they do think the world of many current and ex communist leaders, but if you don't like that, you can just block their communities 🤷.

Other than that, their communites are mostly like everyone else's, politics, memes, piracy, comics, etc. They even have a few LGBTQ+ dedicated communities and about 20% of them are LGBTQ+ acording to a recent demographic survey they had (you can find it in their main community), so... basically, they're human, just like the rest of us.

Many of them are well informed, not to mention highly educated, so I can see why there is fear amongst other instances - a debate starts, most people will flop regarding info, facts, whatever, they'll have the upper hand in the debate, so why actually try and listen to what they've got to say, they're just tankies anyway - defederate 🤷.

If you don't like their communities, just block them, no need to defederate from them... at least I can't see a reason.

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TiredSpider 23 points 3 years ago

I don't know why you're insisting people who don't like lemmygrad are anti-communists. Not all communists are pro-stalin tankies.

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0x4E4F -2 points 3 years ago

And not all liberals are pro war advocates... but some are.

Just because they like him, doesn't mean they admire everything he did. The idea behind the USSR, yes, not the war crimes he commited. And there are war crimes on both sides of the fence, not just on Stalin's side, yet they go unrecognized in history. If we villanize, let's villanize both sides, not just one.

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ondoyant 13 points 3 years ago

Sure! Fuck all war criminals, including the ones you seem to like defending. Listen, maybe people defederated lemmygrad because they "hate communists", or maybe they fully understand their position, and find it objectionable on its own merits. I would, unambiguously, never say I liked a war criminal. If I found out somebody was a war criminal, I would stop liking them. I don't want to be around people who like war criminals, either. To me, that either means they don't know about the war crimes, or they're kinda okay with the war crimes, and either option is bad.

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Otome-chan 7 points 3 years ago

I see. I like the kbin philosophy of just federating with everyone. lemmygrad stuff doesn't pop up that often here and from a quick look it didn't really look like an issue. But yeah I guess you're right that it's just fear? or people just wanting to curate/block certain things...

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0x4E4F -1 points 3 years ago

It's like my need to see less cat posts. I searched for every cat community there is on Lemmy and just blocked all of them. Problem solved 👍. Some people are just snowflakes and don't even wanna do that out of fear they might see some tankie posts or something, so the admins just did their dirty work for them 😒.

I might open up a kbin account as well, this whole defederation thing sucks. I already have like 5 accounts cuz this instance is defederated from that instance and so on 😒.

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Otome-chan 3 points 3 years ago

yeah so far on kbin I think we're federated with everyone and I think that's kinda the default going forward. So unless other instances block us, we're probably fine.

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areyouevenreal 5 points 3 years ago

They support North Korea for goodness sake. Being communists isn't the problem, it's that they support fascist dictatorships pretending to be communist.

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0x4E4F 2 points 3 years ago

Do you support president Washington? Did you know he was pro slavery? Far worse than having a dictatorship if you ask me.

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areyouevenreal 1 point 3 years ago

Honestly I had to google who he was, because I fogot. I am British, not American, so he isn't a big deal over hear. Technically he was an enemy of my country not that really matters.

I don't particularly support him if that's what you're asking, as I have no reason to. He wasn't the first person to implement a democracy, and the democracy he implemented wasn't a true democracy to begin with. The ancient greeks did it thousands of years before him and fyi also had slaves.

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coolin 5 points 3 years ago

Lemmygrad is specifically problematic for being predominantly Marxist Leninist (as the .ml suggests). I think you're probably right that people just reject them outright because of AH THE COMMUNISTS WANT TO END CAPITALISM red scare type stuff present in Western countries, but where I specifically find Lemmygrad (and other tankies) being way too negative to interact with is when they get into defending Communist regimes.

If you asked the average Lemmygrad user, they too would be enveloped in propaganda, though this time coming from communist regimes and praxis they've read. They have been deluded into believing Stalin and Mao were good leaders, that authoritarianism is okay if it advances their favorite political agenda (though for some reason also claim that these countries aren't authoritarian), and that these regimes should be implemented everywhere.

