What was your favorite instance of combat-as-war?

7 days ago by AHemlocksLie to c/dnd

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/72779747

Maybe it's not the best term for it, but it's the one I'm most familiar with. It's generally used in contrast to combat-as-sport. Combat-as-sport is when combat is treated as a fair and balanced contest of skills and abilities. The DM provided the fight, therefore the fight must be viable, therefore if we play it smart, we should be able to win. Combat-as-war is when you may not know if the DM gave you a fair fight, and even if they did, fuck fair, we want to wake up tomorrow, and the 50/50 odds of that from fair aren't what we're after, so lay traps and ambushes, weaponize every aspect of the terrain, and overall make sure you could smite anything short of the gods themselves in spite of your level, not because of it. Tucker's Kobolds are a classic case of combat-as-war, but waged by the enemy instead of the players. They're deeply entrenched, they've weaponized the terrain to the best of their abilities, and despite their pitiful HD, their tactics and coordination can strike fear into the hearts of mid-to-high level PCs.

I'm trying to get some friends to embrace the OSR style, and I think this is something they could use a new perspective on. They're used to playing the latest edition of D&D, and they get creative sometimes, but they focus so much on their character's skills and abilities, they overlook what the scenario provides them. So what has your group done? How'd you pull the BBEG down several levels earlier than the DM planned? How did you rapidly convert that random encounter into a random loot roll?

FuglyDuck 8 points 7 days ago

Well. The flavor wasn't entirely "war" per se, but the the campaign was pitched as a season of American Gladiator meets the Minotaur of Crete's Labyrinth. Each session was a one shot with the goal of getting and living for as long as you can. The winner is the last person standing. Each session, they got to start over with everything.

they had draw their own maps. There was fog of war. there were patrols moving about and the potential for random encounters (the random encounters were triggered based on a dice roll- a d20 for the outer rings, and a d2 for the inner most ring. a second d20 determinted what they were facing... if the encounter had already been rolled, it goes to the next) they had some sending stones so they could talk to the others... including other competitors... (or so the announcer told them at any rate.)

they started off the labyrinth with a very restrictive amount of gold each session, and had to buy their starting gear, or rely on drops. weapons and such also had durability so they couldn't just evade combat in the outer rings.

it was fun. it was chaotic. it was entertaining.

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Deadlytosty 5 points 6 days ago

That is a really awesome premise! Hoe did the randomness of the labyrinth work? I tried mazes in sessions, but it always felt a bit arbitrary as they would just say "we hug the left wall". Was the maze shifting? How was it describes?

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FuglyDuck 4 points 6 days ago

I tried mazes in sessions, but it always felt a bit arbitrary as they would just say “we hug the left wall”. Was the maze shifting? How was it describes?

the maze was not shifting, but it also wasn't a true maze in the sense that there was one continuous wall with no gaps. (IE following a single wall would lead to walking the same loop.) The maze's gaps were constructed such that doing so would keep you in whatever ring you were in.

the maze itself was static, but that didn't really matter cuz they suck at making their own maps. (or note taking in general. I record the audio of each session and give them speech-to-text transcripts that they never look at unless I give them a very good reason to.)

The maze was essentially broken into rooms (even if I described it as a continuous hallway,) Each section of the maze constituting we use oldschool dungeon turns for non-combat (which is about ten minutes) when exploring dungeons, and each section is the area they can technically cover in a single dungeon turn.

Theres a few general actions they could take-

  1. explore.
  2. pass through.
  3. rest.
  4. combat.

exploring might come up with loot of some type- health potions, useful items. maybe gold (which could be used at the start of the next session for better starting gear.) or scrolls and stuff. Maybe they find interesting wayfinding symbols that lead them into traps. (yeah. I'm not that nice. There's no treasure without risk.) (mostly there isn't treasure.)

Passing through gets you into the next section.

resting got a bit wonky and needed some tweaking between sessions, but it was a very short rest- dungeon turns are about ten minutes of in-game time where a short rest is about 1 hour and a long rest is at least 8 hours. we essentially settled on getting 2 actions/spellslots that would reset on short rest, or one long-rest spell slot instead.

