(Title shamelessly stolen from this comment in the crossposted !micromobility@lemmy.world thread.)
Someone gets killed by a car, so they restrict e-bikes.
2 years ago by grue to c/mildlyinfuriating
Patches 4 points 2 years ago
If only.
Maybe we could get signage that clearly displays a bike's information such that a hit & run wouldn't be impossibly easy. Maybe we could make it made of Metal so it's durable. Call it a License Plate.
Kinglink 4 points 2 years ago
As far as I read/understand, nope. But if it does limit the assistance to 28 miles an hour, that might be required if the bike goes above that speed. (Note: that's only the point where the power would stop assisting, not the fastest speed the bike can do.)
QuaternionsRock 10 points 2 years ago
I have a Class 3 (28mph), it’s actually not too bad. That assumes the brakes are well-maintained, though, and as we know there are no inspections for e-bikes. I’ve seen some terrifyingly bad brakes on normal bicycles, so I can’t imagine what some people’s e-bikes look like.
It should be mandatory for Class 2 and Class 3 e-bikes to have hydraulic disc brakes imo. I have mechanical disc brakes, and I have to tighten them at least once a month. It seems unwise to trust that the average person would also do that. Rim brakes are right out; they have nowhere near enough braking power for the speed and weight of most e-bikes.
QueriesQueried 3 points 2 years ago
Most people that do longer rides would be fine with that. On downhill sections you can hit that easily enough, and there's wind too. It's definitely fast, but it's fine enough. It doesn't matter what you're driving or riding, you always drive to the conditions anyways.
njordomir 1 point 2 years ago
I ride a class 3 and 30mph is not that bad. I regularly hit that coming down hills, even on a non-ebike. It does require your attention to be on the road and it would hurt if you wiped out. My fastest ever was 44mph
atrielienz 1 point 2 years ago
Some states don't even require insurance for motorcycles. So there's that.
MrSpArkle 2 points 2 years ago
This doesn't seem so bad. I live in the PNW and have seen people absolutely hauling ass on home-made e-bikes and scooters, easily 40mph and passing traffic in the bike lane.
I'm not against people building their own e-bikes, but at some point it's not an e-bike, it's a motorcycle, and they need to be in traffic and ideally have the brakes to match.
abbadon420 25 points 2 years ago
As a european, I don't feel like I'm missing out. If a site has too many ads or popups, I'm inclined to click it away anyways.
LordOfLocksley 21 points 2 years ago
No, it's sites gatekeeping their dodgy tracking cookie policies.
US companies don't want to comply with data protection rules of other territories, so they block our access, just so they can continue their exploitative tracking
towerful 1 point 2 years ago
Eh, often updated privacy laws (a good thing) can lead to an aweful lot of work (and confusion) for developers.
A local news company probably doesnt want to deal with privacy laws that do not effect their target audience (despite those privacy laws being a good thing).
The other option is to be a part of a global news conglomerate that ensures everything is in compliance, but that often leads to some sort of adjenda of what can & cant be published.
Or you pay a platform to host your articles. Which is awesome for anyone that doesnt have devs on staff (or retainer). But you are beholden to that platforms desires
PM_Your_Nudes_Please 7 points 2 years ago
It’s because the EU actually governs the storage and use/sale of personal data. This is the mark of a sketchy company that doesn’t want to comply with basic privacy requirements.
If you’re in the EU and you see this, it’s probably a good thing, and it means even the US viewers shouldn’t be visiting the site. Because the EU laws aren’t even that restrictive or difficult to comply with.
centof 2 points 2 years ago
AKA Geotargeting
Showroom7561 26 points 2 years ago
This honestly makes me furious:
A 15-year-old boy... e-bike
the teen was riding with a passenger on the back.
They were riding ... on the sidewalk
The teen who died was not wearing a helmet, police said.
scrubbles 24 points 2 years ago
They were riding it on a sidewalk, through a crosswalk and someone turned into them. Of course.
