It’s more like an echo chamber with at least partly questionable scientific accuracy.

Oh, you have already read these books? Or are you making assumptions?

but you may have a look at this one instead to get a first impression on the scientific backing

As you said, these reviewers are not medical experts, so listening to them would be stupid by your own logic.

And come on “Why vegans have smaller brains?” - that’s the evidence for your nutritional knowledge?

Read the book

No vegan propaganda, but surprise, surpise… “diet that is low in animal fats, red meat, and refined carbohydrate, and enriched in plant fats, whole grains, vegetables and fruit, poultry, fish, and eggs”

That literally is vegan propaganda.

Anyway - You had your say, on this article about the role of being inquisitive in science you have what-about-ismed us to many different topics. I don't think your a good fit for this community

random stranger who did their own research

Meat can be part of a healthy diet. Meat is not a prerequisite for a healthy diet.

I actually agree on both points. I've waxed poetic on this before - https://discuss.online/post/25952420 . There are many ways to be healthy.

here is strong evidence that certain forms of meat are unhealthy. Especially for large quantities of red meat and processed meat due to nitrosamines.

That evidence doesn't stand up to scrutiny, per the meat in a healthy diet expert opinion I supplied earlier.

I’d rather stick to what’s consensus.

By all means, if your perfectly healthy, keep doing what your doing!

And that means limiting your meat intake, especially in the two areas mentioned.

This advice is not supported by strong evidence (non-observational) and doesn't represent consensus. It's fine for you to run your life, but your opinion isn't sufficient to compel others - As you said you don't mind us here eating meat, so we should be bygones. As you indicated in your first message it would be stupid for people to extrapolate health advice on their own, and doubly stupid to take advice from other lay people. So your proffered opinion by your own words.......

So even it carnivore diets were super healthy (which they aren’t!) they are still a bad idea.

You don't have data to support your position, and even expert opinion you can provide will not be informed on a zero-carb population it will be people extrapolating from FFQs on a high carb population.

Where do the linked articles promote a carnivore diet?

The article this post is about is about how science isn't settled. Each post has a different topic and theme.

One questions high-carb and purely plant based diets (mainly for specific, rather poor regions of the world where people face malnutrition) and the other is about the role of meat in a healthy diet, not about a diet that’s only meat.

You were saying meat isn't health earlier.

Wikipedia summarizes it quite nicely:

The carnivore diet is associated with pseudoscientific health claims. The diet lacks dietary fiber, can lead to deficiencies of vitamins, and can increase the risk of chronic diseases.

Wikipedia are not medical experts, by your own argument in the first message, it would be stupid to take their advice.

My main concern is about the impact of the animal industry on climate.

Ruminants have existed since before farming - they are part of the natural biocycle.

The industrial agricultural model is not sustainable both for mono-cropping and animals. We need to move to sustainable agriculture, with no fossil fuel inputs. Ruminants are necessary part of sustainable soil redevelopment.

How about this one?

This article doesn't have a author, and feels LLM generated. So by your earlier criteria it would be ........... etc etc

Why are you trying to convince me? I'm not trying to convince you. I thought you agreed meat was healthy and we could let each other be bygones.

It clearly mentions that there is just one (!) single study on the carnivorous diet which has an extreme bias as it only interviewed people (observational!) who sticked to the diet and ignored all the quitters.

The LLM article isn't up to date, there are far more than one.

But to repeat myself: your body is yours, you can do to it whatever you want. It’s the planet I care about. The planet is ours and therefore I really hope that this diet just disappears again into nowhere.

Cool! Thanks for sharing that, i hope the same for your diet and philosophy.

From an outsider perspective your community is promoting a unsustainable habit.

Health is a requirement for people, giving people tools to be healthy should never be considered unsustainable.

What are you trying to achieve here? I gather your a philosophical non-meat eater, how can we reconcile a philosophical position with papers? I'm simply not going to accept the position that ruminants are not part of the natural biocycle.

Update - Clearly you have a conclusion in mind, and you are trying to find support for your conclusion, that is why you ended up citing a LLM "article" that reinforced your biases. That isn't how science works, that isn't how constructive conversations work, and it really isn't participating in good faith. I just am illustrating that you are driven by a philosophical end point and your trying to back track, which makes this discussion irreconcilable.

