Seems Putin may be leaving Moscow as well: https://www.radarbox.com/...
That post seems to be missing.
Weirdmusic 4 points 3 years ago
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dragontamer 33 points 3 years ago
I saw on a live YouTube feed that the forces in the city have switched sides with barely any shots being fired.
That's basically the point of a coup. Ideally you don't want bloodshed. And by showing more-and-more soldiers taking your side, you strengthen your march.
Wagner's troops are allegedly halfway to driving to Moscow. Seems like all the soldiers manning the checkpoints are waving them through. The time to stop Wagner's troops was at the border. Imagine if you're some poorly-trained national guardsman watching 20,000 troops with tanks and advanced weaponry come to your checkpoint.
And they say "Look, we haven't had to kill anyone at any of the checkpoints in the last 500 miles yet, but we wouldn't mind if you were the first we had to kill. So are you going to step aside punk?"
By the time they get to Moscow, they'll have at least the tacit support of all the troops they walked passed on the way. This whole thing can be over in just a few hours. It was said that the 1917 Communist revolution over Tsar Nicholas went off with surprisingly lilttle bloodshed.
Of course, just because today is peaceful says nothing about days, or weeks from now. Soon after the (relatively peaceful) 1917 takeover, began the 1918 Russian Civil War.
FaceDeer 4 points 3 years ago
Of course, just because today is peaceful says nothing about days, or weeks from now. Soon after the (relatively peaceful) 1917 takeover, began the 1918 Russian Civil War.
Indeed. My understanding is that Prigozhin is well-respected by the common military men but has no support from the oligarchs. If he seizes power I can't imagine he'll hold it. I'm just guessing of course, but I think Prigozhin's goal must be to eliminate his military rivals and remain "loyal" to Putin, leaving Putin to continue handling the oligarchs while Prigozhin becomes the indispensable military commander.
I doubt something like that would stay stable for long.
LostMyRedditLogin 3 points 3 years ago path: 0 492995 493214 493597 494327, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
tookmyname 3 points 3 years ago
Or
TheTwoTowers 3 points 3 years ago
Good points. Let's hope this will be a positive development for Ukraine.
rammer 1 point 3 years ago
I hope that this will be a positive development for Russia. In that it will weaken the oligarchs to such a degree that democratic forces will take over. But that is a loooooong shot. And even then the will of the Russian people isn't really conducive to a peaceful democratic society.
It's more likely that this will lead to another Russian Civil War where the oligarchs and war lords fight each other for power. All it needs now is a spark.
Kantiberl 17 points 3 years ago
He seems to be rather explicitly trying to exonerate Putin in this by saying the general lied to Putin and the people. The whole thing seems like a scheme by Putin to blame everything on someone else and have an easy out for why Russia "lost".
Thepinyaroma 15 points 3 years ago
It's a tactic as old as rebellion too, though.
"I'm a loyal follower of his majesty, it's the good king's advisors poisoning his mind!"
And then you ride that wave of legitimacy and popular policy (We're gonna stop sending your kids to die for no reason!) into, well, something. Either power, force a compromise, or a horrible death. Seems like that last one was coming from all sides so why not gamble?
Either way I do not believe this is some 4D chess move by Putin. He could leave Ukraine today, throw a parade claiming victory, and I imagine the average Russian would just be glad it's over.
FaceDeer 9 points 3 years ago
The people of Russia, by and large, worship Putin. The only way to ensure the people are on your side is to tell them that you're acting on Putin's behalf, or for the benefit of Putin.
You've probably seen some of the videos that various Russian soldiers or soldiers' wives have made over the past year, talking about how they don't have enough ammo or their loved ones are missing or whatever. Those videos are usually addressed to Putin, with the people trying to tell Putin about the problems they're having. They think the only reason things are bad is because Putin doesn't know that his underlings are running things poorly, and as soon as Putin finds out he'll make things right.
I recall reading an article some months back discussing a hypothetical scenario for how exactly Russia would "break apart", and even then the author was expecting that Putin would remain as the figurehead Tsar that everyone paid lip-service fealty to. All of the regional governors would claim legitimacy in their role by saying they were serving Putin. They'd claim that those awful nasty other governors were betraying Putin, and that's why they had to seize territory from them.
Putin's probably not going to lose that role until he dies. Maybe not even then.
AlexTheLost 2 points 3 years ago
Maybe not even then.
