I would like to add that if you actually have XMR in a wallet that you got from mining, and you never moved those funds before, you CAN confirm that those funds came from mining. In fact, the GUI wallet will show a symbol indicating that it came from mining (what's called a "coinbase" transaction).

However you could just say that you moved the funds from the mining wallet to this other wallet, but then I will ask again: Show me the mining wallet that got those mining transactions.

I think there is one very good usecase for churning though.

And before anything, yes I know that one should not use CEX but in some cases it is just much more convenient. Although I am now starting to use Haveno, I get not everyone is up to it, and CEX is just plain easier.

Imagine the following scenario:

I buy a shitcoin over at a KYC'd CEX.

I send that coin to a centralized swap, or trade it with a compromised person, in exchange of XMR.

Lets say I repeatedly do that procedure with the same person or CEX. Then I end with multiple "small" outputs on my wallet, all from the same entity. Let's say for example 10 outputs of 0.1 XMR, which all have been sent to me by the same entity.

Now I want to buy something that costs 1 XMR. I need to use my 10 existing outputs. I make a transaction that takes 10 inputs and 2 outputs (what I buy + change). The transaction has 10 inputs, and all of those inputs have a ring, where one of the members of each ring is an output controlled by the compromised entity.

The likelihood of someone making a transaction with 10 inputs, where those 10 inputs happen to contain a member in the ring that was sent by that specific exchange and that is linkable to my identity is near zero, unless it is me who is spending those 10 outputs.

Therefore, the person that sent me those 10 outputs can make a very well educated guess that it was me who bought that item for 1 XMR.

This "vulnerability" is actually talked about in the Breaking Monero series, and as far as I know, it will be solved when FCMP++ comes, since we will get rid of rings altogether.

However let's say I do one step of churning with all those outputs without mixing them with eachother. That is, I send to myself 10 transactions of 0.1 XMR, so I just "forward" each output to myself once, without making any transaction that contains two poisoned inputs at the same time.

Then I will still end up with 10 outputs of 0.1 XMR, but all the "poisoned" outputs are present in different and unlinkable transactions, and the negative actor does not know whether they are truly spent or not.

Then I can actually join those 10 outputs into one 1XMR transaction safely, knowing that I am the only person who knows where those 10 outputs come from.

Am I wrong in this thought process?

They add support for USDT I assume, as there is no support yet. Weird wording I agree

Why Ethereum? Isn’t possible to do it on RandomX?

Eh... no? Because the Monero blockchain has no support for custom tokens...?

Also, why limited supply? XMR ≠ BTC.

Because this is not XMR? It is literally just a memecoin.

Why the F will you sell JPEGs with the Monero mascot that I can download off of Google images for free?

Because people are stupid and they like the NFTs. Besides it's not about "having the JPEG", more of "owning it" I would guess.

Is there a guarantee this won’t be a Pump-and-Dump? Also, why is this pinned?

Probably not. Again it's just a memecoin, play the game if you want, or don't. Up to you.

I'm not related to this project but I don't think it is such a bad idea. Just don't play the game if you don't like it. It is not even in the Monero blockchain so what harm can it realistically do to us?

Edit: Formatting

Its not about reversibility.

Let's say you and me trade BTC/XMR.

When we start the trade, both security deposits + the trade amount in XMR get locked.

If I'm offering the BTC, then if I never send the BTC you just never release the coins. In this case you call the arbitrators, you prove you never received the coins, they will unlock the funds and since I am trying to scam you, you will get a refund of your XMR, your security deposit, but also my security deposit, so I lose the deposit.

If you are offering the BTC, let's say you send them to me but I claim I never received them. Then, again you call the arbitrators, you prove that you sent them to me, they will unlock the funds, and you will receive either your security deposit, or that PLUS my security deposit, or maybe even the whole trade amount (which were my coins, but I tried to scam you, so I lose them)

So the security deposits are in place to try to make it unprofitable to scam people in this situations.

Actually, since a bank transfer is reversible, security deposits do not really give safety in this case. We can do a trade normally, I send you 300$ and you send me 2 xmr, and I can contact the bank 2 weeks later saying someone hacked me and get my money back while I still hold the xmr. So this is always a risk. That's why cash is always better, but personally I have used haveno a few times and never got problems.

I would say depending on who is asking you...

If you have there some xmr valued many hundreds of euros, it is pretty unlikely you actually mined it unless you have some very powerful setup.

If I am the government, then I will ask you: Show me this mining setup. Prove to me that you at least owned or had access to this setup.

I think when we talk about plausible deniability it's not in the context or "Where did this money come from", but more along the lines of "I cannot prove it was actually you who bought this item".

Imagine you buy an item that is restricted or sanctioned in your area, plausible deniability makes it so it is very difficult for me to prove in a court it was you who bought it, and very easy for you to evade these accusations.

If someone forces you to open your wallet, you can just have a second hidden wallet where you keep your stash, and then just open another wallet with, let's say, 5 or 10 euros worth or XMR that you can actually mine in a reasonable amount of time with some old machines.

