What's the difference between socialism and communism? Is there one? Or are the terms interchangeable?

2 months ago by Sheridan to c/nostupidquestions

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madowlx 29 points 2 months ago

Socialism - Everyone contributes money to social programs that benefit everyone. Taxes are higher, but the money is used for the benefit of all. The government exists to oversee the programs that support the people. This HAS worked in many countries around the world. It is not about everyone being economically equal in society, it's about accessibility of care and benefit for everyone regardless of their starting point.

Communism - Everyone is to be on equal footing and wealth is to be evenly distributed among everyone. Everything is, in theory, shared and belongs to everyone. The government exists to oversee the transition of society, then is meant to step aside rather than remain above the rest of the people. This has NOT worked as no one has ever successfully established this and then stepped aside. It leaves the door wide open for abuse of power.

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BlameThePeacock 0 points 2 months ago

It's important to consider the fact that an economy does not have to be entirely Capitalist, Socialist, or Communist.

Most countries already have Socialist and Capitalist components at this point.

What I'd personally like to see is Land be a communist system. Necessities be Socialist. Luxuries be Capitalist.

Every citizen of a country should own and share in the land of the country equally. It should not be possible to privately own land. If land is leased or rented from this pool for individual or corporate use, that money should be given to everyone equally. Likely that would be handled by a government in reality, but it should be fairly hands off other than facilitating the transfer of value.

Necessities like Basic Housing, Basic Food, Public Transportation, Medical Care, Parks, Rec Centers, Schools, Police, Courts, etc. should be all handled with socialism. Where the government collects taxes from the land value and capitalist markets, and operates these systems itself for the benefit of everyone who needs them.

If you want more than necessities, capitalism should stick around to handle those desires. Want a bigger fancier house, some fancy oranges from another country, a suit made of silk, go ahead and buy it on a capitalist market either with the money you receive from your portion of land ownership value, or through participating in the capitalist market yourself.

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OilyArena 3 points 2 months ago

This is completely wrong. Social welfare and shared infrastructure have nothing to do with Socialism. Socialism is an economic model where the means of production are owned by the workers, nothing more, nothing less.

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BlameThePeacock -2 points a month ago

You clearly don't understand how many countries operate. Or you're somehow misunderstanding what "means of production" or "workers" means.

My local electricity provider, and all of it's power production equipment, transmission lines, meters, etc. are owned by the government. So is every hospital in the country. Almost every road is public.

Means of production is any sort of capital used to build value, so things like infrastructure, buildings, factories, machinery, tools, etc.

Workers does not mean the people that work in a particular building or factory, it means the class of people as a whole.

It's pretty obvious that if the government owns something, under a democracy that thing is is owned by the citizens of the region. Even Marx mentions that socialism would use the state for collective ownership.

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OilyArena 2 points a month ago

Yes, they may be state-owned, but you still live in a bourgeois state with capitalist ownership structure, so the state doesn't act in the workers interest, but to uphold the capitalist order.

By the way, would you mind telling me what country that is? Most EU countries with strong state-owned infrastructure that I'm aware of have been forced to liberalize, so for example in my country lots of former state enterprises are now private profit-bound businesses that are just 100% owned by the state.

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BlameThePeacock -2 points a month ago

Canada

You're stretching the realities here with your assertions. The vast majority of what the government does is in the interest of workers. It could be better, absolutely, but it's a far cry from some dystopian corpo-state. The government could move towards more positive worker benefits, but a lot of those workers won't actually vote for them if they did because people aren't entirely rational. So we're essentially getting what we deserve right now.

Profit-bound but still owned by the state would still be socialist. There's no requirement that the means of production not generate profit to qualify as being owned by the workers.

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OilyArena 2 points a month ago

So you're a Social Democrat, got it. Those are pretty out of fashion over here and gave up pretending wanting to achieve Socialism long ago. Sorry, but I don't really think that what you're talking about is Socialism, it's liberal reformism.

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BlameThePeacock -1 points a month ago

I want Communism for Land, Socialism for Necessities, and Capitalism for Luxuries.

I don't think that puts me into any of the existing labels to be quite honest.

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OilyArena 2 points a month ago

It makes you someone who doesn't understand what those terms mean, so a modern liberal.

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BlameThePeacock -1 points a month ago

It makes me someone who treats them as economic systems, usually referred to as an economist.

Have fun being morally outraged by my proposal, but at least it's grounded in reality. Humans are not capable of making or maintaining a full Marxist communist state. Our desires are limitless, reality is finite.

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Cowbee 3 points a month ago

Socialism is a mode of production and distribution where the working classes control the state, and public ownership is the principal (rising and dominant) aspect of the economy. Communism is a post-socialist mode of production and distribution where the entire economy is collectivized and planned, and there is no longer a state, class, or money. See Cheng Enfu's diagram:

You have a horrible understanding of socialism, communism, and social democracy, that frankly makes things more confusing.

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