One caveat I'll say is that depending on how fast they were going the laws should be that they should be with traffic, because if I'm driving and I look right I may not notice someone going 40+ mph on a sidewalk. But even then the law should be "Where do ebikes belong" officially
dual_sport_dork 35 points 2 years ago
Someone going 40+ MPH is doing what amounts to riding a small motorcycle down a sidewalk. That's no longer a "bicycle" thing. Imagine the howling and pearl-clutching we would be reading if someone were caught blasting, say, a Honda Grom down a sidewalk like that. Which is already illegal, for obvious reasons.
scarabic 8 points 2 years ago
I own an ebike and I use it on the mixed use trails in my city. Mostly I have it because I often pull my kids on a trailer bike and we have hills in town.
I fear that my riding on these trails will soon be banned because people are out there driving stupidly fast on big knobby-tired motorcycles masquerading as “e-bikes.”
There are tons of Karens pushing strollers on these trails and any election now they’re going to ban my bike.
scarabic 3 points 2 years ago
There are lot of such toys on the market. They are electric. But they don’t resemble bikes in any way. I get the idea that they are mistaken for e-bikes when people ride them on our mixed use trails which are clearly marked for pedestrians and bikes only, not motor vehicles. People think anything electric is allowed. They are driving shit the same weight as a 125cc motorcycle in between pedestrians. And guess what? These vehicles go really fast so they are more dangerous than anything else on the trail, and they don’t mix into traffic well. The fools riding them are constantly weaving through passing everyone so they can GO FAST! WANNA GO FAST!
grue 1 point 2 years ago
Just to be clear, "40+ MPH" is wildly inaccurate to the point of being a strawman argument. If the e-bike the kid was on was any sort of normal -- and there's nothing in either the article about the law or the article about the collision linked from it to indicate otherwise -- then it was going no more than 20 MPH, tops.
Fondots 5 points 2 years ago
40mph is probably a bit extreme, but "20mph, tops" is also pretty low
E bike laws, terminology, and manufacturers can be kind of a wild patchwork of nonsensical bullshit but a lot of states recognize, with some degree of regulation or restrictions, what have commonly come to be called class 3 e bikes, that can go up to 28mph, and in my shopping around I've seen plenty that advertise that speed or even higher.
There's a lot of imported e bikes that play fast and loose with the regulations and their quality control, and I'm sure there's a dedicated bunch of people tinkering with their bikes to make them go faster and remove built-in restrictions, so there's probably a lot of people zooming around at 30+MPH
EatATaco 1 point 2 years ago
Let's not downplay how fast 20mph is on the sidewalk. When you're expecting people to be moving at 4mph, 5 times that is ridiculously fast.
Additionally, according to your article, they are capped at 28mph. Which is stupid fast on a sidewalk.
themeatbridge 21 points 2 years ago
One of the many reasons you don't ride anything on the sidewalk is that you cross driveways and crosswalks too quickly to be seen by drivers. Even a standard bike should be ridden in the road, because 15 mph is fast enough to "come out of nowhere" and be hit by a car. All bikes are road vehicles.
Gigan 0 points 2 years ago
I always ride on the side walk if there is one. I'd rather get hit by someone backing up at 5mph than someone going down the road at 50mph. And I'm always watching driveways for cars backing up.
grue 13 points 2 years ago
I’d rather get hit by someone backing up at 5mph than someone going down the road at 50mph.
It's not about cars backing out of residential driveways; it's about cars turning onto side streets and it happens at a lot more than 5 MPH.
Cyclists being rear-ended (at 50 MPH or otherwise) while riding in the street is much less likely to happen than them being t-boned while riding on the sidewalk. You have to factor the probability into the risk, not just the severity.
Gigan 0 points 2 years ago
it’s about cars turning onto side streets and it happens at a lot more than 5 MPH.
I have mirrors, so I check behind me for cars turning right and I can see oncoming traffic for cars turning left.
You have to factor the probability into the risk, not just the severity
My primary concern is the severity. I feel way less safe riding in the street. All it takes is a semi-truck swerving a few feet, a drunk driver not paying attention, or someone looking at their phone at the wrong moment and it's game over for me. The stretch of my commute that I have to share the road with cars is the worst part and if I had to do that the whole way I simply wouldn't cycle anymore.
