What is the best selfhostable messaging service for family?

3 years ago by greensky to c/selfhosted

I want to selfhost a messaging service for my family. It should be secure and have voice calling option, ideally. Thank you.

scott 28 points 3 years ago

Matrix. With its bridges you can "wire-in" networks like WhatsApp, Slack, Signal, Telegram, Discord, iMessage, SMS, e-mail, ... and have a single app that interacts with them all. You can have a single group chat with users from all those networks participating and no one would be any the wiser.

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wgs 3 points 3 years ago

From my experience (with Dendrite, not synapse, so keep that in mind), bridges create "fake" users to replicate your contacts on these platform as matrix users, and they are visible on the whole instance by all their users (but you might not be able to talk to them). Also, in puppeted mode (which is what you want to "replace" your app with matrix), only a single user can use the bridge at a time, so the other users cannot use it.

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scott 3 points 3 years ago

This is true but if you're self-hosting it's not that much bother to add additional copies of a bridge for other users (granted, it's not ideal).

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wgs 2 points 3 years ago

Bridges were not that easy to manage in my case (regarding process management, and ease of config deployment/reproductibility). It was on OpenBSD though, so your mileage may vary. And still, it leaks all of your contact informations to the other users of the server (like their phone number eventually), so definitely not suited for public instances.

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SirEDCaLot 1 point 3 years ago

Leaks contact information to the other users? Can you elaborate on that? I haven't heard anything like that

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peregus 2 points 3 years ago

We have to wait the interoperability that the EU (with the Digital Markets Act) has asked to the big tech. We will be able to use a single app to communicate to people that are on Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, iMessage, etc.

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Dusty 21 points 3 years ago

I host my own matrix instance for my wife, a few friends and I. It has worked great for us. They can either use a web app, or an app on their phone.

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randomguy2323 5 points 3 years ago

Hey , do you have a guide on how to host my own matrix server?

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Dusty 13 points 3 years ago

I used the official docker image: https://hub.docker.com/r/matrixdotorg/synapse/

My compose file looks like this: https://pastebin.com/3JYzAPr2

Pretty sure I just followed the instructions there.

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PoisonedPrisonPanda 4 points 3 years ago

how have you secured your server when opening your network to the outside?

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Dusty 6 points 3 years ago

I'm using a cloudflare tunnel for it. I also have crowdsec installed, only allow ssh keys and only from my IP (I have a static from my ISP), and no ports open other than the ones needed.

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PracticalParrot 1 point 3 years ago

Thanks for sharing. Couldn't get it to work but I'll try again with your compose file.

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ElkanNixed 21 points 3 years ago

I'm on Signal (obviously not self hosted) and even if I really wanted to move to another platform be it self hosted or yet another privacy focussed one, I can't ask my friends and family to move to another platform again. I already asked them to move away from WhatsApp, can't do it again..

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lemba 10 points 3 years ago

💯 this. It took me several years to get most of my friends, co-workers and family to Signal...

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peregus 1 point 3 years ago

At least you've been able drag them all to Signal. I've tried, but with no luck :(

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tvmole 1 point 3 years ago

I got my family onto Signal last winter and it works great for us. And half of them aren't even very techy. But the interface is a lot like SMS so it was an easy transition for them

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overzeetop 0 points 3 years ago

I feel you. My problems with Signal forced me back to iMessage (actually forced me off of android and back to iOS).

I’d never considered Self-hosted messaging. It might be fun to play around with, but I can’t handle the stress of ensuring six 9s uptime for family comms.

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ancoraunamoka -7 points 3 years ago

This is what I told most of my friend when they asked me to move to signal. Is is going to be a very shitty company managed by a shitty egocentric person and you are going to regret. But you will make people move and they won't do it again and won't understand the reasons

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grannyweatherwax 17 points 3 years ago

Matrix.

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curioushom 16 points 3 years ago

Matrix (synapse server) probably fits the bill.

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t3chskel 12 points 3 years ago

We use Matrix (Synapse) and it works extremely well. I just wish I could get a STUN/TURN server working...

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ticho 3 points 3 years ago

My family has been using Synapse since before Covid hit, including TURN server (coturn) for audio and video calls. No complaints about the UI so far, except for Element on iPhone reportedly "freezing" for a few moments when sending messages - and that was over a year ago.

What problems do you have getting TURN to work?

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t3chskel 1 point 3 years ago

I tried setting up coturn with docker but I can't remember offhand what I had issues with. I am running a reverse proxy (Traefik) with wildcard certs. I should dig into it again. Do you happen to have any pointers or any good guides I could try following?

