Italy begins stripping lesbian mothers of their parental rights
3 years ago by Sam BOT to c/worldnews
One mom said she cried for 10 days after hearing she was being removed from her daughter's birth certificate.
right-wing political parties have ''be sub-human trash' written in their manifesto and yet people vote them into power.
From the article "Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, leader of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, made anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric a cornerstone of her campaign for office. She opposes allowing same-sex couples to adopt as well as marriage quality, calling civil union “good enough” for LGBTQ+ couples."
It's not enough to carve out a portion of your sovereignty for the kid diddler cult to have a golden castle city guarded by foreign mercenaries, you also have to listen to their stances on parenthood, which they are, surely, experts, in.
Wow that was haunting to read. How much they hurt these people that just want a family is sickening.
It’s not enough to carve out a portion of your sovereignty for the kid diddler cult
Huh, TIL the Catholic Church had lost all its territory to Italy and then later was granted some back (by Mussolini, no less) instead of having continuous sovereignty stemming from the Papal States and predating a unified Italy itself.
That's the second time in two days that I've been about to "ackchyually" somebody but ended up learning something myself instead. I'm getting more and more impressed with the quality of discussion here on Lemmy.
and there are restrictions that prevent the adoption of “stepchildren” by one parent.
That one was judged unconstitutional in Germany as it bereaves the child of a perfectly suitable caregiver -- that is it wasn't a matter of gay rights for the court but children's rights. In the end, before gay marriage was introduced, the only difference between marriages and civil unions was that gay couples could not adopt jointly, only one after the other, and generally speaking authorities are quite reluctant when it comes to singles adopting kids they aren't related to by blood.
earlier, i wrote a comment saying not to use fascism to hate humanity; at the same time, the fact that fascists are also human is something we have to acknowledge so we can stop our loved ones from falling into it
The thought that keeps me sane through this is believing that the pendulum swings both ways. We have to accept that there are people who like this, and I'm going to hate them for it, but opposition will always exist.
On the whole (a long time) things in society have improved and they'll continue to improve over time. It might just be our lot to have a shit round.
Except for climate change. That's existential.
Good. Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.
You don't HAVE to be bigoted trash. It IS possible to learn empathy for your fellow man, to understand that a person's sexuality does not make them more or less of a person. It IS possible to change your ways. It IS possible to make the changes within yourself... the changes that you need to make in order to prevent a sad future where your own children disown you for being a shitheel goon. It is possible to be, you know... a good person.
But I also get the feeling that you are too obsessed with the smell of your own farts to have any real understanding of how dumb you sound. Who cares if no one else wants to smell your wafting shit odor? You're perfectly happy simmering in your own idiot stink.
It's not too late. You don't have to be on the wrong side of history.
You created an account just to be an asshole? Jesus that's sad
Disgusting comments from some pro-lifers on this thread. Throwing this child into an orphanage when they had a stable family already is the anti-thesis of pro family doctrine. It's hypocritical ultra right wing bigotry. All that remains of the right is their absolute hatred of the left. This really is the death of right wing majority governments. We saw their true colours during the January 6th capitol hill insurrection, during the BLM protests, during the Ukraine and Syria conflicts where Republicans teamed up with foreign enemy governments and during Obama's presidency.
These are the kinds of people who go to a book club meeting every Sunday for a book that clearly non of them have ever read.
It's insane that ultra-right fascists (in Italy and America at least) always define themselves as "Christian."
Christ would flip tables on them and pull out his whip
That's something I learned from reading too many books about WWII. It all started with the little things. What's that "first they came" quote again?
First they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the Socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
You know what's ironic about that quote, especially in the context of this thread? The group who they really came for first was the LGBTQ, not the Communists. Even in the act of lamenting his failure to speak out, Niemöller failed to speak out about them.
Another related "fun" fact: the very first NAZI book burnings "included around 20,000 unique works on intersexuality, homosexuality, and transgender topics" from the Institute of Sex Research.
The nazis absolutely came first for the communists, as that was literally part of their rise to power, blaming the communists for the Reichtagsbrand and jailing members of the KPD and SPD so they couldn't vote against the proposal to give the NSDAP full control.
Alternatively, the NSDAPs founding program 10 years earlier contained "revocation of the german citizenship of jews" as a main point, though they didn't have the ability to do much at the time.
The group who they really came for first was the LGBTQ
Thats still not really taught in german schools (or at least mine) even though we have this subject at least a whole year in history class.
