I believe veto was the thing that has destroyed the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth
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Zombie 7 points a month ago
It's not democracy if the majority can compel the minority to go against their will. Germany and France will become the dominant powers even more so than they already are which will ultimately result in the slow erosion and downfall of the EU being what it claims to stand for. Vetoes and consensus democracy were founding ideas for a reason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy
It's convenient to hold up Hungary as the evil example of misused vetoes but the solution to that is to move to suspend countries as a member, for acting in bad faith repeatedly. Using freedom from association. Not to destroy your democracy from within by making it less democratic.
khannie 26 points a month ago
It's not democracy if the majority can compel the minority to go against their will.
That's.... Exactly what democracy is though. Like Brexit is a great example of this. The majority forced the minority against their will.
I take the rest of your point though and agree. We just need to get past the "one or two arseholes" issue. I'd be happy with some kind of supermajority decision making process.
mysteryhumpf 7 points a month ago
Qualified majority makes sure that even without veto France and Germany don’t become dominant.
motogo 4 points a month ago
You're absolutely right and I do agree. At the same time what this is about is not about many smaller countries getting dominated by big countries. This is about prohibiting foreign powers to bribe their way into power in EU via puppets in a single EU country. As a citizen in a small country I have no concerns that our neighbours in also smaller countries will not agree on certain political decisions where Germany and France may have a different persuasion. If so I naturally would expect a diplomatic consensus would be found.
ExLisper 7 points a month ago
Veto was put in place so that smaller countries wouldn't have to worry that after joining EU bigger countries will outvote and exploit them. I think requiring unanimity is fine in some cases but EU should have mechanisms to move on without some members if they object. Trade deals? Unanimity required. Sanctions on foreign countries? Majority decides. Military aid? Majority decides.
UnfortunateShort 3 points a month ago
I feel like you could also provide protection for smaller countries through law and the ECJ, or legislative procedures/instruments other than vetos. For example laws to prevent decisions that are overwhelmingly negative for few countries, processes that direct compensation to countries negatively affected by laws, or a veto leading to a compulsory mediation process rather than a full stop.
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Good I really hope this happens. Vetos will destroy the EU. It’s not democracy if one autocrat can stop everything.
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