The worst of it all is their constant genocide denial. Yes, the USA and other Western countries have done a similar amount (maybe even more?) of really bad stuff in this area (e.g. natives, apartheids, roma, etc. 💀), but I think broadly a well educated Western citizen, especially a leftist one, should be able to understand and admit that what their country did was wrong and should never be done again. A Lemmygrad user instead defends things like the Uighur genocide and Holodomor, saying both that they don't exist and are "western propaganda" while at the same time entertaining the counterfactual and saying if they did happen it was justified because the West did it too and they were being very mean to communism 😡.

When you get to that level of malevolent stupidity, you start to look more and more like a fascist that supports genocide and absolute power of the state and that uses strategic ambiguity to express your toxic beliefs, than you do a leftist. I don't think anyone suggests we stay federated with a fascist instance because fascists are misunderstood after "years of propaganda pushed by western countries" to discredit Hitler and Mussolini, but here you are doing the moral equivalent.

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0x4E4F 4 points 3 years ago

If you asked the average Lemmygrad user, they too would be enveloped in propaganda, though this time coming from communist regimes and praxis they've read.

Of course, that is how you spread ideas, through propaganda. That is how western countries did it as well. That is how we got here, to Lemmy, lol.

They have been deluded into believing Stalin and Mao were good leaders, that authoritarianism is okay if it advances their favorite political agenda (though for some reason also claim that these countries aren't authoritarian), and that these regimes should be implemented everywhere.

I have seen people judge, but have never experienced what it would be like living under the ruling of a benevolent dictator. I'm not saying Stalin or Mao were like that, I'm saying that I live in a country that used to be socialist and had a dictator like that... trust me when I say this, we were better of with what we had previously.

So, please first experiece first had what it is to live in both types of societies before you judge. Every story has 2 sides, so does this one.

The worst of it all is their constant genocide denial. Yes, the USA and other Western countries have done a similar amount (maybe even more?) of really bad stuff in this area (e.g. natives, apartheids, roma, etc. 💀), but I think broadly a well educated Western citizen, especially a leftist one, should be able to understand and admit that what their country did was wrong and should never be done again.

I don't think any of them actually deny that. They usually just compare those acts with what western countries have done. Go on and have a talk with them, none of them deny that. They know that they did terrible things, but try and debunk the western theories "russia bad, usa good"... thay all have sceletons in their closets, there is no denying that. You can't keep an empire as large as the US or USSR afloat and not have done any bad deed to anyone, that's just nuts. There will always be collateral damage.

George Washington was pro slavery, yet he's still praised and printed on bills, right? So that's normal, but this isn't, lol.

A Lemmygrad user instead defends things like the Uighur genocide and Holodomor, saying both that they don't exist and are "western propaganda" while at the same time entertaining the counterfactual and saying if they did happen it was justified because the West did it too and they were being very mean to communism 😡.

Denying it is not OK. But, I get their stand point - the US denies doing soooo many things, why should we be any different 🤷. They're cutting slack, why not us.

I still haven't seen anyone deny those tjings, but if I do, even though I am a socialist by beliefs, I will most definitely confront them. Their beliefs are not mine and I would rather have the truth out than hide it under the carpet. BUT, the whole truth, not just one side of it. Let's take everyone's dirty laundry out, not just the USSRs or USes, both of them. Because people usually think that bodies are piled up on only side of the lawn, which is a lie of course.

When you get to that level of malevolent stupidity, you start to look more and more like a fascist that supports genocide and absolute power of the state and that uses strategic ambiguity to express your toxic beliefs, than you do a leftist.

Expressing absolute power in a state can sometimes be a good thing. Depends on a lot of things, but in certain countries/federations, it just works. I could state examples here, my own country being one of them, but it'll just be too long of a post.

And you percieve them as toxic, I don't. Why? IDK, I just don't 🤷. Maybe it's because my own beliefs allign in 90% of theirs.

Defederating is the issue here, not the content of that instance. You don't like something, fine, block it. Lemmy has that option. I block communies I don't like all the time, I have about 20 blocked ao far, why is that so hard, I really have bo idea.

I don't think anyone suggests we stay federated with a fascist instance because fascists are misunderstood after "years of propaganda pushed by western countries" to discredit Hitler and Mussolini, but here you are doing the moral equivalent.

