Gaza death toll tops 5,000, nearly half of them children: Officials
3 years ago by ira to c/worldnews
Israel has continued bombarding Gaza’s south despite telling 1.1 million people in the north of the besieged enclave to relocate there ahead of an expected ground offensive.
“We were displaced from Tal al-Hawa to Rafah at the request of the Israeli army, and this is what happened to us. My son is a 3-month-old martyr,” the father of a child killed in an attack in Rafah told Al Jazeera.
This sounds like apologia and the logic that will breed even more Hamas clones. Israel is the one committing this atrocity. They have the power to stop it. Don't remove that responsibility from them by saying it's just civilian casualties.
This is whataboutism but the same crowd has the opposite opinion when it come to Russia and Ukraine. And Ukraine didn't even shoot missiles at Russia first.
So it just appears to be alignment with certain groups and countries rather than honest worry about anyone's wellbeing.
SasquatchBanana
This sounds like apologia and the logic that will breed even more Hamas clones. Israel is the one committing this atrocity. They have the power to stop it. Don't remove that responsibility from them by saying it's just civilian casualties.
Did anything that you read register or did you just blindly imagine something defending Israel lol?
To militaries and the vast majority of western ethics... There's a huge mental difference between terrorist attacks that discriminately shoot innocent children and families, from bombing those who are unlucky and happen to be near the bad guy.
You're literally rationalizing Israel (and other countries like Russia and US) going in and killing children deliberately as unlucky. Israel knows they are killing children. The moment the fucking number of "casualties" is half children then they should fucking stop.
For places like this though, their hatred runs deep. Civilian casualties are part of the business when you're packed that deep and using innocent people as shields.
But, no, you aren't doing apologia. It's just part of the business! So let's turn around and ignore what's happening 🙌
1.67 "9/11"s worth of death, in retaliation for 0.47 "9/11"s worth of dead on Oct 7th.
Or, with 9/11= 2977 and the Iraq war killing 187,000 civilians, we get a ~63:1 misplaced retaliation vs. initial attack ratio. So the one could extrapolate from the 1400 dead on Oct 7th that 88,200 innocent people in Gaza will need to be killed to quench the IDF's rage.
Why not count the Afghans too? People keep forgetting that happened for some reason... Which is weird considering they were the first ones to be attacked in retaliation and Iraq wasn't an answer to 9/11...
People are ignoring the afghans are about to be openly genocided to the tune of 1.4 million by the Pakistani government.
Too busy focusing on Israel.
You missed something in your math there. IDF is considering the October 7th attack as "10 time worse than 9/11" so up those numbers close to 900,000. Maybe make it 911,911 for the fun propaganda value. With more than half of the 2.2 million Gaza population (although maybe we should start counting the West Bank killings as it is ramping up, too) being children and seeing how Israeli government doesn't discriminate , maybe they can quench their bloodthrist with young blood alone, even.
America has a population that is 35 larger than Israel. If America had lost the same percentage of their population as Israel did on Oct 7th, it would be ~49,420 dead, or the equivalence of 16 "9/11"s. That is why Biden said 10 times worse than 9/11.
Iraq currently has a population of 43.5 million. 187k is 0.42% of it's population. If we do it by percent of population, Gaza has 2 million people, so the retaliation would kill "only" 8,600.
A certain side thinks "they have no value if their skin is a brown hue"
Biden called it "Ten 9/11s" because of percent of population. I would have called it "0.47 9/11s", as each human life is equally valid. But as impact on the whole, Oct 7th was a larger percent of the population of the country than 9/11, so it is having a much larger impact with only half as many dead.
I also hope that the numbers that die in retaliation are as low as possible, and percent population numbers gave a smaller needed "revenge" killing. Wish it was zero, but we are, underneath it all, rage-full apes with explosives.
Israel has been governed by far right ultra-nationalist racists for decades now and Arabs are üntermensch in their eyes, especially Palestinians, hency why they have an Arab Israeli Citizenship separate from the Jewish Israeli Citizenship and with fewer rights and why they have very openly called them "human animals".
It's "Untermenschen", plural and the prefix doesn't have an umlaut.
It's also a misnomer because antisemitism is a central point of Nazism. The correct term here is "gentile", the Zionist version of infidel.