Running your own node is:

1. The thing keeping you safe from chainalytic companies sniffing on your data.
2. Literally the thing that keeps the network running.

Get a 128GB drive, or rent a cheap VPS server and run your own node! Those are cheap as hell nowadays!

For buying you have Haveno. Just try it out

Just watched the 3 available episodes.

Quite impressed with the quality so far, and really excited for you to make more episodes!

This is a very nice continuation to Breaking Monero, nicely updated to the current times.

Hopefully it will not stop without closure like Breaking Monero though, all my luck to you! Keep up the good work :)

That is a very cool mechanism. Thanks for the info!

No, Haveno is completely Non-Kyc.

The only problem with Haveno is that you need to pre-own a small amount of XMR as a safety deposit to avoid scams. So it is not the best if you need to get started from scratch. (You get your deposit back after the trade)

Haveno essentially generates a wallet for you that you use on trades, so when I say "add funds" I mean to that new wallet (which is locally generated and thus non-custodial, keys are always under your control)

Once you add some funds to Haveno, just click any of the offers listed there. You'll probably need to add a payment account to your haveno account but the app will guide you through all the steps. There are some tutorials floating around there.

Sounds daunting but it really is super super easy

You cannot set an offer without a security deposit. Minimum is 15% of the trade amount. You can specify an even larger percentage when creating the offer.

When taking the offer you must agree to whatever security deposit percentage the creator of the offer has set.

But the idea is that scamming in Haveno is unprofitable (or risky I guess) because you risk losing your security deposit, yes

This sounds interesting. I'm up for the free tokens, and might grab some extra ones later for the meemz :)

0xA4E16089D807F2B52353E193D637EB1FAA6DD6bA

Yes you are right, it was too early in the morning for me to process properly...

Statistically you should see each output used an average of 16 times, that makes sense.

Cheers!

I didn't know the protocol tried to use every output in around 16 transactions. I know about the 16 ring size, but I didn't know it also tried to use each output 16 times. If so, that is very smart and interesting. You learn something new every day!

The idea of sweeping them and then churning the merged output is also smart.

Oh well I guess we just have to wait for FCMP++ where theoretically all this will be no longer relevant :)

I remember watching the breaking monero series, when it was mentioned that (paraphrasing) "Rings are what give security to Monero but I really hope we get rid of them"... That time is finally getting closer :)

Am I understanding this correctly?

https://moneromarket.io/...

86KwquavD1THnRG5iuBDyJ5fEbJECY8Cmjfp68Kpx3TM4HXXpuMy3RvBbwM7DWnBXETSg3iSuTK2PTuxh3mXacFd1Zqt6GD

Transactions may become less private. This could deter users who value the anonymity offered by cryptocurrencies like Monero.

Ah yes I'm sure that the USA's new definition of "Money" will make the Monero chain less secure and private.

Maybe Monero-Chan will feel threatened and start leaking our transactions to the FBI or something.

No but for real, this cannot "deter users who value the anonymity of Monero". No, it should do literally the opposite. If crypto becomes less private, it should make users more prone to XMR because it spits on the face of all these regulators

Yes that is exactly it.

That is why you should always make sure to lose all your XMR on a boating accident right after acquiring them 😉

Yes you can just say that.

1. If someone knows for a fact that you have Monero and they know the exact amount, and want to know where it came from:

   • Move them to a new wallet
   • I mined these coins a very long time ago, I do not have the mining equipment anymore
   • Also the wallet I used to mine them was on an old computer that got infected so I moved all to this new wallet

2. If someone suspects that you have Monero but does NOT know how much:

   • Imagine you own $10k in Monero
   • Move a small amount to a wallet ($200??)
   • If authorities ask you how much you have, show them the wallet with $200.
   • Go back to scenario 1 (I got those 200 from mining a long time ago etc etc)

3. If no one suspects that you have Monero, and for now you are "in the clear":

   • Follow good opsec
   • Do not tell anyone that you have Monero
   • Do not exchange that Monero for fiat using KYC services. Always use something like Haveno, or use the Monero to buy prepaid cards anonymously to use in shops
   • If someone starts suspecting that you might be using Monero but does not know how much, revert to scenario 2

Of course it is better if you avoid anyone knowing you have Monero altogether.

Remember that you always have the option of moving them to a new wallet, say you got hacked and have no access to it.

Of course all this depends on your country and how authorities are there. If you live in a very authoritarian area where authorities do not care about evidence and they only care that "you look guilty", nothing will save you. If you live in a country where you must go to court and be proven guilty, I think with Monero its pretty easy to do any of those steps and cover your ass.

But as always, try to not be discovered using Monero in the first place

Literally just make a new wallet, as everyone else in this thread (including me) did. Of course no one is going to post here their regular use wallet (if they even had one to begin with)

Am I understanding this correctly?

https://moneromarket.io/...

86KwquavD1THnRG5iuBDyJ5fEbJECY8Cmjfp68Kpx3TM4HXXpuMy3RvBbwM7DWnBXETSg3iSuTK2PTuxh3mXacFd1Zqt6GD