Counter point = some folks bought Tesla (the normal ones not the weird “truck” things) because they wanted a more environmentally friendly option for a car. Back before awareness that Musk is an asshole was common.

Like some of the owners might be regretful but not in a position to sell at a huge loss and buy a different EV.

Looking for an answer to this as well. I’m non violent 100% - but open to civil disobedience. If bad people are putting good people in jail I’m ok going to jail. Not to be a martyr, but if it has a chance of making a difference. Just not sure what to do.

Sure - but not at the 50501 events. Those are peaceful “big tent” events. Kids and elderly friendly.

Unless you want to ensure that most Americans won’t show up - which will not help us reach your goals - then please disrupt in any time/place/way EXCEPT for these planned “Big Tent” peaceful protests.

Not everyone is online as much as we are. Lots of people are utterly unaware that ever happened.

So many democrats don’t understand how someone could possibly be stupid/blind enough to vote for Trump.

If those same people were switched at birth with the Republicans they look down on them they would probably be voting Republican.

It is always worth trying to understand where other people are coming from. If you didn’t have the education that you got, if you were raised in the environment they were raised in and heard the messages they heard and suffered through whatever types of challenges they suffered (instead of the ones you did) then you would have a different world view. You would. That is a fact.

I am surrounded by democrats and they all think republican voters are low class idiots. If I were a republican then why would I want to vote for a party of people who obviously think I’m a low class idiot?

Agree. Plus they are utterly ridiculous.

This is SUPER helpful and thoughtful and I thank you.

Like when we start doing research in a nuanced and scientific way then the folks who aren’t part of the scientific community can very easily “wildly gesture” racism and say “it’s science”.

So it is not that there aren’t differences, it’s that if we aren’t very careful then valid research can get inaccurately used to support racism/sexism.

I don’t remember the details but I feel like way back the president of Harvard said something about sex differences and got fired and what he said didn’t seem incorrect to me. It really bothered me. But maybe it was more “in a leadership position you need to be aware of how people will twist your words” than “what you said was true but we want to pretend it’s not”.

Finite resources. When millions of people suffer and die for lack of resources while one parson controls enough resources to support all of them = it’s just not fair. No one person is worth more than hundreds of thousands of people.

For someone lucky and successful and hardworking to be better off than others = totally cool. You can do that no problem with 100 mil.

But when you have 1000x1000 more than you will ever need and other people die for want? Not cool.

I went to the one in Portland. It was such good energy- it invigorates everyone present. It gives us energy to do other things as well.

The fact that Trump doesn’t care about Oregon doesn’t mean that “doing nothing” is a better option. Don’t discourage people from taking action. If we are gathering and talking to each other we’re more likely to find and join in other efforts.

Speaking of which - what is it that you would suggest the good people of Oregon be doing to make a difference?

Sincere question- I am a girl. I program/work in tech.
I can say that on average women are shorter than me and nobody has issues. But if I say that on average women aren’t as good at spacial relations then somehow I’m sexist.

The fact that on average women are shorter does NOT mean anything about a particular woman. The woman in front of you may tower over most men. She may be one of the tallest people ever. But men have more testosterone in their system and it makes them physically develop differently and ON AVERAGE they are taller.

So testosterone doesn’t only affect height, it affects brains as well. Same with estrogen. Ask anyone who takes those drugs for medical reasons or because they are transitioning. I’m a woman who is way better at spacial relations thinking than most women. Other than that I’m petite, soft spoken and love babies. Not masculine at all. Not on drugs. But - kind of like a very tall woman - I’m a bit of an outlier in how my brain works compared to other women.

I get it that some folks have used science to do “superior race” “superior sex” oppression and that is horrifying. The current administration in the US = facist nightmare 100%, and incompetent to boot.

But it still is objectively true that there are generalizations / averages that can be made based on race and sex. Why is someone sexist for saying things that are objectively true?

Depends on the bus / area.

There is real time bus tracking now in most places so you can see when things will arrive = WAY better for dealing with traffic (note traffic is a thing for cars as well)

I’m in Portland OR and of course a bus going through a bad area is more likely to have people who are “not ok” (addicts) but the vast majority of our busses are clean and climate controlled and filled with perfectly lovely friendly people.

