Hi 👋 just shared the site with one of my buddies and he told me he doesn’t care much about it because there’s no way you’ll be 100% privacy enforced since you’re using an iPhone and sharing your location, name, birthdate , personal files, photos.
I’ve to say this gets to me but on the other side I’m also respectful of everyone‘s opinion because after all, this is what makes us special
How are you handling these circumstances usually, do you say something?
2 is almost as bad as the all or nothing approach. I argue that while Apple is not trustworthy, they are not incentivized to collect every piece of information about you that they can. Conversely, android is an operating system created by an advertising company specifically to ensure an ongoing corner on their market. Asking the average person to use a DeGoogled OS is akin to telling them to switch to OpenBSD on their desktop.
Completely disagree. You can't use iPhones with anything but iOS. And you can't install any apps Apple hasn't put their fucking rubber stamp and collected taxes on. For that reason, it is not and never will be viable. Not to mention being overpriced and disposable.
Android may be created by an advertising company but they also give you the ability to run whatever OS you want and strip it of Google's proprietary software completely. These days you can install OS like Graphene by simply plugging in your phone and clicking buttons in your browser.
This is patently untrue, and a total misrepresentation of the facts.
LOL what? No it isn't.
You can install other OSes on a rather small list of Android phones.
How many iPhones can you install another OS on? That's nothing to do with Android anyway, you'd have to talk to the OEMs and carriers about that, Google lets you do it on their phones.
while the user might just be clicking a few buttons, behind the scenes those buttons put into play a rather complex series of actions that break the protections put into place by Google and phone manufacturers to stop you from doing exactly that.
No, it doesn't. You don't know what you're talking about.
Saying that Google gives you the ability to install other OSes is like saying Sony gives you the ability to install other OSes on the Playstation.
No, it's not. There's a toggle that Google put in the stock settings specifically for that purpose.
Graphene doesn’t completely strip Google software though, it sandboxes it. You still gotta use the play store to install most apps for example.
I mean the entire thing is "Google software" so I'm not sure what you mean. It strips it of everything that calls Google's servers. It has optional sandboxed Google Play services.
You don't need the Google Play Store, you can install all of those apps with Aurora Store.
90%+ apps require Google play services, which basically allows them to know every app you use, and potentially more.
There’s also a surge in apps implementing integrity checks, which makes you unable to run certain apps entirely with a custom ROM
Google has the exact same policy of getting a large cut of each payment you make…
Just like Ulrich thinking installing graphene being easy is just his experience, that is just your experience. I don't have a single app that needs google play and that's one thing i find it easy.
Whatever would need it i just use their website. Sure they try a lot to annoy you into using their useless app but it's doable and becomes an incentive to find a better service.
Android may be created by an advertising company but they also give you the ability to run whatever OS you want and strip it of Google’s proprietary software completely. These days you can install OS like Graphene by simply plugging in your phone and clicking buttons in your browser.
That's like saying since computers come with Windows pre-installed, Microsoft gave you the ability to install Linux. Computers are agnostic to what runs on them, they're inherently neutral unless made on the deeper level to prohibit side loading. Like a lot of Androids and all iPhones do.
Microsoft gave you the ability to install Linux
They don't give you the ability but they also don't actively impede you from installing something else. If computers were agnostic then you could install whatever you wanted on an iPhone but you can't because Apple locks them down.
There's many reasons not to get an iPhone, but privacy worries, in contrast to Android, is not one of them.
Rather than take an all or nothing attitude on the matter, I certainly think your friend would be better off trying make smart choices with his data whenever possible. Ultimately though, it's something that he has to be motivated to do himself. Perhaps informing him of potential privacy risks would be helpful in that regard.
How does getting an iPhone not worry someone about privacy? Do you believe that Apple doesn't collect as much data as Google?
Apple charges unreasonably high profit margins on its products as its primary business model, along with locking down their ecosystem to push overpriced subscriptions to the detriment of competitors, to not need the same level of invasive data collection that powers Google's advertising business.
Basically, you trust Apple to not be as bad as Google. I hope you realise how flawed your assumption is. Capitalism doesn't consider morality in its wake
They're both rock bottom, and that's the best I can give. However, I will accept a concession in that my argument is more geared towards trying to escape Big Tech surveillance as a whole, not from any specific company. I admit that was a bold move from Apple but that's our perception of the situation; you don't actually know the discussions that happened and their inner workings because both companies aren't transparent in their dealings
With the exception to GrapheneOS, compared to stock Android and Apple its much more secure and private since it removes everything connected to Google on it.
Then by using Free/Libre Open Source Software apps on F-Droid, as the replacement for Google Play, you can effectively eliminate trackers from your device using apps like Exodus that provides detailed breakdowns on app trackers and permissions.
As well as TrackerControl where you are given granular control over trackers on apps and even on websites you visit. It blocks analytic, fingerprinting, advertising, and other uncategorized trackers.
Then using Privacy Browser you can browse the web using TOR further enhancing your privacy. Whilst having built in tracker, cookie, javascript, and DOM storage controls.
Communicate through Molly (hardened version of Signal only available on android) or Threema and you can keep your communications secure and private.
Couple that with using a VPN like Mullvad or Proton and you can be very private on Android, that of which you cannot achieve on iOS where Apple has built in telemetry harvesting.
So I would say that compared to Apple, Android CAN be far more private and secure, I personally don't trust that Apple users are private at all considering Apple harvests telemetry and most users use iCloud which, whilst having Advanced Data Protection for most users, they literally took this away from UK residents more recently effectively exposing all of their content.
