Burning Gas Pollutes So Much, Dirty EV Battery Manufacturing Evens Out In About 2 Years
4 months ago by sanitation to c/technology
oh wow I didn't know that!
would make sense to give more a lot incentives for EV buying if so!
I wish they weren’t so expensive though.
IMO the biggest incentive of all is that the battery exists for the life of the vehicle and can be recycled at the end (the lithium inside does not disappear!), vs the gas which is literally burning money away.
Socialize losses, privatize gains. I don't want my tax money incentivizing some rich asshole to buy an EV. Nobody that needs help buying a car can even consider an EV, their too expensive. The cheapest ev u can buy in USA is 30k, the cheapest ICE is 22k. And people that need help buying cars can't afford either. Only middle class + people are buying these things, and they don't need poor people's tax money to subsidize their purchase from a private corp. I'm all for evs but let's be honest the people buying them DONT need help buying them. Id rather see my tax money go toward renewable infrastructure or research on batteries and such! We can't keep relying on the private industry to fund research, in technology or in medicine or any science imo. But that's just my angry fist wagging opinion as somebody who refuses to spend more than 3k on a car because I'm not made of money. I'm not exactly poor, I'm a home owner under 30 and make around 60-70k a year depending on OT and bonuses. But if I went and got a loan on a Chevy bolt for 30k I would not be able to make my mortgage payments even with subsidies, so why should somebody who makes more get help buying a new car? Horseshit
Everytime you bring it up, you get a whole lot of people with gasoline powered cars getting very angry. Sure batteries are not 'perfect', but they are a whole lot better in almost every way compared to gasoline powered vehicles.
The anger is less about how bad EV's are and more about being expected to buy a hilariously expensive EV when someone has a perfectly functional car. Make them cheaper and people will buy them, because other than the environmental aspect EV's just require less maintenance overall, making them cheaper to run.
but this result was so unwelcome that the research got hidden away.
the climate, oil industry did not like it was being contradicted.
throwing away your old ICE car
But most people wouldn’t send their old car to the scrap heap, they would sell it on the secondary market to someone else (or a dealer, who would auction it into the secondary market). The old car would then continue to burn gas for likely many more years, until it “falls apart” anyway.
Stepping back, your old car may be the first in a chain of older (or more falling-apart) vehicles getting traded out, all the way down to one that really does get fully retired, or replacing one that was totaled in a collision. So choosing to keep it deprives someone else of its availability and thereby drives up used prices slightly.
For any study of this type of net effect, the authors need to pick a boundary for what gets considered. How many secondary market transactions do you study in that replacement chain, and what do those buyers substitute when the original ICE vehicle is not replaced with an EV? How far do you go in the pollution and other supply chain effects of manufacturing a new vehicle? I didn’t read a machine translation of your Swiss link, so I don’t know where the study authors drew the bounds, but I suspect it’s easy to choose and defend framing that supports either conclusion.
In my personal calculation, I can only see one step down the used chain, wherein my old vehicle would continue to be driven by someone else, so replacing it with an EV wouldn’t make a substantial difference. I love my old car with no surveillance, so I’m in no hurry to switch even though I’ll presumably buy an EV eventually.
Ultimately this is just one more example that that’s no ethical consumption within capitalism.
The authors discuss this exact question as well and they agree it’s difficult where to draw the line. Usually however your used car will in most cases replace another used car that is even more inefficient. In the end you cannot control what other people do only what you do and if you want to make the most climate friendly decision then ditching the ICE car is the right decision.
I provided a link that explains that in detail.
Energy grid wouldn't survive quick mass EV adoption most likely. Heck, how would you even charge a car if you don't own a house - ideally parking places would have a slow charger where you could recharge car during night for cheap.
Litte remarks regarding EV and not having a point of charge at home.
I have an EV but don't own a house to charge it. Neither have a charging point on my appartement parking or my office (too complex/expensive to install). So I delayed buying an EV during few years. But I did the switch last year and don't regret it at all.
The solution?
I found a charging station with good price at 7km of my place.
When I come back from office and I'm starting to be below 30% battery remaining, I go there and charge up to 90% during ~30 min.
I read a book on my tablet while waiting in the car with the music and air conditioning (as it quite hot currently) while charging at approx 80/90 45 kW/h... A nice break before going home to be honest ^^
I really handle the EV like a classic combustion engine car but with a small tank. Instead of having 800km of autonomy, i have 400~450km.
The key is to have a reliable and cheap charging station near your daily travel. Best being having it at home but it's definitely not mandatory.
I'm currently at an average of 4.02€ for 100km driven and my charging station doesn't require monthly fee. Just register an account, associate your car once and now it's plug and charge.
I share your view regarding the grid, you need to prepare it properly and good charging station is the first step.
Edit: Fixed the amount I usually charge: it's more around 45kW per charge.
Idk they're making it work for data centers and those need way more energy
Heck, how would you even charge a car if you don't own a house
How would you even fill a tank if you don't own a gas station?
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Burning gas is so extremely bad that even throwing away your old ICE car and buying a new electric car is better than driving the ICE car until it „falls apart“. This was the research finding in Switzerland, but this result was so unwelcome that the research got hidden away. https://www.republik.ch/...
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