The real problem is a lack of bike infrastructure, but until that is resolved I'm going to ride where I feel safe and that is as far away from cars as possible. And I'm not on an ebike, just a regular one. I only go 10-15 mph.
taiyang 4 points 2 years ago
Seconded, but not on an ebike. And still use an abundance of caution when crossing the street (I'll even dismount and walk if I think visibility is low). I try to minimize that by finding a bike path, but you can't always live next to a bike path.
Witchfire 13 points 2 years ago
In NYC, maniacs ride ebikes and mopeds on both the sidewalk and the street as it benefits them. Every time I walk my dog I have to dodge the fuckers going full speed down the sidewalk. And they always glare at the pedestrians like you're the problem.
grue -1 points 2 years ago
In other words, cyclists denied appropriate infrastructure are forced to use infrastructure for other transportation modes inappropriately.
But sure, blame the "maniacs" for having no other choice.
AA5B 6 points 2 years ago
They also have a choice to follow the rules of the sidewalk they’re hopping on. Y’all are having this cars vs bikes thing and I’m happy for you but now you’re endangering pedestrians by getting onto pedestrian infrastructure without following pedestrian rules.
Saik0Shinigami 3 points 2 years ago
cyclists denied appropriate infrastructure
Clearly you've never been to NYC... There's bike lanes everywhere.
grue 7 points 2 years ago
One caveat I’ll say is that depending on how fast they were going the laws should be that they should be with traffic, because if I’m driving and I look right I may not notice someone going 40+ mph on a sidewalk. But even then the law should be “Where do ebikes belong” officially
40mph is twice as fast as the max (motor assist) speed of a normal class 2 e-bike, but yeah, the real problem here is lack of proper bike infrastructure.
dual_sport_dork 8 points 2 years ago
It is trivial to kit-build an e-bike that will do this. Hell, I have one myself, constructed out of a Warp DS2 frame.
But the difference is, I also have an M endorsement and I treat my monster bicycle as a motorcycle. The law doesn't -- that's actually impossible in my state, so my bike falls in between a registrable motor vehicle and a bicycle. It also has turn signals, a car horn, a headlight, and working brake lights. But I also don't ride it like a dickhead, and that includes paths set aside for non-fire-breathing bicycles, sidewalks, etc.
scarabic 5 points 2 years ago
My city has amazing bike infrastructure: mixed use trails with no cars, bike lanes on all streets, tunnels and bridges over major thoroughfares (really it’s pretty insanely good and yes it’s in the US of fucking A).
People still ride on the sidewalks like morons. They ride the wrong direction in the bike lanes.
Bike infrastructure is essential but also not totally sufficient. You need a significant enough number of people using them that there is a culture for it and tribal sharing of knowledge around it.
scarabic 6 points 2 years ago
I hate cyclists that masquerade as pedestrians. It’s less safe for them and it’s less safe for everyone. Get your ass out into traffic and learn to take up some space. Ride defensively. Get yourself a rear view mirror. Pick the most bike friendly route. For fucks sake.
Son_of_dad 4 points 2 years ago
I once made a left turn through a gap in the crowd downtown, then out of the ongoing crowd zips out a bike the opposite way out of nowhere. He almost hit the side of my car and of course he got mad at me, even though he was on the sidewalk which is illegal in my city, and he was riding against traffic
ArbitraryValue 11 points 2 years ago
I don't know about Oregon, but I see how people ride their e-bikes here in NYC and it makes me suspect that most e-bike/car collisions are the e-bike's fault.
Son_of_dad 9 points 2 years ago
I'm from Toronto, same. Also as a pedestrian, those ebikers scare me the way cars scare them. They're not allowed on the sidewalk in my city, but you'll be walking with your toddler and an ebike speeds past you on the sidewalk almost hitting you. And they'll switch between sidewalk and road depending on the traffic, so I have no love for ebikers.
guacupado 2 points 2 years ago
And they’ll switch between sidewalk and road depending on the traffic, so I have no love for ebikers.
This is the problem I have with bikes. They want the pros of pedestrians and vehicles without the cons of either.
