The problem, I think, is that people think Neelix is this vapid obnoxiously happy character.
Once you're a bit older or if you've been through shit, you realise he's suffering from severe trauma and mental illness, and that the whole jovial extroversion thing is often a coping mechanism. He's been through a lot, so he doesn't want others to be sad.
Far more complex than you initially think.
As someone with relatives who survived the holocaust, I recognise the type.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Not me. The.older I get the more I think it's creepy that when we meet him he's dating a 2 year old. As a teenager I bought the "they develop faster" hand wave, but if you think about it regardless of how quickly kes's species develops physically, they still only have a level of experience and knowledge you can learn in 2 years. Dating someone that naive is a very rapey power imbalance. I can't believe they allowed him around Naomi. Should have thrown him out the airlock.
Vulcans may live longer, but they mature at about the same rate, reaching adulthood in their early to mid 20s. I'm not saying humans (or talaxians) are superior to kes's race, only that there's only so much you can learn in 2 years. It's more like a 50 year old human dating a 17 year old human, it's creepy and exploitative.
On the surface, yeah, it's pretty bad, and if Neelix was a human I wouldn't excuse it (cough cough TOM), but Talaxians had much more cultural exchange and knowledge of the Ocampa. I can criticize the writers for not properly dealing with the squick factor, but in-universe I have to give characters the benefit of the doubt and take them at their word.
Ocampans really do mature and accumulate knowledge and understanding at over ten times the rate of humans. They have passed all galactic cultural standards for being able to consent, and are granted the ability to choose for themselves. They clearly also have some telepathic abilities, so it's likely those come into play in passing on knowledge and understanding from one generation to the next, allowing them to progress through maturity exponentially faster than most other species.
And since Talaxians have cultural history with them, Neelix has enough of a rich understanding of that dynamic to make an informed choice that has nothing predatory about it.
Kes could out-maneuver almost anyone on board both intellectually and emotionally, but she also has enough gravity to not seem either fey or condescending about it. I don't see any power imbalance there. If anything she's the one taking advantage of Neelix in order to escape the drudgery of her own life. She cares for him, but it's obvious from the eventual outcome that she doesn't really see him as a life partner so much as an opportunity.
I do not enjoy watching Neelix very often, but I understand why the crew liked him so much. He's just so unconditionally kind and always trying to make everyone smile. I bet it was really cool to try all his alien foods too
Two of my fav VOY episodes are centered around Neelix. He's one of the best characters on that show. No need to argue with me about it, because deep down we all know I'm right. ^^
Jetrel and Mortal Coil, of course. My fav Tuvok episode is probably Meld, but mainly because I loved the plot around Suder and the actor of Suder is great in general. I've got nothing against Tuvok, but I don't really get Vulcans and their logic only attitude. It's why I thought the arc around Tuvix was interesting, but agreed, the character made a lot of folks very uncomfortable. Still, I think they should've used the transporter to "duplicate" Tuvix and devide the copy instantly back to Neelix and Tuvok. ^^
Glad you liked my picks. :)
Oh, I'm fully aware of the Vulcan "logic only" background, but to me watching them behave and act the way they do, I'd rather watch paint dry. ^^
Regarding the double Tuvix plot: It's why you have to split the copy Tuvix the same second he's being created. Not aware of wtf was going on, Tuvok and Neelix show up again and are like: "Who the hell is that lad?" :D
Edit: Nah, you're grand and I liked your objection. I had to explain further how to avoid that problem in the first place.
Edit 2: I loved Spock's brother Sybok. He had some spice in his jam.
Oh yes, Rise was fricking great, too!
Edit: Thanks a mil, re-watching that episode right now! :D
Brad Dourif is awesome, I love his character in everything I’ve seen him in. His Babylon 5 episode was crazy good too.
Sudor's arc is great. Have you seen Babylon 5? Because Brad Dourif plays a monk in 'passing through Gethsemane' and it's also an excellent performance. Probably my favorite guest character in the series.
Yes, Bab5 is one of my favourite shows of all time and Dourif's acting was on point. Same with Walter Koenig in each episode featuring Alfred Bester.
Adam Savage has a very similar story meeting Robin Williams on the set of Bicentennial Man and getting a essentially a private show from him for a few minutes. Robin Williams was an amazing human being, flaws and all.
Not hate, but we can't just ignore Neelix's creepy controlling nature/jealousy over Kes.
Unlike Gowron, I can forgive, but I do not forget.
Uh, yeah he did? He was still acting creepy and controlling regardless of his motives.
Kurn has the opposite problem
Big oof. Right in all eight heart chambers.
Theres another comment in this thread that has a transcript
I could read it just fine
I have a very dark sense of humor, and no problem making light of suicide. If that was meant to be a joke, it wasn't a good one. It came off more as a dark insult than anything.
I don't doubt there is a solid joke in there. But it needs work.
thanks for using Leebra!
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The older I get, the more I appreciate Neelix.
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