Chinese EV imports pose privacy, security and industry risks: experts

6 days ago by Sunshine to c/canada

Researchers, industry leaders urge Ottawa to develop rules to protect consumers as Canada opens its market to Chinese EVs

karlhungus 53 points 6 days ago

I don't see how this isn't a problem for every car regardless of country origin.

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Malica 9 points 6 days ago

It is, all of them are collecting and selling all of our data. The article I read said every car company they investigated and it was a lot.

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JustPlainDave 4 points 6 days ago

Oh, it is. Best bet is to never have anything new enough to have a screen.

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karlhungus 3 points 6 days ago

Here I am installing my own screen and carrying my stupid phone with me at all times.

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JustPlainDave 1 point 6 days ago

The only reason I say a screen is that cars with a screen always have GPS connectivity. So either you buy a base model early 2010s car without it, or you get something older. Because then, it you're truly concerned about being tracked you can leave your phone at home. Plus, no Internet or satellite connectivity means it can't be remotely shut down. Of course, you'd want to buy it cash so the dealership or finance company aren't tracking you for repossession purposes.

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karlhungus 2 points 6 days ago

Oh I got mine in a private sale, still carry phone with me. Think the GPS is only in my phone tho. Do wish I could get an electric without thw tracking though

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skujcici7755 3 points 5 days ago

China have a well established plan to perform cyber-espionage and foreign interference. They have no qualms about it

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karlhungus 2 points 5 days ago

You can say this about USA just as easily.

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skujcici7755 1 point 4 days ago

No you couldn't. https://www.fbi.gov/...

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karlhungus 0 points 4 days ago

Fuck yes I can, and its pathetically naive to think they aren't.

Also linking to us gov website, may as well link to a trump video.

To be clear I'm not saying the Chinese govt doesn't do these things, I'm saying they are all doing it.

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GreyEyedGhost 2 points 5 days ago

Sure, it's kind of racist, but if it gets them to pass some laws on what data car manufacturers can collect, that's still a win. And if they go extra racist and only restrict what data Chinese cars collect, then I just have more reason to buy a Chinese car.

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avidamoeba 2 points 5 days ago

A competent regulatory regime would be nice wouldn't it. 😔

We're so far away from that, we don't even control the safety of food coming across our borders.

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Canajan 1 point 6 days ago

Right, it’s like they don’t think the Chinese have access to Google Maps where you can literally do street view and gain knowledge as well.

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CapuccinoCoretto 24 points 6 days ago

Everything true about Chinese risks is also true of American cars.

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ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace 20 points 6 days ago

So do American cars. What else is new?

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kent_eh 9 points 6 days ago

So do American cars. What else is new?

I don't like it regardless of where the car company is from.

It's my car. You don't get to use it to snoop on me. I don't care which country the snoops are in.

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ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace 5 points 6 days ago

Amen

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nik282000 -2 points 6 days ago

The US has to come up with court orders and warrants to get data from third parties like GM or Ford, and those companies are not compelled to collect any particular dataset. Every Chinese business is, by default, required to both capture all data and share it with the Chinese government, and they are required not to disclose that they were collecting and sharing that data.

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ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace 8 points 6 days ago

So? I the US the data is sent to third parties with your géo-localisation data and driving data, along with other personal info. Third parties like insurance companies, marketing companies, AI, etc. It's like your car is essentially Meta

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avidamoeba 2 points 6 days ago

Exactly, gov't access isn't nearly the main problem as a lot of our lives are controlled by private corporations. Besides, the gov't can buy access to this data from data broker firms.

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ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace 1 point 6 days ago

Bingo.

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Scotty 1 point 5 days ago

@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca

gov’t access isn’t nearly the main problem ...

It definitely is a main problem, at least in democratic countries. Spying on citizens without reason violates the constitution.

But China isn't a democracy but rather a dictatorship. That makes the situation even worse, and privacy isn't by far the only violation of human rights committed by the government in Beijing as we know.

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nik282000 -1 points 6 days ago

Tracking your driving habits is a privacy violation but not the biggest issue with Chinese cars. The Chinese government has unrestricted access to collected data AND they can compel manufactures to collect specific kinds of data. That turns Chinese cars into a fleet or war drivers.

With thousands of vehicles recording every WiFi point and bluetooth device that passes in range you can track other devices and other vehicles that are not of Chinese origin. For example, a politician or members of that politician's entourage could have their phone's wifi and bt mac identified at a public event by a Chinese agent. From that point on they can be tracked anytime they pass within a hundred meters of a Chinese car. Even if the VIP is practicing good opsec their entourage may have a personal device that is identifiable. This would let the Chinese government get a heads up on meetings with businesses or other heads of state about which they would not have otherwise known.

And this is the most trivial example, it would require so little data transmission from each car that it could be hidden in regular diagnostic and update communications.

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Knoxvomica 3 points 6 days ago

Do you understand how many Chinese devices are already out there with all the same capabilities? I'm sorry but the west offshore those capabilities back in the 80s and 90s.

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ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace 2 points 6 days ago

I understand what you're saying. And you're right.

But I think you're missing the point.

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Dearth 0 points 6 days ago

How do you know the Chinese business are REQUIRED to capture ALL data? What constitutes "all" data?

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nik282000 2 points 6 days ago

National Intelligence Law of the People's Republic of China (2017)

Aritcle 7: "All organizations and citizens shall support, assist, and cooperate with national intelligence efforts in accordance with law, and shall protect national intelligence work secrets they are aware of."

Article 10: "As necessary for their work, national intelligence work institutions are to use the necessary means, tactics, and channels to carry out intelligence efforts, domestically and abroad."