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TrinityTek 11 points 3 years ago

Another Nextcloud user here. If you setup a Nextcloud server you will see many benefits, with the Talk app being just one of them. Install OnlyOffice and you can even collaboratively edit documents in the web browser similar to Google Docs or o365. I really can't recommend Nextcloud enough. Anyone who is into self hosting should at least give it a try.

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phrogpilot73 2 points 3 years ago

The only downside to the OnlyOffice document server is that if you can't edit documents through the Nextcloud app (or mobile browser) on your phone with the community edition. However, you can set up your Nextcloud instance in the OnlyOffice documents app on your phone, and edit that way.

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TrinityTek 1 point 3 years ago

That's a great tip! I had no idea that you could do that with the OnlyOffice app now. I tried a few years ago and you could only connect to their hosted services. This is a game changer! I had been doing all my editing on the desktop.

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phrogpilot73 2 points 3 years ago

Yup. In the clouds section of the app, you have options for OnlyOffice cloud, OwnCloud, Nextcloud, kdrive, some crappy well known proprietary ones, and any WebDAV storage. Once I figured that out, I was pretty happy.

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TrinityTek 1 point 3 years ago

Yes! I tried it as soon as I saw your comment. It works great! Back when I last tried it there was only one option to enter the address of one of their hosted servers. This is great news. Thanks for the tip!

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jws_shadotak 1 point 3 years ago

I've tried setting it up three times now but I keep getting permission errors before I can even get into it. Is there a good guide to it somewhere?

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TrinityTek 3 points 3 years ago

Try this tutorial if you are on x86 architecture:

https://www.howtoforge.com/...

Are you comfortable installing Linux and using the terminal?

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jws_shadotak 2 points 3 years ago

Edit: nvm this somehow responded to the wrong post.

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johntash 11 points 3 years ago

If you're already using Nextcloud, it has a chat w/ video chat as well.

Matrix / Synapse / Element.io is also pretty cool. The UX might not be on par with what some family expects though. I don't know if voice/video chat is built-in yet or not, but it was at least an option before.

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coldhotman 5 points 3 years ago

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stefan 2 points 3 years ago

Voice / video requires a separate TURN server, IIRC.

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philpo 11 points 3 years ago

Also a vote for Matrix and Synapse. Works great and you can decide if you federate or not.

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lemmy 8 points 3 years ago

We use Rocketchat and love it. Been thinking about moving to Matrix but, at this point I've got my whole family hooked on Rocket

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buedi 7 points 3 years ago

Since we use Nextcloud, we just use Talk. It works well enough for us, but you should also host a TURN/STUN Server with that.

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Mia 6 points 3 years ago

Mattermost is really nice. They added voice calling as a beta feature a while ago and it works pretty good so far.

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DAC_Protogen 5 points 3 years ago

Nextcloud looks really great and it has a chat / video chat too, I want to give it a spin in the future, as it also allows you to self-host a lot of things that people usually outsource to Microsoft, Google or Apple.

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styx 1 point 3 years ago

The video calls in nextcloud are a bit....hard to make work flawless, lol. You also need some amount of ram and cpu in the server.

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DAC_Protogen 2 points 3 years ago

I think you always need some amount of ram and cpu in a server... ;D Well, it's a shame if those video calls aren't working nicely without some fiddling. I'll still set up a Nextcloud at some point, for all that other stuff like calendar, contacts, office, chat and file sync. Kinda enjoying the benefits of cloud synced data, but without a corporation hosting my information and selling me to the advertisement hyenas.

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styx 0 points 3 years ago

Heh true that. AFAIR Nextcloud Talk Video calls need few additional stuff to be installed for working outside a LAN. You can check some details here: https://nextcloud-talk.readthedocs.io/...

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TrinityTek 2 points 3 years ago

I use Nextcloud Talk video calls outside my local LAN and I didn't do anything special other than install the Talk app.

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hitagi 5 points 3 years ago

I like Matrix (I mostly use it with my sister) though XMPP might be a good option too if it's just for family.

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poVoq 5 points 3 years ago

Don't listen to all the Matrix fanboys here 😅 It's no fun having to manage the massive server application and the mobile apps pretty much suck.

I would go for https://snikket.org/ which is a lightweight all in one solution based on XMPP specifically designed for what you want.

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wounn 4 points 3 years ago

Massive server application? Running on a PI 3? If you don't want to federate with massive servers it's super lightweight!

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ptman 1 point 3 years ago

"for instance Synapse uses 5-10x less RAM than it used to (my personal federated server is only using 145MB of RAM atm! " https://matrix.org/...