It's a class of people, so in the singular (i.e. "Subhuman"), though the correct way to do it in German would be Untermensch (i.e. first letter capitalized). This is consistent with how racial superiority mindsets dehumanize the "other" so they don't address them as individuals and instead will describe then as type of people hence singular (the type) not plural (multiple individuals).
If you look up the Nazi version of how they describe those they saw as inferior races, it's Der Untermensch, not Die untermenschen.
(Cheers for correcting my spelling, by the way).
The inherent racial superiority of one's own ethnic group is a common theme in far-right ideologies and the use of Untermensch by the Nazis was most definitelly not limited to Jews (ask any Slav or, even better, Roma).
Most definitelly from the outside the de facto behaviour of those in the Israeli government (and in other groups' such as the military and colonists) seems rooted in the broader feeling of cultural and racial superiority, transcending the "mere" religious kind, so in my opinion the use of Subhuman (or Untermensch, to show the cross-cultural ressonances) rather than merely "Gentile" or "Infidel" seems appropriate.
That said, whilst the rabid racism in Israel does ressonate with that in Nazi Germany, the broader expression of the far-right in the former is most definitelly not the same as in that historical latter and not just because the racial group they treat as superior, and those they treat as inferior, are different: so far Appartheid is the more correct form of describing the expression of racism through the machine of the State and Civil Society in Israel, IMHO, even if the underlying mindset when it comes to beliefs of inherent racial superiority is the same, because its' expression has been mainly through second class citizen treatment, bullying by the State or with endorsement of the State and frequent closing of eyes by the Authorities to murders across racial lines one way (but not the other) like in Appartheid, not outright extermination like in Nazism.
Hopefully it will not go beyond that, though once this new invasion of Gaza really gets going, it might very well be that we get a genocide of historical proportions, at which point merelly describing it as Appartheid will not be enough.
I remember protesting the Iraq war as a teen. What a fucking monster the U.S. has become.
That’s antisemitism /s
bEiNg PrO-pAlEsTiNe Is MeAn To JeWiSh PeOpLe
The previous mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau, ended their status as sister city with Tel Aviv over the systematic crimes from the state of Israel against Palestinians. The immediate reaction of the Israeli embassy was denouncing her as antisemitic, both in the media and in courts, which recently found her innocent.
The position that denouncing Israeli crimes is antisemitic has been the official position of Israel for decades, and that's a very dangerous game for the well-being of Jews in a world where actual nazis are slowly gaining power, because once you're run the term down through the ground, calling actual hate crimes against Jews "antisemitic" will no longer have any meaning.
The position that denouncing Israeli crimes is antisemitic has been the official position of Israel for decades,
At this point, that's just a template answer, not different than the template answers China delivers everytime someone says something about the Uygur genocide, the Hong Kong occupation, or claims over Taiwan.
If people want to tie their religious identity to a nation state and call me antisemetic when I criticize that nation state -- the same as I criticize any other nation state -- they are in fact trivializing the experience of those who experience actual antisemitism.
I'm sure they don't see it that way, but it's hard for me to see such an attitude as anything other than disrespectful of one's own history.
I'm German, it's so depressing that our nation's stance on this will always be: We stand 100% behind Israel.
Discussions exist and it's being debated a lot on TV. People are pretty much appalled, with what Israel is doing.
Anyone, that feels the least amount of compassion towards other people, is not ok with this. Disregarding religion, nationality, race or whatever community they belong to. There's no way to justify this, no way at all.
Edit: 5000 dead and they haven't even sent in any troops yet.
Let this shit sink in.
Israel humiliated Biden during Obama's term when Biden went to visit Israel and suggested in soft words that they don't expand illegal settlements. Israel basically said screw you in the press conference, and Biden took it like an obedient slave. Really showed the world who holds his leash.
Tough cookies Jack, better vote for him again so he can invade Haiti in his second term.
Does the UN or some other more neutral org have numbers? I mean, the Gaza Ministry of Health kinda has incentive to exaggerate civilian casualties, just like the IDF has incentive to say "everyone in that playground we hit with that airstrike was an Islamic Jihad Terrorist".
While I definitely kind of agree with the sentiment. Just statistically. It would be hard for this to not be true. The numbers overall might be a little different. But considering the average person in Palestine is 18 to 19 years old. Age groups over that rapidly dwindling. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion that at least half, if not more, would be children.