The Chinese gov can tell it's auto manufactures to collect any data and they will. Non-compliance means being removed from your position of power are replaced with a more responsible figure.

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Shortstack 20 points 6 days ago

Another hit piece on the only affordable cars just because it’s from sCaRy cHiNa.

Meanwhile North American cars already track everything you do and sell it to your insurance company and anyone else willing to buy that data. No bad mouthing of the expensive domestic spy machines though.

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skujcici7755 2 points 5 days ago

Yes China poses no threat to domestic security. Nothing to see

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GrackleBirb 2 points 3 days ago

You need to learn Xi Jinping Thought. Luckily your car will educate you about how Tibetans and Uighurs are all just Han after all. Celebrate unity with us. You will become one with us.

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skujcici7755 1 point 2 days ago

Ha thank you comrade for that kind clarification. On reflection, I may have mis-spoke. After all, we are all Han in a sense. Even the sparrow should assimilate to the new normal.

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Scotty 1 point 5 days ago

The cheapest cars 'Made in China' following Carney's deal is Tesla. It comes at around 41k. The cheapest Chinese brands in Canada have a price tag of 120k. It's a high price for Canadians, but the Chinese workers who work in a 996 working culture and the victims of forced labour are paying a much higher price.

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avidamoeba 1 point 5 days ago

Tesla isn't even assembled in Canada. Use a better LLM.

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Scotty 2 points 5 days ago

I edited the typo. It seems that you are - once again - arguing in bad faith. That's waste of time.

(35 Pollard St Richmond Hill , ON , L4B 1A8 Canada.)

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avidamoeba 2 points 5 days ago

Pot meet kettle. Now stop wasting your time.

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Ninja876 10 points 6 days ago

This why Tesla's are banned in any strategic areas in China. They worry about the same play that they are going to do when the BYDs enter Canada. Rolling spy machines.

Also the cars are easy to hack...

https://youtu.be/GwilMc5KHmo

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Freeposity 12 points 6 days ago

I'm looking forward to the open source upgrades to these vehicles. I'm sure someone will try to say it's a safety issue to run your own code instead of the manufacturer's.

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Ninja876 9 points 6 days ago

Jail breaking these would be amazing. F their subscriptions for heated seats and more HP, I have all the options now!

My guess is the BYDs would be the easiest considering how bad their security is atm. I know Tesla is a bunch of ass hats when it comes to self repair. They would lose their mind if they lost control of their cars.

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Freeposity 3 points 6 days ago

Yeah Tesla voids your warranty and then tries to brick your car.

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Ninja876 4 points 6 days ago

Yup, they went after that guy that fixed his battery w/ less than 20 dollars in plumbing parts from damage hitting some simple road debris. The only option they gave him was a new batter for an ungodly amount of money.

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Sunshine 7 points 6 days ago

C’mon Honda make EVs already!

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Lemmyoutofhere 8 points 6 days ago

Good luck with that. Honda is halting EV development.

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Sunshine 3 points 6 days ago

Honda and Sony are becoming really unpopular eh

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Lemmyoutofhere 6 points 6 days ago

Japanese car companies ignored the shift to EV, and now they are going out of business. Nissan will be the first to go, followed by Honda.

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Sunshine 4 points 6 days ago

I just saw some Japanese people repeating misinformation on EVs on the Reddit

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vinceman 0 points 5 days ago

Nissan has been leading the EV charge for over a decade lol.

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Binturong 6 points 6 days ago

Our government should look to Mexico and follow their lead and just produce its own vehicles instead of infinitely deferring to private and foreign interests and partnerships that inevitably lead to huge losses for the Canadian taxpayers. Why hand all that production and industriousness off to a foreign interest of any sort? Tax dollars and canadian materials could support the production and secure lives for Canadian workers, and all their downstream wage spending, and profits from vehicles stay in the country instead of going to some stock buybacks for a company that could actually jsut fuck off any old day they choose as we've been seeing as a result of US tarrifs.

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Lemmyoutofhere 5 points 6 days ago

So do amerikkkan cars.

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IrateAnteater 5 points 6 days ago

And ironically enough, it's the American brand data that's actually more damaging on a personal basis. I'm guessing that the CCP wouldn't be selling my driving data to my insurance company, so that they can jack up my rates. We already know that the American brands are doing exactly that.

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orbituary 5 points 6 days ago

Everyone is scared of Chinese spying, meanwhile they use TikTok and tell their life stories to LLMs.

This is idiotic.

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betanumerus 3 points 5 days ago

The solution is to build EVs locally. North American carmakers' dismissal of EVs is the direct causes of these "privacy, security and industry risks" from foreign makers. "I choose not to satisfy EV demand, therefore I fear someone else does with trojan horses".

Make North American EVs competitive with foreign EVs, just as you (government) make North American fossil fuels competitive with foreign fossil fuels.

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ILikeBoobies 2 points 5 days ago

Made in Canada*

North American just means American, and those need to be banned from our roads for how much spying they do.

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krakloskewm 2 points 4 days ago

The good news is that the police in Canada think that technology is magic, so if someone does hack your car they won't do anything about it.

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zbyte64 2 points 6 days ago

One fix for this is to have the data centers that do the data collection be located in your country and subject to your laws. China would love to cooperate on that front but it wouldn't protect the profits of certain industries.

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kent_eh 1 point 6 days ago

Another fix is to not allow cars to track and report data back to anyone.

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zbyte64 1 point 6 days ago

No OTA updates then. I wonder if the dealerships would view that as a positive.

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kent_eh 1 point 5 days ago