Not_mikey 1 point 2 years ago
Blame the city not the biker. An person riding an bike will always choose a protected bike lane over having to weave through pedestrians on the sidewalk. If you want to get mad at someone get mad at the city for not putting down a bike lane instead of the biker just trying to not get hit. Pedestrians and cyclist need to have solidarity to take back the road from there dominance by cars. Fighting between each other over the scraps they give us only helps them, we need to demand more.
Son_of_dad 5 points 2 years ago
No. The city didn't zip past me and my kids, it was the biker. My city is filled with unused bike lanes as the bikes zip around the sidewalk
Not_mikey 0 points 2 years ago
Was there a protected bike lane next to you when they zipped passed you? It doesn't matter if there's a bunch of unused bike lanes in the city if they aren't where you need to go. There are tons of sidewalks and car lanes that sit unused most of the time but we keep them open because people will eventually use them.
If we treated bikes like we treat cars and pedestrians and give them they're own lane on every street none of this would happen, cause bikes don't want to ride on sidewalks just as much as pedestrians don't want them on the sidewalks. Weaving through pedestrians slows you down and is dangerous. You may be just as scared of bikes as the bikes are of cars but the cars aren't nearly as afraid of bikes as bikes are of pedestrians. If your in a car and you hit a bike your going to be fine physically cause your surrounded by a metal box meant to protect you. If your on a bike and hit a pedestrian , you may come out better than the pedestrian, but you are way more likely to be physically injured or dead then if you were a driver. There's a shared stake in avoiding collisions between pedestrians and cyclist that cars don't have.
The solution has to be more bike lanes and not less e-bikes because e-bikes are better for the environment and people's health than cars. Even looking at it as just a pedestrian your better with an e-bike riding in a lane next to you then a car, there less dangerous, quieter, and don't emit a bunch of toxic fumes and brake pad dust that you have to breathe in. The cars are the enemy, not the e-bikes.
Badeendje 9 points 2 years ago
Oh no, sensible regulation on e-bikes. Although the initial proposal was better. Splitting the bikes into classifications. And then splitting the eligibility by class (class 1 for any age) and class 2 and 3 for 16 and older.
The accident was horrible but also weird. Biking on the sidewalk? next to a highway?? With turns??? It just reads bizarre and like a traffic system that is very hostile to anything but cars.
dual_sport_dork 11 points 2 years ago
Remember that for state governments, "Highway" is a term of art that does not necessarily mean "elevated controlled access high speed multilane thoroughfare with on and off ramps" but usually more along the lines of, "anything paved, but not dirt." And the cops parrot this to make themselves sound like they're very officious and totally not useless doughnut-eaters, and then news outlets follow suit.
For example, my state's laws consistently use the word "highway" to refer to all paved roads that are under the purview of the state (i.e. not private roads, county roads, or municipal roads), even if they're not wide enough to have a center stripe. Then what we'd think of as a highway I believe is referred to as a "controlled access freeway."
Here is the location in question. This is definitely a Stroad, and it is certainly not a freeway. Stroads are well known to be hostile to pedestrians and cyclists. It also appears to have non-separated bike lines, i.e. some asshole just came by and painted bike icons on the existing shoulder, calling it job done.
Badeendje 3 points 2 years ago
Thanks for that tidbit of background. Much appreciated. The location does seem hostile to anything other than cars.. that's a stroad for you.
All that space can easily fit a protected bikelane and pavement on either side with a row of trees on the separator between the bikelane and the carlane.. such a waste.
Obligatory, stroads are stupid.
Kinglink 7 points 2 years ago
"Well we clearly need to make it even more illegal then" -The Government
(Although technically was 16 year olds not allowed to ride e-bikes? If so then this is more permissive, because it says 16 year olds can ride class 1 bikes)
someguy3 4 points 2 years ago
The bill creates three classifications of electric bicycles. Class 1 ebikes only provide assistance when a rider is actively pedaling and stops its motor when the bike reaches 20 mph. Class 2 ebikes can be propelled without pedaling and top out at 20 mph. And Class 3 ebikes require pedaling, come with a speedometer and top out at 28 mph.
