What exactly should we have done then? I only claim to speak for myself; in an ideal world I would love to work with feminists, but we're having conversations here that are not permitted in feminist spaces, so we need our own space for that. I hope you'll be open minded and do a little reading here to see what we're about.

If you had seen the (now private) LWMA subreddit, you would see that we are left-wing. That is the reason why I do not go to r/MensRights or other red pill communities. I disagree with them and disagree with right-wing views. We needed to archive the posts so they would not be lost, and this is the only way it would have happened.

Edit: And frankly, I kind of agree with a previous comment of yours that the discussions here so far have not been productive. The discussions from the LWMA subreddit were far more productive and interesting. I feel like everything that has been here so far is kind of vapid rehashing of stuff we all already believe. I myself don't feel like I have too much to contribute. I think both LWMA and the Kbin are completely dead, unfortunately.

Things like universal healthcare and social safety nets have made people's lives better in other countries, and would make people's lives better here. Having accessible mental health care would directly help men.

Universal healthcare and social safety nets are not (necessarily) socialism. All universal healthcare means is that everyone has a right to healthcare. Doesn't say how. The state could own the healthcare apparatus like the NHS, or it could be simply a private insurance mandate supplemented by plans for low-income individuals. Socialism just means that workers own the means of production. I personally agree that universal healthcare and a reasonable social safety net are both necessary.

Nobody on the left things that individual men have never been the victims of society - e.g. toxic masculinity.

I'm just curious, do you think toxic feminity is also a thing? Or just toxic masculinity? If both then I guess you're consistent, but I personally object to either label. I prefer the term "toxic gender expectations", especially because either gender can impose toxic expectations on the other or their own.

Also, most feminists do believe that even if men have ever been victims of injustice, men have never suffered because of their gender Something I think is a complete lie. The draft is a perfect example.

Just curious, is it possible to see Kbin comments/posts that were deleted by a user or moderator like Removeddit for Reddit (supposing they haven't been archived to the wayback machine)?

Maybe Kbin should add rewards like Reddit had /s. We could give our fellow visitor a Constructive Comment Award.

I also think it's relevant to this discussion that the right to vote of men in the past was predicated on mandatory military service. Women have never had to do this.

If I had a choice between giving uo my right to vote and being forced to go die in a trench in WWI, I would seriously consider giving up my vote. I am grateful to be alive today instead of 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago when the US last drafted men against their will.

But even today, people still by and large believe that it is men's natural duty to be sent to war, while women are seen as having no responsibilities.

I don't think we should disenfranchise anyone, but recognise that forced conscription is just as great an injustice to men as disenfranchisement was to women (and black or non-landowning men), if not greater.

Forcing innocent men into harm's way should be confined to the past and recognised for the barbaric practice that it is. Sadly that will not happen anytime soon, seeing how most people don't even see it as injustice.

This is something feminists usually respond to with "but men start all the wars; therefore women shouldn't have to fight them," without realising it caring that only a tiny group of men make these choices; the millions of [usually working class] men who died never got a say in any of it. Feminism is not fighting to end conscription because it doesn't affect women.

Until just now I read your name as RandoCanadian :laughing-emoji:

Exactly. Of course men in their 50s-70s will outearn women because that's how things were in the past. The future is clearly shown by how much money 20 year olds are making. The only reason young women are making less is because they choose to stop working and have a kid (And yes, men are pressured to have kids too).

That I think takes the cake for the most hilariously bad pickup line I've ever heard 🤣. I guarantee that would make a girl uncomfortable.

I agree with your comments u/Mshuser, it seems like your interlocutor can't understand that society's expectations are the problem, not men's sense of self worth. Again, unsurprisingly, they conclude that men are uniquely the problem and that this is an individual problem they must solve themselves with no help from anyone else.

In regard to the issue of women not making the first move, most men know that they will likely remain alone if they don't initiate. Women by and large don't initiate (there are exceptions, but that's the rule), which I get. It's nerve-wracking like you said and extremely uncomfortable sticking yourself out there just to more than likely be rejected. But then again, women are far more likely to get a yes than men are.

Ultimately, only women have the power to change this societal expectation. If you see someone you're interested in, strike up a conversation with him or ask him out, depending on the situation, instead of hoping that he'll telepathically know you're into him.

Yeah I was a lurker on the subreddit for a long time but never felt i had anything worth saying. Switched over here once i found out i couldn't use Boost for Reddit anymore. I hope the community grows here

This place on Kbin already seems to have more activity than the old r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates did. That place is basically dead now. It's a shame it fractured the community, but at least this place won't be upended in the future by a greedy and clueless corporation.

The government of Russia ≠ the people of Russia. Men are just a gender. There is no government of men. When you say "men are the problem", you are talking about individual men and men as a whole.

Society also expects men to earn more and ties their value to how much wealth they have. Women play a part in this too just as men do. It also expects men to take on more responsibilities outside of the house.

There are as many injustices against men as there are against women. What happened with Roe v. Wade being overturned is terrible, but when it happened people actually cared for women's wellbeing. Including myself.

Where is the outrage over any of the injustices that men face (the draft, male genital mutilation, exclusion from homeless/DV shelters, family court, etc.)? There is none, because when women are victims of injustice people care; conversely when men are victims no one cares.

At worst, feminist literature will try to ignore male victims to make DV seem like a gendered crime, taking away services from men, and make out so-called male victims as abusers in disguise (like the book "Why Does He Do That?").

"and that's entirely because it's traditionally a "women's job"

citation?

Yeah at some point I just have to laugh about it or I'd lose my mind. So seeing the destruction of Reddit is immensely gratifying. I hope all social media users migrate to the Fediverse eventually, and I also hope that more people will just publish content on their personal websites/blogs instead of posting exclusively on social media.

Yeah, I don't think this is /u/a-man-from-earth's fault. He never shut down the sub afaik; he just resigned and left it to someone else. Even after the Kbin community was started, LWMA was still up for several days after July 1st, long after he resigned as a mod.

I frankly am as curious as /u/thetinman as to who was the mod that shut the community down, because I hoped it would stay open in addition to the Kbin. I could be wrong ofc, since the sub is private there is no way for me to know who it is.

Which view was that? Not doubting, just curious. If we had user overlap with r/MensRights then it's possible some right-wingers made right-wing comments in LWMA.

Agreed. Worst case scenario if we were kicked off of here (which I don't think will happen. we're not a hate sub), we could migrate to a dedicated instance hosted by one of our own members. But I don't think that will ever be necessary.

I was curious about what the statistics are for the alimony arrangements that currently exist. As the article says, any "non-modifiable agreement[s]" will continue to be so. I don't really know how common that is or what that entails. But on the surface, this seems good. I, being a Floridian, am very happy that we are taking another step toward making our state slightly less shitty.

Usually i get all the jokes but not being a rust dev a lot of this went over my head lmao

Boost for Reddit still works for me somehow