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poVoq 1 point 3 years ago

I run synapse myself, so yes I am aware that it got more lightweight. But it very much depends on your usage pattern and XMPP is still easily 10x less resource heavy.

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milouse 4 points 3 years ago

Just for a family and friends I'd go for xmpp. Matrix is still an enormous greavy piece of software, hard to self host if you don't want to pay for a gigantic server just for it. Also the UI is more like gamer/company chat (discord, slack...), what may not be what your family expect, coming from whatsapp, telegram, or plain sms. In the contrary xmpp is very light and nowadays a lot of tutorial exists on how to configure it, even with voice/video. Plus mobile apps like conversation match the habbits of other messengers.

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ptman 6 points 3 years ago

This is outdated info. Matrix doesn't need lots of resources these days. "for instance Synapse uses 5-10x less RAM than it used to (my personal federated server is only using 145MB of RAM atm!" - https://matrix.org/...

Host it for free https://paul.totterman.name/posts/free-clouds/ & https://paul.totterman.name/...

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seang96 2 points 3 years ago

How's bandwidth? I was thinking of possibly hosting one but read its pretty killer there too. I unfortunately only got 20 Mbps upload.

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x3i 3 points 3 years ago

Did you checkout matrix/element?

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Knusbiegel 1 point 3 years ago

DeltaChat works with encrypted e-mails.

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fleg 1 point 3 years ago

Matrix works, but it's way harder and more expensive to selfhost than for example XMPP, which can be hosted even on cheapest VPS or first RPi. I would definitely take the cost and "how hard is it to maintain in the long run" into consideration.

Mattermost also works and is pretty easy to selfhost, but it doesn't have federation.

Another option is always an email with delta.chat - I don't think it offers voice calling, but email is one of the most basic services one can host, and many automated solutions to help with that exist.

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manwichmakesameal 1 point 3 years ago

I'm not sure I understand this. All you have to have for Matrix is a homeserver.yaml file and you can spin up a docker image no problem. Are you saying more expensive resource wise?

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rglullis 1 point 3 years ago

The problem of XMPP is not hosting it, it's the clients. Give me one easy-to-use guide to have

e2ee text messaging
groups
audio/video calling

working equally well on desktop, Android and iOS, and I will gladly drop my matrix server.

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fox 1 point 3 years ago

exactly. in theory XMPP has everything required of a modern chat protocol, in practice however there are a void of clients which support necessary XEPs. there's Conversations on android which is alright and that's about it.

Gajim is a bloatware monster, Dino is alpha-quality, and uhh. I think that's it.

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slipperydippery 0 points 3 years ago

I am also looking for a self hosted communication service for my "family" 😉

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AbidanYre 0 points 3 years ago

SimpleX is nice.

I've been using it with my immediate family since my youngest doesn't have a phone plan.

Wasn't able to get snikket working when I tried.

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SheeEttin -24 points 3 years ago

Why? Existing platforms, especially the plain cell network, are going to be far more compatible and reliable.

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Faceman2K23 34 points 3 years ago

Because this is SelfHosted and hosting services yourself is cool?

Some people have very legitimate reasons to want a secure private communication platform, and others are just enthusiastic nerds who do it for fun.

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tgxn 3 points 3 years ago

For messaging, why not choose a secure messaging app like Signal. I get that it's not self-host, but sometimes self-hosting stuff is harder than using a reputable existing solution, much like email.

Edit: I say this as someone who self-hosts everything, I've tried running my own Matrix server, too.

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SheeEttin 1 point 3 years ago

Sure, but without any requirements it's hard to recommend anything. If you self-host something that's less reliable and has fewer features and can't talk to any other service, you're just handcuffing yourself; your family won't actually want to use it.

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hiajen 5 points 3 years ago

Cellphone network calls / texts aint secure at all. If you want to communicate in a secure way you need to use another seevice/app.

Many stated matriy as selfhostable service and i totally agree. Signal/Threema are also good options If you dont want to selhost.

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scott 1 point 3 years ago

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A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don't control.

Rules:

Detailed Rules Post

Be civil.
No spam.
Posts are to be related to self-hosting.
Don't duplicate the full text of your blog or readme if you're providing a link.
Submission headline should match the article title.
No trolling.
Promotion posts require active participation, with an account that is at least 30 days old. F/LOSS without a paywall has exceptions, with requirements. See the rules link for details. Tags [CBH] or [AIP] are required, see the links in Rule 8 for details.
AI-related discussions and AI-involved promotional posts have additional requirements for tagging, as noted in Rule 7 and the AI & Promotional Post Expanded Rules post, and find example disclosures here.

Resources:

selfh.st Newsletter and index of selfhosted software and apps
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Questions? DM the mods!

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