Levy initially proposed allowing anyone, regardless of age, to use a Class 1 electric bicycle and making it a traffic violation for a child younger than 16 to use a Class 2 or Class 3 ebike. But as passed by the House, the bill would ban ebikes for anyone younger than 16 who doesn’t have a driver’s license or permit. Anyone 16 or older can use any ebike.
Hmmm. I think high school is when there might be a real need for an Ebike so I'd go with that age.
What age can you get a driver's license? Does a learners license count?
mildlyinfuriating
@lemmy.world
47240
1904
7489
Home to all things "Mildly Infuriating" Not infuriating, not enraging. Mildly Infuriating. All posts should reflect that. Please post actually infuriating posts to !actually_infuriating@lemmy.world
I want my day mildly ruined, not completely ruined. Please remember to refrain from reposting old content. If you post a post from reddit it is good practice to include a link and credit the OP. I'm not about stealing content!
It's just good to get something in this website for casual viewing whilst refreshing original content is added overtime.
Rules:
1. Be Respectful
Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.
Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.
...
2. No Illegal Content
Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.
That means: -No promoting violence/threats against any individuals
-No CSA content or Revenge Porn
-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)
...
3. No Spam
Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.
-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.
-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.
-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers
-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.
...
4. No Porn/Explicit
Content
-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.
-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.
...
5. No Enciting Harassment,
Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts
-Do not Brigade other Communities
-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.
-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.
-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.
...
6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.
...
7. Content should match the theme of this community.
-Content should be Mildly infuriating. If your post better fits !Actually_Infuriating put it there.
-The Community !actuallyinfuriating has been born so that's where you should post the big stuff.
...
8. Reposting of Reddit content is permitted, but attribution is not required in any way. No links to Reddit in post body
-If you would like to provide a source link, do so in the comments but not in the post body.
...
...
Also check out:
Partnered Communities:
Reach out to LillianVS for inclusion on the sidebar.
All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules.
go to feed...
mildlyinfuriating
@lemmy.world
47240
1904
7489
Home to all things "Mildly Infuriating" Not infuriating, not enraging. Mildly Infuriating. All posts should reflect that. Please post actually infuriating posts to !actually_infuriating@lemmy.world
I want my day mildly ruined, not completely ruined. Please remember to refrain from reposting old content. If you post a post from reddit it is good practice to include a link and credit the OP. I'm not about stealing content!
It's just good to get something in this website for casual viewing whilst refreshing original content is added overtime.
Rules:
1. Be Respectful
Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.
Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.
...
2. No Illegal Content
Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.
That means: -No promoting violence/threats against any individuals
-No CSA content or Revenge Porn
-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)
...
3. No Spam
Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.
-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.
-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.
-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers
-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.
...
4. No Porn/Explicit
Content
-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.
-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.
...
5. No Enciting Harassment,
Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts
-Do not Brigade other Communities
-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.
-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.
-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.
...
6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.
...
7. Content should match the theme of this community.
-Content should be Mildly infuriating. If your post better fits !Actually_Infuriating put it there.
-The Community !actuallyinfuriating has been born so that's where you should post the big stuff.
...
8. Reposting of Reddit content is permitted, but attribution is not required in any way. No links to Reddit in post body
-If you would like to provide a source link, do so in the comments but not in the post body.
...
...
Also check out:
Partnered Communities:
Reach out to LillianVS for inclusion on the sidebar.
All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules.
go to feed...
Umm that's not exactly what they're saying.
Hell the ACTUAL statute is just defining what a e-bike is. You can see it here: https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/...
It does say class 1 can be operated by anyone, but 2 and 3 can be limited to 16 and older. Yes that's more restrictive then the past, but really it's "Defining the e-bikes" because they were poorly defined based on an almost hundred year old law.
That being said it does limit the top speed of an e-bike to 28 miles an hour, I assume above that it's now a motocycle, and honestly, that might be a good thing, because at that speed they no will come out of no where (hell at 20-30 miles an hour they still will)
This is hardly as bad as the title.
save