Combat is, well. self explanatory, except we used some 'expedited' combat turns. It was very fast paced combat so we didn't get too bogged down in it. (the murder hobo loved this.) Because it was basically one player against my cohort of NPCs, so there didn't need to be a lot of conversation or table talk. it was easy to keep the dice rolling, so to speak.

it needs to also be said that there different things that could trigger a combat. the center of the labyrinth was a boss that was ultimately unbeatable. (though the bard made the best go of it, managing to seduce the poisonous plague slime... he died from around 36 new and interesting diseases and 28 different kinds of poison.)

there were the roving patrols that were moving along a path I could see (and there was an awareness check whenever they got close to the PC. the roving patrols were actually the most dangerous, largely because they would come in as you were finishing up the last combat and such like. These were the gladiators (complete with the excessive muscles, spandex and sock-improved mooseknuckles. we're never going to forget the moment the Murder Hobo asked why they always had an extra pair of socks...)

the goal, is to keep moving and stay away from the roving pats, trigger enough combat rounds that you kept yourself up in gear, rest enough to keep your action economy viable and do everything in your power to stay out of the center room. And then there were the random encounters.

Hoe did the randomness of the labyrinth work?

so, to preface this, they didn't know how the mechanics worked at the start. they had sending stones that characters could use to talk to other characters- and incidentally the gladiators, some of whom were in with them. Not that they knew they were gladiators... they presented themselves initially as other contestants. During rests and exploration, they would be free to talk with whoever. If they said something 'I just passed an ugly sphinx statue!', the gladiators would, for example, know where they were and try to find them. the gladiators would, on occasion tell them things. give them advice. (sometimes, it was even good advice.)

they had to build their map as they went, and they could only see the current status of the section they were in, and the roving patrols were liable to move traps around just for the fun of it.

each dungeon turn, I would roll an encounter check. a nat 1 would trigger an encounter. the outer-most ring would use a d20. then inwards from there, a d12, d8, d6, d4 and d2. if nat1 was rolled, then I would roll a d20 with a list of potential encounters. (this was described as being portalled into the labyrinth on top of them.) if, lets say we had a sixteen and they had already had that encounter, they'd go down the list until an encounter they hadn't had. If they were clear through to 20, it comes back to the start. if they had 20 encounters.

Each encounter was difficult enough that not using spell slots liberally was a risk. If you went past 10 turns, the gladiators would hear the fighting and come towards you. All. of the gladiators, except the center boss room.

the goal was to survive each sessions as long as possible, winning entailed being the last one standing.

as far as how I actually described the labrynth itself, the walls were largely uniform, though there might be the occasional pictograms or wayfinding markers or other puzzles for them to play with. (including a few that were just there to waste time. like giant rotary abacuses, or one that was described as a caledescope that you'd have to look into and align the gaps. it would then tattoo "idiot" on their forehead one letter at a time. those were 'align the disk' like puzzles they got to work on, on their own.)

the floor changed, on occasion, from being 'sandy' to some kind of flagstone, to tiled mosaics, to quick sand. the walls were tall enough to avoid letting them misty step or whatever out.

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Deadlytosty 3 points 6 days ago

Wow thanks for the detailed write up. It sounds like a really fun and well thought out way to play. I will definitely steal parts of it for a future campaign :D

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zakobjoa 3 points 6 days ago

I dm a group I specifically started on the premise of "I will use every rule and sub-system to make this harder for you." It fucking sucks for the PCs – constant exhaustion; tracking food, water, weight; the whole shebang. Campaign is set in the desert, so obviously they can't cast "Create water" – where would be the fun in that? I have permission to kill off PCs if they fuck up or just happen to die in combat. The encounters are tough as nails. I could make them harder by playing the enemies like I would in a TT wargame, but I mostly roleplay appropriate behavior. If I did try, I could probably wipe them, or at least one or two, with almost every encounter.

They all love it. All of them are experienced players, though. I wouldn't put new players through this absolute wood chipper.

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