That is a thought that terrifies me more than any other.
Yes 5000 is horrifically high. And if there's anything we've learned from watching the atrocities unfold over the last 70 years. Is that you don't believe either side without evidence.
Ukraine's total death toll is only 8000/9000 so far. 5000 in two weeks is genocidal.
it is such a weird angle to take, since the Gaza concentration camp is shut off from the rest of the world, without power. Journalists are not allowed in, neither are any and all humanitarian organizations.
Until the apartheid state open up the Gaza concentration camp, we will just have to take their word for it.
When Israel makes any claims, the outside world can in one way or another visit, inspect and verify.
If Israel wants more certainty on statistics of innocent dead people, they should end their siege.
You're absolutely right that there will be variance, and that each side has incentive to inflate death counts, etc. Other orgs will likely not produce their own numbers until after this mess is over. Check the Wiki pages or B'Tselem pages on previous assaults on Gaza to see how the numbers can vary, that'll give you an idea at least.
This gut wrenching. Fuck those in power responsible for this.
Humans once again going batshit crazy with mass murder riding on a wave of vengeance. It's a disease with no cure.
Shit like this is no small part of why I'd sooner serve crack that serve in the military. And there's not a single drop of sarcasm in that statement.
I’m honestly just so depressed.
Think of what Palestinians are going through if you feel this way. I had to stop looking at the corpses and small children being torn apart. But I don't regret it, it only made my resolve stronger to counter the lies.
And the hospital with 130 premature babies that are going to die soon? are we supposed to question the hospital personnel or reporting that?
Hospital or hospitals? It's reported by the "Health Ministry" which is controlled by hamas (terrorists), like anything else in Gaza.
We are not supposed to question if you don't like it. We are supposed to understand that this information comes from an unreliable source and act accordingly.
Work towards a bEtTer future I see..
Which is why war is the ultimate atrocity that humans can commit. Worse than child abuse, worse than rape - war is the result of sick minds corrupted beyond any hope of redemption.
I feel like war can be explained better than just the result of bad people doing bad things, and more so about contradictions. If, after all is said and done in this genocide, we are only able to deduce that the cause was bad people doing bad things, we aren't doing our due diligence. We'd be better off trying to understand how the contradictions between Israel and Palestine such as religion, material conditions, age, ethnicity, geopolitical stances... made genocide the only solution for Israel. And more importantly, how to avoid it. Theres too much history here for me to wave my hand and blame some enigmatic force of "evil".
In my view genocide is never justifiable and never excusable. Both sides are to blame for this horror. And the US for perpetuating it with more arms and munitions to keep the murders going on and on and on........
Do you think this is outside of the expected number of deaths at this point?
Israel usually kills 10-20 Palestinians for every Israeli killed, so we can expect about 15-30k total Palestinian deaths from this, most of whom will be civilians.
I expect the number of deaths per day is going to ramp up once the hospitals and food centers run out of resources.
My estimation predicted 88k, with a 63:1 ratio.
I mean you're right of course, buy even if they'd doubled the number... would 2500 deaths be ok?
I don't believe anything Hamas or Al Jazeera says at this point. They both outright lied about the hospital thing claiming claiming 10x the casualties, why would I believe them about this?
If Hamas cared about the lives of children, they wouldn't go murder a bunch of Israeli kids then hide behind a bunch of Palestinian kids. Hamas seems determined to maximize the number of civilian casualties on both sides, and now that Israel's fault?
I'm getting weary of repeating this ad nauseam. You don't need to take a side. Condemning Israel's behavior does not mean supporting Hamas'.
Which organization has the resources to send someone to check, that doesn't have an agenda?
I recognize that you're not explicitly defending Israel; you're merely criticizing one institution that operates under Hamas rule.
In Gaza?
I'm fairly confident that the Palestinian Authority has no real control of anything in Gaza. Fatah and Hamas literally had a minor civil war over the issue in 2006 and 2007.
Israel is using terrorist means. This time we are the terrorists
No personal attacks please.
Good luck destroying terrorist apologists from your basement.
@lemmy.ml
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Where are all those people wailing about Hamas being monsters for killing babies? This should make them even angrier and louder.
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