Why isn't Worlds Without Number more popular? It's a great fantasy OSR-style game with a great skill system.

8 days ago by Enfors to c/rpg

I sometimes hear Worlds Without Number being mentioned, but it's usually as a world-building tool, since the main book has lots of good tables for that. I rarely hear anyone talking about it as a game.

I only really learned what it is recently. It's a lot like Old School Essentials but with a proper skill system (you can choose which skills to increase when you level up, etc) and a feats system (although they call them "foci") which you can use to customize your character.

It does have a weird class system, though. It's based on three base classes: Mage, Expert, and Warrior. There's also Adventurer, but what that basically means is being multiclassed. So from those three classes you customize your character to become more specialized. Want to be a monk? Sure, pick the Warrior class (or the Expert class if you want more skill points) and then pick the Unarmed Combatant feat. It gives you better unarmored AC, and makes your unarmed attacks basically as good as a sword, etc. There are other foci which basically turns your Mage into a cleric, and so on.

I also find the combat to be better than, say D&D 5+E, with more types of actions to choose from in combat.

So, like the title says - to me, this game is great. And it surprises me that I see so few people talking about it. The basic edition, which has about 90% of the content of the full edition I think, is free on DriveThruRPG (non-affiliate link).

juergen_hubert 10 points 8 days ago

I will buy any Sine Nomine Publishing books unseen for their amazing worldbuilding tools, but I'm not particularly fond of OSR rules as a whole. I can deal with D&D 5E or Pathfinder 2E, but beyond that I have little interest in level-and-class systems.

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Sanctus 6 points 8 days ago

Its probably the class system holding it back. I think its cool when its like a soda machine style system. You just pour in however much you want of that thing. But it seems most people like to "choose an archetype". They want to see wizard, mage, warrior, druid, all that stuff as something to pick cause thats easy and they know they get what they want (or close). They dont want to cook it from scratch.

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Enfors 3 points 8 days ago

Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth in that. It was probably a mistake to make tha class system like it is... It's sort of hard for a beginner to figure out of they can make a druid or monk as it is now...

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Sanctus 1 point 8 days ago

Nah dont ever say that this class system is so fuccen sicc it makes me cry.

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Enfors 1 point 8 days ago

Why do you like it?

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Sanctus 6 points 8 days ago

I like to be able to pick what I want and only what I want. I think the classical way of doing it like in DND is extremely restrictive and forces everyone into boxes. This way offers nearly infinite diversity in infinite combinations and I dig it.

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snek_boi 5 points 8 days ago

Based on what you said, here are my reactions. Maybe they’re informative (or maybe not!):

Loci/skills: this adds cognitive load compared to having minimal stats, like in Cairn. It’s also more cognitive load than something like Shadowdark’s no skills (since there are no skill checks).
More options for combat and better combat than 5e: When I hear this I think this might mean crunchy combat. And that means more cognitive load.

I want to clarify that having complicated systems is not negative by itself. Cognitive load is relative to what people learn. If players are willing to learn a system well, then complicated games could be exactly what they want to play.

But I’ve had new players think Nimble is too complicated, when it seems trivial to me. That is why I favor systems that are even simpler than Nimble: Knave 2e, Cairn, Shadowdark…

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Apepollo11 3 points 7 days ago

Stars Without Number is the equally solid Sci-Fi equivalent. My players like their fantasy as DnD, but I plan to win them over with this.

I love the ship combat mechanics - everybody mans a different station according to their skills.

I also love the way that the galaxy keeps going outside of what the players are doing.

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qarbone 3 points 7 days ago

I also love the way that the galaxy keeps going outside of what the players are doing.

Is Stars Without Numbers packaged with rules to facilitate this, somehow?

Because that's just something a good GM should be doing, regardless.

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Enfors 2 points 7 days ago

I'm not the one you replied to, but yes, I believe it is. At least Worlds Without Number - which is based on Stars Without Number - has such tools.

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qarbone 2 points 6 days ago

Can you recall any specific examples of those mechanics? Not an interrogation, just curiosity.

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Enfors 2 points 5 days ago

On page 324 in the base Worlds Without Number book, there's the "Factions and the Faction Turn" section which has mechanics for keeping track of factions, their resources, and what they do.

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Lonesome_Lorakian 1 point 4 days ago

Also not who you replied to, but I had a quick look at what I could find online.

It is a pretty deep system, where factions take their actions in the background in turns every ingame month or adventure. They all have their own stats, bases of operation, assets, goals, etc. and can attack each other, expand, gain influence or wealth and a whole lot of other things.

Basically its a "the GM plays a strategy game by themselves behind the scenes" approach. Personally, I think its a bit too involved for its purpose unless you really enjoy playing that solo game in addition to all the other game prep.

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Enfors 3 points 7 days ago

Yes, I love that Worlds Without Number have tools for deciding what factions and important NPCs do in the background while the PCs are doing other things. It's been my intention to create my own tools like that, but I think I'm going to try these tools first - both for my own solo play in WWN, but also for my Pathfinder 2E campaign that I run in the same world.

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TribblesBestFriend 3 points 8 days ago

Yeah great game. People prefer old TTRPG philosophies I guess which bring them to DnD

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Ziggurat 2 points 8 days ago

At least in my local community, with 50 % of the games being D&D/pathfinder

D&D/Pathfinder >> Local games >> Other big names RPG (Vampire/Chtulhu) >> PBTA >> OSR and not being translated make it even less popular

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Texas_Hangover 2 points 8 days ago

Not sure how foci is pronounced, but in my head I'm hearing 'fuck eye.'

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calamitycastle 5 points 7 days ago

Foe-kai, like cacti or fungi.. A plural of focus

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spittingimage 2 points 8 days ago

I like it, and I'll suggest to my group when we finish our Pathfinder campaign in a couple of years.

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