And risk assessment is based on what is likely. My aunt smoked her whole life and never got lung cancer so my “personal experience” is that smoking doesn’t cause cancer. You see what I’m saying?

Cars are more dangerous than busses. Period. You might not like them for any number of perfectly valid reasons, and a specific bus in a specific area might be more dangerous - but the point of the post is that personal preference and accurate risk assessment are not the same thing.

53 checking in 🙂

Do you feel like calling a whole group “these people” is a helpful approach?

Agree. Being a billionaire is inherently immoral.

However if all billionaires supported the politicians and policies that the Gates support we would not be in this situation. Like they actually do understand the value of a strong/healthy middle class.

Note that Bill Gates plans to give away more than 99% of his wealth. It’s hard to call him unethical for keeping his money with a straight face when he’s giving away 99% of it. And working hard to do that in ways that will matter to fellow humans who are truly suffering. Like he’s not building libraries to put his name on, he’s giving away vaccines and mosquito nets.

So I’m thinking he actually isn’t keeping his excessive wealth. Like he is actually giving it away - so yeah, I don’t lump him with the others at all.

It is the weak who are cruel, gentleness can be expected only from the strong. -Leo Rosen

Also “Hurt people hurt people.”

Note I am not in any way meaning to imply that one should accept or excuse cruel behavior.

But I do not want to respond to hateful people by being hateful myself. Responding from strength means taking action and responding clearly and forcefully. It is really hard to see fellow humans be so blind and so cruel and cause such unimaginable harm. Agree - they need to be stopped. I don’t know how to help this stop.

But they are still fellow humans - with their own stories and struggles. The response to someone dehumanizing others isn’t to dehumanize them back.

So the question is what actions can we take? I am not a target (born in the US, white) outside of my political beliefs - so how can I take a stand in a way that might help / have an effect?

I don’t know. I share your despair at seeing what is happening - and I encourage you to keep hold of your compassion and strength and act from there. Act boldly, forcefully, and with love.

So you are all in with “us vs them” politics.

Yay my team and fuck the other guys they suck.

Lots of people aren’t online as much as you and I are. They might have bought an EV for environmental reasons 10 years ago without even noticing who owned the company.

So why are they idiots do you think? Like are you just naturally and inherently superior to all of them?

Or maybe they were raised differently than you were and taught different things than you were. Exposed to different ideas. Maybe they lack knowledge because they went to a shitty school rather than because they are inferior.

Or that is just an excuse because I don’t want to admit that they are idiots. Idiots who strangely enough don’t want to vote for people who are convinced they are idiots.

So why would someone lack empathy?

Like if there is a 4 year old whose parents hit them - then they go to school and hit other kids. Is the 4 year old evil? Or were they taught that behavior?

I’m not saying that adults are 4 years old and aren’t responsible for their actions, I’m just saying that some people have VERY different opportunities than you and I have had.

People are complicated, but my (liberal) values are exactly what one would expect me to have if you look at my upbringing and education. If I had a different education and upbringing I almost certainly would have different values.

Not fun to admit, but true.

I prefer to call actions bad rather than people. People are pretty complicated, and it’s not a level playing field.

I’m sorry. I also feel anger and fear. I am desperately looking for ways to take action that are at least potentially effective, even if there is risk and personal cost to myself. I do not feel like a “moderate”.

I also do not want to lose sight of my own value system. Trump is full of vengeful hate. I would rather be a good person who got killed trying to make things better than be still alive but consumed with vengeful hate / hurting other people.

I am not religious - but I am a pacifist at heart. The people I admire most are folks who brought about massive change through non violent means - not people who won wars.

And honestly even if the political stuff all suddenly became ok (it won’t) the billions of people who will die from climate change is inevitable- so that gives me some perspective. Like we are ALL going to die. What is the best I can do with the time I have?

I do not have answers. Maybe - as you suggest - everything I do will be ineffective. I share your fear and dread, but if I can’t continue to value love over hate then I have already lost.