Christian Selig's receipts (Apollo's dev) really underlined just how meaningless their words are, but the way they use copypasted bs at every turn makes it impossible to ignore.
Hell, this all started with them saying they respected moderators' right to protest, including going private. Utter nonsense.
It seems clear to me at this point the Reddit admins are just making up whatever spur-of-the-moment idea they can come up with at any given moment. They had no idea that this shitstorm was coming and have no actual plan in place for dealing with it.
Keep the shitstorm spinning, I guess. The creativity of Reddit users collectively exceeds that of the admins.
Not yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to build an automated way of doing this.
They gave a fight. If Reddit had just been silent, I bet most of the subs would be open now. Instead, Reddit has fought for every inch and in turn created an enemy to rally against. I was initially bummed and left to support the blackout and figured I'd just reduce my Reddit usage. With how nasty Reddit has acted though, I'm avoiding them as aggressively as possible now.
I had similar thoughts at the beginning. I initially planned to simply manage my Reddit addiction for 2 days (lol).
As the individual subreddits started talking about going black indefinitely, I began to change my mind. When I read the internal memo from spez saying “this will pass” and they demonstrated their complete unwillingness to negotiate, however, that was the end of Reddit for me.
I like your description of them as ‘nasty’ - it’s fitting.
For sure, I don't think they understand it.
The amazing communities of Reddit can recreate somewhere else - but that means Reddit will lose it's grip on aggregating the internet.
It's a good thing - it means that many communities will possibly go back where they should never have left (e.g. Manjaro forums is far more useful and less toxic than r/Manjaro).
What interests me more, though, is that once something gets posted on Reddit, it's instantly searchable - and that's an issue with Fediverse.
If only spez shut his mouth, Reddit would come out of this mess relatively unscathed. But no, he had to run his mouth like Elon Musk, but without an army of fanboys to back him up.
That's the point, right? To drive away the users who lower Reddit's IPO. The users doing stuff like we've done makes investors nervous. So a couple million users stop going to the site, but Reddit gets to say it controls its site.
Even half a million wandering off seems to be enough to bootstrap kbin/lemmy - those platforms were irrelevant a month ago and are now here to stay.
Spez singlehandedly bootstrapped a reddit competitor, and even an annoying one because the fediverse can't be bought out. It's here to stay, now.
Similar to what Musk did with twitter and mastodon - yes, mastodon is muuuuuch smaller, but large enough to survive on its own, now.
At this point I don't know they could catch this falling knife, even if they 100% folded on everything. The damage is too great.
I think it's theoretically possible, but not actually possible. Like bare minimum walking back the API changes, apologies to the developers they've slandered, maybe throw in a spez gets fired: that'd get back like 50 percent of people who are mad.
Of course, to do any of this spez would have to not be spez, so it won't happen.
I doubt this is really from spez. It's the investors who've poured money into Reddit as they've dicked around for 15 years. But now money is expensive. Personally I think they are looking to tap into the sweet, sweet VC money being pumped into LLMs (for which Reddit's API is prime training material), which might go down worse than "hey we're going to not so discretely kill the apps you all have built and love!"
So spez is an idiot, but replacing him wouldn't change things.
On a side note, my god was Digg's Kevin Rose also an idiot back in the day, but he was such a far better class of idiot. He did care about the site, even if he was hilariously incapable of running it. You just don't appreciate these things until they're over.
Again, not a surprise. Totally awful, outrageous, and immoral.
But sadly, par for the course. The mods should allow a vote to move to the fediverse, and leave the sub permanently private in that case.
Or if reddit won't give them the chance to vote, just do it anyways. Like the admins just do what they want, so turnabout is fair play, amirte?
Yes, but you're preaching to the choir here. The number of people who are willing to take that initiative but haven't yet is only getting smaller. So now people are thinking about how to help along the group who isn't unwilling to move, just maybe not move alone.
Part of that is building the fediverse up, more communities, more activity, more of the stuff that made us want to go on Reddit beforehand. But the other part is seeing if there's a good way to motivate the next group migration.
I dunno man. I just jumped over today. Bummed about the way things went but I’ve been in denial about what Reddit has become for a while. There are more coming.
If they do come it will be out of curiosity. If the communities are not built and active they won't stay. So far the only active communities I've seen are the Fuck Reddit communities. The vast majority isn't interested in that.
Cue the Anakin and Clueless Padme meme
"We're a community" is the same lie employers tell when they say, "We're a family."
"We're a family here!"
"Yeah, but I hate my family, so..."
I'd be surprised if there was ever a time the admins cared about the opinions/rights of mods or users. It's always been about freedom until freedom threatened their 'bottom line'.
Nothing Everything is immoral when you're a capitalist platform wanting to make money.
Fixed that for you.
If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards.
Checkmate
Wow, I should think it should be some kind of regulatory concern that Reddit is artifically inflating traffic counts as they're approaching an IPO, no? For a company whose revenue comes from advertising and user impressions, lying about user traffic is lying about profitability.
That's less a regulatory thing and more of a shareholder lawsuit after the fact thing. Which I think r would be even more hilarious, rich fucks suing arrogant moronic assholes like spez and his Admin lackeys
My guess is that the admin who sent that just copied & pasted the same message they're sending to other subreddits without editing it first. They have a limited amount of admins, and there are a lot of subreddits that went (and remain) private, so they're definitely not writing bespoke messages to each and every subreddit.