That doesn't change the fact that it's insecure and will likely become even more insecure as more governments demand more of the same in the name of "protecting the children".
Regardless if Apple's actions were better than the alternative, devices devoid of such vulnerabilities such as degoogled phones are inherently more secure and private.
Privacy and security isn't an all-or-nothing matter though. While a Pixel running GrapheneOS would indeed be more secure privacy-wise than an iPhone, not only would one have to be willing to do without a digital wallet, among other features that unfortunately have telemetry injected into them, but would still depend on the user not installing any of the common apps that would harvest data, even on a de-Googled phone.
I take the stance that I'm privacy minded and while I think everybody should be I don't force my opinion on them. I do express myself and usually my "odd" behavior makes people I know question me, which I then give an answer for.
Most people don't understand why they should strive for privacy. I usually start soft with ads because it's a universal that nobody likes ads and they've experienced all the listening and tracking stuff but not connected the dots.
If they are responsive then in later conversations I can go more into deeper thoughts regarding it all. If I rake them down the rabbit hole right away their head will explode and run away.
it's not only about privacy.
why is anybody ok with zuckerberg or another dipshit getting even richer by selling the information collected on them? Why?
Why would any of my friends or members of my family be ok with our relationship getting used to make money?
fuck surveillance capitalism and anybody who willingly participates in it
...and this is how you keep people using mainstream services instead of FOSS / privacy respecting ones.
The actual answer is convenience and not wanting to make their life more difficult, which brings ignorance into it.
Not everyone is ready to flip their whole digital life upside down based on the privacy principles you and I care about - that's why I too use the approach the parent commenter mentioned, and I'm also okay with people who just won't make any switches, because while I don't support it, I understand it.
The long and short of it is don't think of this as "us vs them" - we're all people together and understanding and gently making people aware of these privacy principles and giving them realistic private solutions is, in my opinion, way more effective than saying "fuck 'em"
Well it's not about 100% privacy, because that's pretty much impossible, it's about MINIMIZING the amount of information they have about us, that information they can use in a variety of detrimental ways against us, to manipulate public opinion and keep us herded in and controlled, apart from money they make from selling it of course.
It's not a collective effort towards changing the general people or anything idealistic like that, since big tech is not gonna disappear no matter how big privacy-focused stuff gets (and it's certainly powerful enough to crush all alternative projects if they start growing too much, they'll never let themselves get overpowered), I view it rather as an individual measure to resist them ultimately thinking for me and guiding my life or my criteria or how I see myself and others.
One thing i don't usually see people mentioning is that personal data is money. Money is power. Do you want to give that company more power?
I absolutely do not want to make apple more powerful. With Android i can at least choose a company i dislike less, or even like, and give the power to then. Then i can even remove Google from the phone and not give them power. It may not be easy but it's in the license of Android, while not so with Apple.
And that applies to every thing related to privacy to me. Do i want to make this company powerful? No? Is there an alternative? Then I'll try that if i can.
If it's too difficult to find an alternative i try to live with it. It depends on how much i hate the company and how hard is it to change.
My own privacy, funny enough, is not really that important to me.
On the point of Android, I also noticed somewhat of a trend: some banking apps cannot run on LineageOS for instance, probably because it’s rooted or idk the true reasoning behind the company’s policy.
How to manage this situation?
You are not going to like the answer, but... I just don't do banking on a phone. I never did. Never trusted something that important on a device I'm carry around all the time. I do it on the desktop, which has an operating system I trust (Linux), that can't get on anyone else's hand.
I'm sorry. I wish I could give a solution. This has never been a problem to me but I understand it's a massive thing for a lot of people.
On a more complicated option, the answer is: it depends. If you have a pixel with grapheneOS and you relocked the phone, I think a lot of bank apps will work. Or maybe a different bank doesn't require that, or allows you to do it on the browser. I usually ask the bank before signing in if they will require me to use an app. If they do, I don't chose them.
The reasons to require the user to use the app are almost always evil, anti-user, and shows it's an organization that will fuck you up down the line, so it's a good filter for me. A red flag.
But yeah, sorry. I'm just the wrong person to ask. Maybe someone else who looked into the subject can suggest something. I never even bothered finding a solution because I never saw a problem.
@lemmy.one
In the digital age, protecting your personal information might seem like an impossible task. We’re here to help.
This is a community for sharing news about privacy, posting information about cool privacy tools and services, and getting advice about your privacy journey.
You can subscribe to this community from any Kbin or Lemmy instance:
Check out our website at privacyguides.org before asking your questions here. We've tried answering the common questions and recommendations there!
Want to get involved? The website is open-source on GitHub, and your help would be appreciated!
This community is the "official" Privacy Guides community on Lemmy, which can be verified here. Other "Privacy Guides" communities on other Lemmy servers are not moderated by this team or associated with the website.
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@lemmy.one
In the digital age, protecting your personal information might seem like an impossible task. We’re here to help.
This is a community for sharing news about privacy, posting information about cool privacy tools and services, and getting advice about your privacy journey.
You can subscribe to this community from any Kbin or Lemmy instance:
Check out our website at privacyguides.org before asking your questions here. We've tried answering the common questions and recommendations there!
Want to get involved? The website is open-source on GitHub, and your help would be appreciated!
This community is the "official" Privacy Guides community on Lemmy, which can be verified here. Other "Privacy Guides" communities on other Lemmy servers are not moderated by this team or associated with the website.
Moderation Rules:
Additional Resources:
go to feed...
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