It’s not healthy for the individual

Great, you have scientific backing for this position? I can provide a few counter examples from pre-westernized populations.

desaster for the health of our planet.

Wait.... this is EXACTLY what the article was talking about...

My comment is not about the author of the article,

So yes, you are talking about the article - I suggest you read it.

Update - honoring your opinion it's stupid for people to read the literature and thus you can't provide any scientific backing for your position (as that would be stupid by your own words), allow me to give you a authority who summarizes the literature - https://doi.org/10.1093/af/vfy009

I hope the author of the article passes your standards: https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=sZnJQoQAAAAJ

758 peer reviewed papers, 70,562 academic citations.

Unqualified people questioning science is stupid.

If you wont let him ask questions..... I question the directionality of your thinking.

We aren’t though. Protien is required but it takes a lot of energy to break it down and use it, thus why carbs and fats are also important. Look up Rabbit Starvation diet.

100% agreed, I should have been more clear. fatty red meat is optimal. we are lipovores and work best eating mostly fat.

We also have a VERY long digestive tract compared to actual carnivores, because we evolved to digest grains and fiberous materials.

We have discussed the digestive tract issues before: https://discuss.online/post/40918220

metabolicmind.org/resources/topics/keto-for-depression/

That’s probably our biggest difference since I enjoy the whole cooking process. Tweaking seasonings as the process continues to make something complex and delicious.

You can be as creative as you like on zero carb, nothing is stopping you. I'm just on the lazy side of the spectrum.

I think speculative and preliminary is accurate. It’s certainly something people could try.

Yup! Early days in metabolic psychiatry. But since keto is free (you got to eat anyway), doesn't require a doctor's visit, and is tolerated very well by people - why not try it first?

tremendously! It's delicious.

Humans are optimized to survive on meat, its satisfying, and never gets boring.

It just so happens it's also the easiest way to cook and eat due to its very simple nature. I should note that while the food is satisfying my day isn't centered around food, I'm not living to eat.

The website you linked has a research database

.... does that not count as citations?

How about - https://doi.org/10.1038/s41398-025-03544-8 - A pilot study examining a ketogenic diet as an adjunct therapy in college students with major depressive disorder

Which i've posted before https://discuss.online/post/27361403

That will ruin it's value!

don't forget to untap at the start of your next turn!

I think the netrunner is a better card, you should turn in the mtg card instead.

21:50 - We think of it as a weight loss diet, but really it's a brain stabilization diet.

35:26 - Need to restrict protein to keep ketones high when starting a ketogenic diet for a mental issue.

41:30 If you haven't been in consistent therapeutic range ketosis for 6 weeks, a good 6 weeks, you have not actually tried it, and you cant say it doesn't work

1:10:00 fish don't drop ketones as much as red meat.

1:15:00 cheese inducing constipation may be involved in reducing psychiatric benefits. they speculate something with the gut brain connection (gut not microbiome)

Get some low salt salt. They are in most grocery stores they are potassium and sodium combined.

Put this in water, stir, drink.

It's great electrolytes, cheap, sugar free.

Meat Carnivore used the 10 minute shaking method! My arms are tired just watching his video, but it does sound very simple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ04eZvtslQ

There were a couple years where I lived on soylent, and carnivore is even easier then that. Only one meal a day, I can skip a meal no problem, no food noise - I'm not jonesing or looking for food multiple times per day... it's just less work, tremendously

1. put cast iron skillet on stove, turn on heat
2. Ghee on pan - with spoon
3. grab ground beef, put in pan
4. use spoon to move the beef around
5. Optional - Add eggs
6. Remove from heat, put skillet on table
7. eat (use same spoon)
8. clean skillet and spoon

Total items to clean : 1 cast iron skillet, 1 spoon... and you are done for the day

I think lots of people might call this 'boy dinner', but most carnivores are women (as far as I can tell).

world wide average is 2.2 ounces of animal protein PER DAY PER PERSON

That is why there is a global protein insufficiency crisis. 2.2oz is 62g which is enough protein for a 38-56kg (83lbs-123lbs) person depending on which guideline you use.