I couldn't care less if anyone stays federated with a faschist instance or not. It doesn't make 1 single bit of difference. I don't like it? I block it. It really is THAT simple 🤦.

In fact, I would even like to be federated with a faschist instance. Why? Meeh, might unblock it from time to time, just to troll them and get on their nerves.

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tartarsauce 18 points 3 years ago

I very much appreciate this philosophy. It looks like this is the right instance for me :)

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tallwookie 14 points 3 years ago

nice to hear that about open federation. I feel that the real benefit of the concept of federation is decentralization - and de-federating like beehaw did just ruins that.

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SkyNTP 9 points 3 years ago

Instances that defederate are at a disadvantage though, because it hurts their users. There is a natural incentive to stay federated. Defederation is really a nuclear-scale moderation tool, and it's one of the founding principles of the fediverse: independant administration. If you don't like some administrators, vote them out by joining an instance that better matches your needs instead.

In any case, the admins of these instances are collaborating and have stated that this is a temporary measure untill better mod tools become available. I'm not worried at all.

But no doubt by, some communities are going to be just so at odds, that it's probably best if there are mechanisms to keep them separated. And you know what? That's just fine.

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ImDonaldDunn 2 points 3 years ago

I really hope that we’ll get the option to migrate accounts from once instance to another soon, like Mastodon has. It sucks that you can wake up one day and no longer be able to interact with your communities. Without migration options, you’re kinda stuck.

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RyanHakurei 14 points 3 years ago

I honestly don't see anything of value being lost. They can wall off into their own echochamber and the rest of us can communicate freely.

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Biorix 25 points 3 years ago

This is not a matter of different point of view but a moderation one, since they are outnumbered for now with flow of new people and bad actors.

I don't think they did it happily

But we're not concerned since this instance is smaller and probably not as much targeted

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techno156 12 points 3 years ago

They not happy about it, but it was the only way for them to stop users circumventing their account creation restrictions by registering an account at places that didn't have those, and just posting over there.

According to their post, they basically did it as a last resort, since Lemmy doesn't have good enough moderation tools to deal with the influx, and they don't have the manpower either.

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Sexypink -6 points 3 years ago

Yeah okay because they're going to tell us the truth

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JasSmith 9 points 3 years ago

This is not a matter of different point of view but a moderation one, since they are outnumbered for now with flow of new people and bad actors.

I don't agree. They appear to have a lot more moderators than kbin.social or lemmy.world. They didn't have any higher number of trolls. What they want is to remove more comments. Comments which they think offend people. This is all about a point of view. They want a safe space. An echo chamber. They want to be protected from diversity.

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ondoyant 12 points 3 years ago

Beehaw has been pretty darn open about exactly why and under what circumstances they defederated. Try to be a little more charitable here. They're in open communication with the mods of both lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works as of now, and are trying to start development on more nuanced moderation tools. As far as I know, the intent is to refederate once things get figured out.

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Quetzacoatl 1 point 3 years ago

which, by your argument, is also fine. let them be the safe space, and whoever doesn't want that, well just create an alt account literally anywhere else. it's not worth fussing over imho.

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stappern 12 points 3 years ago

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stargazer 4 points 3 years ago

Click the link and find out

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stappern 12 points 3 years ago

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fuckyou_m8 5 points 3 years ago

I also think lemmygrad should not be defederated

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noodlejetski -3 points 3 years ago

all the tankies.

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BrotherCod 10 points 3 years ago

I think the general idea behind Lemmy and activity pub was not to have all the instances and groups on one server to begin with. It's just that some of the older users of Lemmy/kbin/mastodon, already had the servers up and running instead of people creating own self-hosted instances.

The intention was more for one server to host one instance on a specific topic and then federate with the rest of the community. That server would just be in control of that one instance, like a subreddit on Reddit's main site.

Instead what you had was three or four people who were used to the back end software, creating a bunch of groups or letting be created a bunch of groups on their instance. This is going to centralize the population to certain servers instead of ending up with thousands of small federated servers.

And once the personal belief systems and moderation start seeping into all groups on that server we're going to see problems. The more control one single person has, the higher the likelihood is that they're going to start abusing the power in some way, even if they don't think it's an abuse their selves.