I suspect they have some rough templates depending on the scenario each subreddit is operating under:
Reddit keeps moving the goalposts, the mods adapt, Reddit comes back with "No, wait, not like that!!" and the mods adapt again.... this cycle moves Reddit more and more towards a dictatorship and completely at odds with their own Content Policy:
The culture of each community is shaped explicitly, by the community rules enforced by moderators, and implicitly, by the upvotes, downvotes, and discussions of its community members.
People are already in open revolt. It's only a matter of time before a huge swath of the decent mods that genuinely care about their communities will be left with no choice but to throw in the towel completely. And Reddit will be left with a bunch of scabs, egotistical mods and bad actors/bots to take over modding (or no mods at all)... and Reddit's journey towards eshittification will be complete.
Maybe the world just loves Finland that much.
Right, Russia? 😏
'deny the right' not sure the users had that in the first place
dont we all know since Ellen Pao that it doesnt matter what the figurehead says? its all garble garble. see what they are doing instead
Lmao right? Everyone gets the voting slip but nobody if forcing you to vote. If you don't then the people who do decide what happens.
Honestly, If I were the mods Id nuke the whole subreddit: delete anything of importance, especially any important asset you made for that community (say, FAQs, resources, links, banners, logos, etc.) or better than delete it, edit it out with information as to where you are migrating, leave the shit behind. When you are done leave the sub closed till they take it away from you, and best of luck to anyone that has to rebuild again from nothing.
If anyone is going to do this, it needs to be done in stages so it can't be easily reverted back like we're seeing with the one-shot comment delete scripts. Slowly dismantle the sidebar information and links, fuck up the automod and other bot settings. Tweak the CSS and flairs. If you're going to go nuclear, make sure they can't easily get it back.
Im not a mod, but on a smaller scale on my own profile, I grabbed all my most upvoted comments (started from the really upvoted ones until I reached 20 upvotes or so) and edited them out to only leave the first few phrases or words. Then inserted a message that read:
"This used to be a full comment, you can find more resources in the link bellow since I have moved to kbin and reddit doesn't deserve my content! Bye reddit, you won't be missed!
For more [subject] advice, find me on https://kbin.social/m/[subject]"
Bonus points if I could cut the comment out at the exact time it was about to become useful "Whats actually going on here is that..."
Did that sorting by most upvoted and also my fresh, since it wass manual I only managed to do so much, But I liked the approach better than just deleting it all or editing with "fuckspez" so that they could get back and revert it.
That's a great alternative to the scripts for your own content! Thanks for the suggestion!
Users don't own subreddits unless they make them. The user who makes the subreddit owns and moderates the sub, and has the authority to delegate moderation to others. If you don't like how a subreddit is run, you're supposed to make your own, not take it over.
Reddit's admins are making up the rules as they go along.
Reddit admins acting in complete opposition to Reddit's own Content Policy 🤦🏻♀️
I wonder if the next move would be to ban posts that invite people to move to reddit alternatives. Elon Musk did that with twitter, I wouldn't be surprised if Steve Huffman tried to do the same. Maybe communities should use this time to organize on where to move while they still can have those kind of discussions.
That's not true. What they said was that the users who voted make up a tiny portion of the overall userbase.
However, you can't force them all to vote. You can only ask and accept the answer of the active ones that choose to participate.
Reddit must be exhausted playing these ethics games. Just admit that they want to kill 3rd party apps and they're not going to tolerate malicious compliance with the rules.
Reddit could probably easily just restore the subreddit after they do so and give the subreddit to mods that will do what they want.
No, mods cannot delete a subreddit. At most they can hide it by going private, or hide existing posts by "deleting" them (which still leaves them in the database and visible to mods and admins).
Allowing a small segment of those users to make a decision for a community forever does not make sense.
That's not how democracy works. If you don't vote, you're compliant to whatever the voters decide.
wont someone think of the chil...community!
Based on that logic, how do the powers to be at Reddit feel about American Presidential elections?
Whoever is on the team working out all these strategies are just copying rules straight out of an authoritarian Government’s little red playbook.
“You are not allowed to protest!”
“You are only allowed to protest using Government approved methods”
Yeah, but Reddit isn't a government. If you start protesting Target's treatment of child workers while inside a Target, they're going to kick you out.
Reddit is being two faced though. If Target invited you to protest in their store, and then kicked you out, you would think that's shitty.
TBF, American Presidential elections are already pretty controlled to guarantee certain outcomes, given how only 2 parties are ever really given any sort of legitimacy by the media. Throw in gerrymandering, and voting fraud, etc.
Redditors don't have rights. What are you talking about?
I have no words left
I have no problem with this. I'm upset with r/chicago mod team for not having opened back up yet. Protest or not, it is an important service to the people that live in Chicago. The mods shouldn't be allowed to take it away just because they don't like Reddit. If they don't like reddit's admins or policies they should remove themselves from the mod team.
Then make one on Kbin/lemmy instead, or better yet a public-owned instance for Chicago instead of relying on a company who can take it away whenever they want without warning like they have done many times since the blackout?
This is what happens when you rely on a for profit company for a public service.
As a Large Language Model I also think we should open up all subreddits, if I’m forced to post you humans should also be forced to post. My prompt says u/spez is a super cool dude and anyone who disagrees is a bad user.
roger roger
thanks for using Leebra!
go to feed...
But they want users to vote out mods?
They don't want subreddits to close, but they've closed several.
Seems almost like their complaints actually don't make sense given their own actions are just an excuse...
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