[EU 'age verification'] [Spec]: Proposal to introduce a mandatory alternative that does not require a specific OS.
2 months ago by roundabout to c/linux
Yes, it is my post, and I am trying to find a reason why it won't work. Sadly, without such a solution, it will be impossible to use many Internet services without having an Android/iOS.
A header that says “user is under 18, no nsfw content” should generally be fine and should be sufficient, or websites could report a tag list like “tag: 18+ reason: explicit nudity” for the client to filter.
However, that will soon inevitably become “lgbtq content is inherently mature” which is not fine, but probably in the for parents to decide bucket.
Ultimately, parents need to fucking parent. That’s the problem. But im fine making on device private parental controls better/easier.
A header that says “user is under 18, no nsfw content” should generally be fine and should be sufficient, or websites could report a tag list like “tag: 18+ reason: explicit nudity” for the client to filter.
Voluntarily, not mandated by the government; and then without actual verification requirements.
The problem with this is that it is entirely subjective
Yes, exactly.
Which is why nobody but barbers and their kids should be exposed to this. The idea the government should decide what’s censored via some arbitrary system is insane.
But if a parent says “I don’t want my kid seeing porn or using instagram” they should have the on device tools to enable that.
If a shitty bigoted parent says “I don’t want my kid getting any ideas from trans stuff” that shouldn’t set a national precedent that no kid can read about trans stuff. That would be insane.
That is one shitty parent enforcing shitty rules in their own house, and our society has historically just accepted that as their own right to be shitty.
We don't need any age verification if parents just parebt their kinds and have good parental controls.
And that's at least partially their responsibility. The only thing the governments and EU should be expected to do is provide multi-platform tools and manuals that the general population can be reasonably expected to use.
I got blocked from cloudflare for trying to download my dishwasher’s user manual from the manufacturer’s own website today. That was “suspicious behaviour” to them.
So yes, internet services are becoming impossible to use right now.
No, I had to use a different website and do a captcha every page on my computer.
My IP was banned from the manufacturer website, so all my devices didn’t work.
By the way, I'm indeed having trouble using modern, enshittified apps and services. A friend wanted to use their Netflix account and my tablet just shows a black screen, Linux only shows 720p after installing some extras... One of my apps on the phone recently stopped working, because it's not verified by Google... Some never worked... I can't use some services because some shitty company wants my private phone number, and I'm not gonna provide it to them... It's definitely a thing in the modern world.
The thing is, age verification as it comes up in politics on a regular basis isn't about protecting children or anything. It's about control. Locking things down more and more, plus more internet surveillance. Maybe getting a foot in the door, though I'd argue the door is wide open already. It's basically the same thing I already experience every other day with my devices and slightly more privacy oriented lifestyle...
I don't want it, but if it does exist, it should be open!
This was already suggested over a year ago. You linked to the GH issue in your post. The EU has already made it abundantly clear that they do not care, even if it violates their own laws. Making a new issue is not going to convince them.
What IS going to convince them then? I am NOT using Android or iOS.
You could always refuse to comply
It won't count, and I can't isolate myself completely.
This sounds like OpenID with extra steps. A signed JWT could serve the same purpose without reinventing the wheel and inherit all privacy and scope controls out of the box. For example, a site can send a userid and challenge that I hash before authorising my identity provider to attach a signed age attestation to. Provider can't see the hash contents and the site only gets to see the pre-verified age in the JWT and nothing else identifiable (could even be a regional yes/no of-age value or content flags).
All that said, you'd be hard pressed to find any company that wouldn't immediately regect something that could not be collected, sold, or abused. The law was never about the children in the first place and they're not about to have a change of heart on that any time soon.
Sorry, I didn't read the specification. Does it contain something which (in)directly makes Android/iOS a requirement? I mean if it's just an open protocol how to talk to each other wile doing attestation... Maybe that's already part of it?! Most important thing I can come up with, would be to mandate public access to the API which grants the token, or connects to the eID, so those government servers actually accept connections from our Linux or FreeBSD phones...
And better do it for both parties. Otherwise they're going to come up with some new age verification laws, the phones are fine, but we all have to shut down our internet servers and online forums unless we're some big company.
It needs 'hardware attestation', so a closed set of OS. It would be much better without any age verification.
Thanks. "Hardware" was a good search term. But it's more complicated than that: "[...] SHALL rely on the device's native cryptographic hardware [...], when they are available." Shall means mandatory in the document. But seems someone put a loophole there. So I guess technically it doesn't "need" it?! But I'd also guess it'll be available for 99.9% of users.
I suspect we're going to see more of those hardware backed shenanigans anyway. Several entities are pushing for it. For other, unrelated causes as well. And it fits the purpose because now people don't really own their devices anymore. Which might already be a thing. I recently tried to back up and copy a phone... And, ...well... tough luck. Google is in control. There wasn't much I could do.
The thing is that while the EU standard does not limit hardware platforms, it does not mandate neutrality, so I can expect member states to only implement Android/iOS. In any case, I will not use that.
Hmmh. I think I'd go even further. Even if it was... I'm not going to run government software in some trusted zone of my hardware. I'm still trying to keep Google, Intel etc out... Only properly acceptable solution to me would be if they stop regulating at the specification level. I rather have my favorite operating system come up with the actual software implementation.
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@lemmy.world
Welcome to c/linux!
Welcome to our thriving Linux community! Whether you're a seasoned Linux enthusiast or just starting your journey, we're excited to have you here. Explore, learn, and collaborate with like-minded individuals who share a passion for open-source software and the endless possibilities it offers. Together, let's dive into the world of Linux and embrace the power of freedom, customization, and innovation. Enjoy your stay and feel free to join the vibrant discussions that await you!
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Stay on topic: Posts and discussions should be related to Linux, open source software, and related technologies.
Be respectful: Treat fellow community members with respect and courtesy.
Quality over quantity: Share informative and thought-provoking content.
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No. Stop being constructive about this. There should not be age verification on the Internet, at all, period, no compromises whatsoever. People who want it to exist do not deserve that anyone work constructively with them, they deserve only complete and fundamental opposition.
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