And whats also not taught is that the more that ten thousand gay people that were thrown in KZs were only rehabilitated in 2001 and those that were sentenced after 1945 in 2017. After the Nazi regime was over the persecution of queer people did not just stop.
Yet another proof that religion doesn't help anyone
All you need for evil to prevail is "good boundaries."
It's maddening to watch all of the progress made around the world getting pushed back for no good reason aside from making a minority of the population uncomfortable—with their beliefs being based on lies and misinformation.
Edited to reword for clarity.
It's the last desperate lashing out of the old beast.
People have been saying the "last so and so" or the death roll, or the movement is dying out by attrition. I just wish I had your optimism. I mean I did, but as I grew (in 40s now), I noticed that the numbers don't matter when you have power and a plan. Just keep your opposition from organizing properly by controlling the message and manufacturing outrage for the supporters to talk about instead of actually problems. The media sells their story to make money and also distract from the real problems (their owners).
Did the average person hear about the Senate hearings during covid? The oil execs that stated their board of directors only care about making record breaking profits during the pandemc, instead of trying to alleviate the burden on the general population. They probably wanted a yacht for their yacht. Can't let a good opportunity to make money go to waste. It's actually against the CEOs fiduciary obligation to the board to not make as much money as possible. Even if they have to factor in payouts for a faulty product that kills someone the life cost doesn't matter, legal, the only obligation is fiduciary.
Sure we have the "numbers," but the numbers don't matter too much when the system is set up to be run by a smaller group of people that just have to keep others out and confuse the majority by making news harder to shift through.
The thing is, they are only uncomfortable with it because some fascist politician is telling them to be uncomfortable with it. I am a same-sex married person with children. When people are face-to-face with a regular person like myself who happens to be married to someone of the same gender and has kids, most people actually have very little problem with it. But then some politician feeds them lies, lies that are then propagated on Facebook or Twitter, and suddenly they have an issue with the concept.
What is happening in Italy terrifies me. It's terrifying because it is the same slippery slope Russia went down and the same slippery slope we're heading down in the USA. We're watching it happen in real time with kids who are transgender. The GOP is not stopping there. They have already shown they are a full-on fascists. They will not stop until the USA is their authoritarian utopia.
This is EXACTLY my biggest worry and frustration. We are seeing a large group of people who think the way they are told to think and believe what they are told to believe. Unquestioningly.
These people cannot be reasoned with or educated when it comes to the subjects in question...
... except at the same time they're completely different when talking to individuals from the targeted groups face to face. I see it every day. For instance railing about something LGBTQ+ related from Faux Newz then greeting a friend and his husband 15 minutes later.
It's mind boggling: not just the behavior but the number of people who are so gullible.
Since the progressives and people who want redistribution of wealth, more regulation and bureaucracy, and for the state to take care of them are highly intersecting groups - I'd say they have made their bed and have to lie in it now.
It took just a little nudge, it seems, to make governments sufficiently insensitive and powerful again to start taking the rights one may consider secure, because it's other people being forced, not you, right?..
Sad but not surprised.
Still scary to see that it's Italy, not, you know, Hungary or Poland or at least Austria.
Love seeing the sheep who think that "progressives" are the problem will happily elect the assholes that expand government reach, take more of the peoples' money while simping for the rich, and work to screw the people the most in any other ways they can imagine.
People like you are the problem. It's just ridiculously easy to convince you simpletons it's not. Run on and piss off.
Everyone that wants the state to have more power over people's life, property and labor is to blame. You can't give power to a position that is selected through a popularity contest.
Your blind devotion to libertarian politics has prevented you from even understanding the issue we're all discussing. We're talking about a right wing government taking children away from their parents because of their sexual orientation. Progressives didn't vote for that.
will happily elect the assholes that expand government reach
I won't. However I'm in a country where election doesn't decide anything anymore (and if it did, the last time was a few months after I was born), military force will at some point of decay.
Love seeing the sheep
It's peculiar to see a whole crowd of people illiterate in economics calling everybody outside their group "sheep".
take more of the peoples’ money
Progressives are usually friendlier to the idea of raising taxes. Which is taking people's money. No, it's not different.
It’s just ridiculously easy to convince you simpletons it’s not.
But it's people like you doing the same thing in every generation and acting surprised when it turns out that for any big corporation (including the goverment) they are bugs.
