Tankies hate this one weird trick

I don't like spending this much time arguing against campism but they just keep talking at me.

Yeller_king 27 points 2 days ago

If you value any economic system above democracy, you'll end up being authoritarian no matter what your preferred system is.

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SethW -7 points 2 days ago

How do you justify democracy when people are voting for life to be worse instead of better, even to the point of undermining the democratic process itself? Sure we could argue at some point democracy had the effect of improving living conditions but should we expect that to be true forever in all circumstances?

I dont believe that democracy is valuable as an end unto itself, it is a tool that should serve its people and if it stops doing that we shouldn't be dogmatic about it. Authoritarian systems certainly arent the way, and I would guess what we need doesnt even have a name yet.

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IamMoonPie 17 points 2 days ago

Democracy works, the problem is we don’t have a true democracy. We have corporate capitalist democracy. It’s a system that makes most people think it’s democracy — but it’s not.

Democracy and capitalism can not exist in the same stratosphere if democracy is to succeed.

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Vreyan31 9 points a day ago

The conditions under which democracy works are well understood.

You need a populace educated on how the society and government works at least in its broad strokes. That education should also instill a preference for democracy and describe the pitfalls of other systems.

An independent media system to keep the voter base reasonably informed.

Systems in place to prevent corruption.

Every single one of these have been eroded over 1-2 generations by crony capitalism to enable wealth accumulation.

I would not say that democracy in the US is a reasonable example of what democracy can look like. It is what happens when democracy is being deliberately sabotaged.

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DillDough 1 point a day ago

You also need a fully open and transparent government, any information being classified top secret or anything of the sort means you cannot have a democracy. No secrets can be allowed, ever. And really the only way to reasonably guarantee stuff like that is to make officials surrender all privacy related rights for life, just permanent publicly open insight into every aspect of your life, past, present, and future if you want to pursue office. I'd argue for attaching 24/7 live streamed cameras to them during their time in office as well. Obviously this would only currently work for rich countries with obscene military expenditures, like the US, but if the big guys were to do it then it would eventually be safe enough for the rest of them.

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beanburger -3 points 2 days ago

Democracy works

Citation needed

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IamMoonPie 8 points 2 days ago

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