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Awhiskeydrunker 8 points 3 years ago

The fact that users can easily move to another instance will serve as something of a check and balance against this kind of behavior by mods and admins though, wouldn’t it?

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zalack 7 points 3 years ago

Can they though? As far as I can tell there's no affordance for migrating accounts, so if you want to move instances, you are forced to abandon your account.

Maybe not a huge deal right at this instant, but each day that goes by, users more posts and comments accumulate that makes losing an account suck.

Which means the is (unintended) pressure to stay put baked into the technical design. If letting users move freely between servers is a design goal, there need to be technical affordances for it.

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Ataraxia 2 points 3 years ago

I'm not understanding why that matters though. I don't think people care about comments etc. Those comments will still exists. I have never gone back to look at comments I wrote after I moved on to something else so I may missing something here?

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HeartyBeast 10 points 3 years ago

I personally believe Lemmy/kbin can only thrive if there is a free flow of content between different instances

I personally disagree. There will be entirely private instances, there will be instances with highly restricted federation. There will be instances that federate with most and there will be instances that federate without restriction. That's the beauty of the model and that's why kbin and lemmy with thrive.

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Angleslam 9 points 3 years ago

Why did lemmygrad get blocked?

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AtomicAria 25 points 3 years ago

It's full of tankies (fascists who like the color red).

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captainlezbian 1 point 3 years ago

Does that mean exploding heads will get defederated?

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0x4E4F -12 points 3 years ago

You really have bo idea what you're talking about, do you... have you even visited the communities in lemmygrad?

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GarlicFries 10 points 3 years ago

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0x4E4F -12 points 3 years ago

Have ever visited lemmygrad? Do you have an account there? Why do their views differ so much than the ones from the western word? Aren't westerners (the US in particular) the ones that basically forcefully made other countries capitalist, by means of war in most cases, and called that liberation of the people? And did they not exploit those countries natural resources by calling that free capital market?

They may have extremist views, but they're not faschists, I can tell you that much. And not all of them have extremist views, I've lead some prety decent conversations there.

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Toothpickjim 6 points 3 years ago

Nice to see admins with a level head

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Sexypink 4 points 3 years ago

I agree. But to me personally, I think people Oh lemmy WANT censorship and so forth. Really kills the experience honestly

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zinklog 26 points 3 years ago

Each instance will have different perspective on it. Some would obviously censor more stuff than us. It will depend on the user what kind of experience he is looking for.

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assa123 9 points 3 years ago

Also, what happens if I have an account in an instance that suddenly gets backlash for some arbitrary reason and other instances block it? Would I be able to migrate to one of those blocking instances?

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zinklog 9 points 3 years ago

Right now no, you'll have to create a seperate account.

But account migration is one of the most requested features so I think it'll be implemented soon-ish.

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assa123 3 points 3 years ago

But even if it gets implemented, I think you would need a third instance that has not blocked your originating instance and that is not blocked by your target instance. Anyway, its a worst case scenario.

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iorale 10 points 3 years ago

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SeatBeeSate 4 points 3 years ago

Censorship? No, but moderation would be great.

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ImFresh3x 9 points 3 years ago

Some people see basic moderation as censorship. Personally I’m ok with banning bigotry. I see that as basic moderation. And yeah, that is censorship.

There should be places edgy bigots can do their thing, I guess, but it shouldn’t be on the front page of Lemmy. Or in comment threads in general communities. Moderation will be essential if we want this places to grow, and for instances to interact.

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GarlicFries 3 points 3 years ago

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GarlicFries 1 point 3 years ago

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BlackSkinnedJew 3 points 3 years ago

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kilmister 3 points 3 years ago

A little bit late to the party here. What is the reason why lemmygrad.ml is blocked?

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FrankTheHealer 2 points 3 years ago

Very tanky ultra left pro Russia, pro China, anti everyone else part of Fediverse.

Check them out if you like but they only talk shit about the West and NATO. Put another way, you are not missing much by avoiding them.

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areyouevenreal 1 point 3 years ago

They also support North Korea!

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calvinklein97 1 point 3 years ago

Thanks for that. I tried to subscribe to some German communities on Feddit just to find out that they blocked our instance on their end. Fuck them I guess, I'm staying here.

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0x4E4F -13 points 3 years ago

Fuck beehaw!

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