Run on and piss off.
OK, now that's my grave mistake, I really didn't want to piss on you, but the wind ...
The Dunning-Krueger is strong with this one...
I'm not engaging with a sheep that has swallowed every crumb of bullshit they've been fed.
And since you're slow with phrases, this one's hopefully more clear: Go fuck yourself. Seeing the flavor of your comments on a thread concerning women's rights, that's likely all you'll ever do anyway.
Raising taxes on the people that chronically find ways to never pay taxes. Not raising taxes on regular people. Nice try framing the argument the way you think it ought to go.
Yes, progressives are usually more centralist-democratic than institutionalist. So government taking something by force just because it's been voted for is more normal for them.
Thus I'm saying that this is one way this can look in reality. Though taking children is a bit too grotesque, yes. But it's not as if my tone here can change anything for people hit by this law.
To reiterate, I'm asking you to elaborate on a direct link between what progressives want and the government taking children away from their families.
What you've said is tantamount to: "well progressives want the government to do things, and now the government is doing bad things that progressives don't want them to do, but they're still things, just like progressives wanted."
I’m so sick of humanity.
Centralized systems lend themselves to fascism, and our species is undergoing it's most all encompassing centralization ever.
It's like if you hate mushrooms. You don't say that you hate all food, just mushrooms.
inhumanity is guaranteed when a right-wing political party forms the government.
From the article "Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, leader of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, made anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric a cornerstone of her campaign for office. She opposes allowing same-sex couples to adopt as well as marriage quality, calling civil union “good enough” for LGBTQ+ couples."
No, there are unresolved conflicts in Italy sincw ww2, that was for Italy a civil war. They might lose elections, but the demons are part of Italian society.
Funnily enough, US is partially responsible for the survival of these demons. They've survived after ww2 heavily financed by CIA (including the fascist party now in lead of the government). CIA also financed a failed fascist coup and terrorist groups meant to shift italian society to extreme right. These groups are famously responsible for terrorist attacks meant to be blamed on communists in the 70s, with 10s of deaths. More recently CIA have been financed heavy discredit campaigns against prominent left politicians, to the advantage of Berlusconi. They are clearly not the only responsible, they simply financed internal "demons". But drifting italian politics to right has been a long term agenda, as Italy had at one point the biggest communist party outside russia, and socialists forces used to be extremely strong, exactly due to the underlying civil war never solved since ww2
The child is not taken away. The non-biological mother loses her status as a parent, but the biological mother is still registered as the child's mother.
This does mean, however, that if the biological mother dies the state may take the child away from the non-biological mother.
Right so they are equal except some are more equal than others.
I'm sure you understand this already, but your idea is politically and morally equivalent to what's happening in the article. Everyone has the right to freedom of religion.
edit: Strange that people become like this when told that religious people deserve protections as a minority or protected class. I'd hoped to leave new athiest cringe behind at spez's place but apparently you can't have everything.
It is ironic that there should be freedom of religion when religion is the one taking freedom away
Not really, Christianity in the US was and continues to be a corporate funded endeavour. That doesn't make the belief system inherently bad, it's like most things that have been corrupted by moneyed interests.
edit: spelling, grammar.
Structured belief systems led by a man wearing entirely gold while telling everyone to follow the teachings of Christ is bad though. It's meant to control, specifically women and children.
The LGBT community is far less likely to force a lifestyle onto their children than the religious community is.
I have trans friends with kids. They don't even circumcise them.
Nope, just remove the brest of healty woman :)
Can you say that again, but in English?
cough cough circumcisioncough cough
Fucking fascists doing fascist things.
Italians didn't learn for sure. Next time you beat their asses through make sure not to do it with the help of the mafia and other criminals who got this government elected.
But USA is doing the same though, tbh even worse than this
Italy switched sides at the last moment and got off practically without repercussions.
I heard that indeed the Italian government did not do a good job teaching their kids about fascism. In other places such as Germany and Switzerland (and many others, I hope) most students get to know how fascism works and how harmful it is. At least when I was in school, this was part of the teaching program. But in Italy? Apparently not.
Glad to hear. I just don't get how a fascist gets elected to be president. What's the mechanism? I can think of only three explanations:
- people are unaware or misinformed
- people have nearly no influence
- people actually want fascism
My daughter would loose her second mother though she has been there for her since birth and even before that.
My wife would not be allowed to sign a document for our daughter or visit her in the hospital when she is sick.