Honestly this is what I expect to eventually happen. the Russian government will just not tell anyone he died and use stick footage/deepfakes to make it look like he's giving speeches and things
saucyloggins 15 points 3 years ago
Wow this shit is rapidly unfolding. News and events are going to be pretty interesting in the coming weeks. Hopefully Putin doesnāt do anything drastic in Ukraine or abroad.
Ph0mX 10 points 3 years ago
CNN: Wagner claims it has taken control of military facilities in Voronezh
"Military facilities in Voronezh are taken under the control of the Wagner PMC. The army switches to the side of the people," read a short statement from Wagner's Telegram channel.
BananaTrifleViolin 10 points 3 years ago
Apparentl Rostov is very important to the Russian war effort in Ukraine. It is home of the Russian southern military district command - from the Institute of the Study of War via the Guardian
dragontamer 10 points 3 years ago
ISW is a USA-based think tank on war matters. They're pretty hawkish, but that's why they pay attention to foreign policy events like the Ukrainian-war.
https://www.understandingwar.org/...
Every day, they make huge summary posts like this on the military movements of the war.
downpunxx 10 points 3 years ago
Wagner completely in control of Rostov, Yevgeny Prigozhin has a meeting at the headquarters of the Southern Military District with Russian Deputy Minister of Defense Yunus Bek Yevkurov and Russian First Deputy Chief of the GRU of the General Staff Lieutenant General Vladimir Alekseev. Video from the meeting was published by telegram channels associated with Prigozhin, as well as RT
Prigozhin demands that Russian Chief of the General Staff Gerasimov and Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu are turned over to him, in person, otherwise, Wagner PMCs will continue blockade of Rostov and go to Moscow
Ph0mX 8 points 3 years ago
(The Guardian): Reuters is reporting that video on a pro-Wagner channel on Telegram appears to show Yevgeny Prigozhin talking to top Russian generals in what the channel says is the district military headquarters in Rostov-on-Don.
Prigozhin appears to say on the video that his men will blockade Rostov-on-Don and head for Moscow unless Sergei Shoigu, the Russian defence minister, and Gen Valery Gerasimov come to them.
Ph0mX 7 points 3 years ago
CNN: Voronezh governor says convoy of military equipment is moving along the highway
Voronezh is about half way to Moscow
BlendedRacer 6 points 3 years ago
What a time to boycott Reddit! r/NCD probably looks like Randy from the Over Logging South Park episode!
SlowNPC 5 points 3 years ago
This thread claims Wagner basically took over Rostov
SilentStorms 5 points 3 years ago
Putin was apparently supposed to speak an hour ago, but I can't find information on it anywhere
Ph0mX 4 points 3 years ago
(The Guardian):
Yevgeny Prigozhin says in a new video message that all military sites in the Russian city of Rostov-on-Don are under the Wagner mercenary groupās control, Reuters is reporting ā¦ Prigozhin says it that does not impede Russiaās conduct of what it calls a āspecial military operationā in Ukraine.
downpunxx 4 points 3 years ago
"Small arms clashes reported near Pavlovsk of Voronezh region, truck is on fire on highway, reports of tanks."
downpunxx 2 points 3 years ago
Explosions and smoke in the Voronezh region, which is on the M-4 heading to Moscow.
downpunxx 3 points 3 years ago
Over 350km north of Rostov in Voronezh Oblast, it appears that a separate group of Wagner forces are pushing north on the M4 highway, engaging Russian forces outside of Pavlovsk at the moment.
DVD 2 points 3 years ago
https://finance.yahoo.com/... They have completely taken Voronezh, and are allegedly moving to Volgograd and Krasnodar now
MoltenBoron 2 points 3 years ago
The Youtube channel Agenda Free TV has been covering the story nonstop for 12 hours now. The host is a news junkie.
downpunxx 4 points 3 years ago
cheers, i think my confusion was brought about by my changing my default language in settings from endlish to undefined, wow, for a second there it seemed as if the mods or admins simply toasted all the posts i was seeing previously including all of mine and my comments. lol, that was truly bizarre but all good now
Rosriv 1 point 3 years ago
I guess weāll finally see where the āaverage Russianāsā loyalty lies, especially after Putinās address. But I sincerely donāt believe many people will join the coup. Weāve seen their true colours alright. If they switch, itāll only be if and when Putin is surrounded in his bunker or in exile.
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