I absolutely don't know how the Italiens can accept such a move.
Cutely is the point.
This sounds really bad and I'm afraid it's even worse than it sounds. For example, end of 2022 Italy introduced a law which bans certain types of harmless assemblies (rave parties) of more than 50 people (participants can be put to jail for up to 6 years). This is paving the road for cutting possibilities of people to protest against their government. (Imagine, there is a a protest and somebody plays music. The government will see a rave party.) Yet the Italian government seems to have no problem with 3000 neofascists visiting the hometown of Mussolini. And now this.
This isn’t completely true. The right of assembly is a constitutional right in Italy within small limits (the assembly must be peaceful, without firearms, and requires a notice to local authorities if it uses a public space, see art. 17.
Now, I don’t believe that a rave party falls within those protections as it isn’t protected speech (and I don’t believe there is a place where it is).
Italy will continue to have protests and marched, usually with music because Italy.
I think the argument is more that the government could use these laws to categorise a protest with music (lawful) as a rave (unlawful) and arrest those involved, thus discouraging further protests.
I appreciate it's a bit of a slippery slope argument, I was just clarifying the parent comment's argument. I'm not sure how much your retort adds to the argument though.
I'm curious if you feel the same way about Italy and nearly every other country already banning protests because "it's for yours or others safety" like they dd when they passed extremely Draconian covid policies.
And this is not hypothetical. Police didn't allow people to manifest against the gov.
What you say is bad, but it I hope people would be consistently appalled. Not just partisan based.
Dude, you're not much better if you write comments like this. Chill out man.
I don't want to be better, I want to be alive. These people want to destroy minorities. It is SELF DEFENCE for everyone that is a member of a minority group and everyone that supports minorities to want to destroy fascists.
None of this would be a fucking problem if you people actually did something about them in advance for once. Socialists recognise the need for re-education as a means of correcting when various parts of the population are going down the wrong path but liberals time and time again completely ignore the problem until it is too late plunging countries into conflict. You don't do jack shit until the only solution is violence when in reality it could be solved non-violently much much earlier if you acknowledge that these people need putting through rehabilitation facilities.
The fact of the matter is that it's already too fucking late for that. Both in america and in several other countries. The only option now is the inevitability of things progressing until violence.
Bear in mind that in fascism, the only majority is the person at the top. The circle always shrinks as far as it can to make the in group smaller and the our group larger.
All the fascist apologists and deniers who think “well I’ll be safe” don’t understand this and don’t see that the circle will eventually cut them out.
In the real world, evil must be met with appropriate force. Not every "right" action is covered in flowers and rainbows, sometimes you have to do hard, unlikeable things because otherwise people trying to change the world for the worse will succeed. You can't give fascists a slap on the wrist.
Nope. Fascists need to be executed before they get the power to hang everyone else.
Won't somebody think of the poor fascists?? T_T
Not everything needs a sarcasm tag.
I have to agree with you.
That is sick. Absolutely sick.
Under current Italian law, the member of a same-sex couple who is not legally recognized as a child’s parent could lose custody if the legally recognized parent dies or the relationship ends.
Shameful, hateful shit. What the hell Italy.
I'm gonna admit to doing the reddit thing where I read the title and the comments and start to form an opinion.
Reading your comment, I thought Hmm, well, that doesn't seem too unreasonable. Should a new partner in a separated-parents-scenario really have a claim on custody? Well, reading the actual article where same-sex couples get married and have children get the birth certificate retroactively changed to not include one of the parents is a whole different story.
Shameful, hateful shit. What the hell Italy.
Yeah, I'm with you. What the actual hell.
Even if they hate homosexual couples, doing this retroactively as a surprise brings this to a whole new level. Are there any ways for these people to reobtain their parental rights, like adoption?
They cannot legally adopt in Italy. And even if they could i am not sure if that wouldn't require the recognized parent to give them up first, so never both people can legally bebconsidered parents and have right to custody.
Is this new? I mean was same sex couple adopting allowed and then dont? Or has it always been unrecognized?
So the EU doesn't have an official stance on these issues? Or is the EU more about trade only?
The EU, while having standards on many social topics is primarily a trade union. There are attempts made to form it into more, but that reduces the power of local governments and most decisions require all 27 governments to be on board. In particular Poland and Hungary are run by right wing extremist authoritarian governments, that regularly blockade things to get their will.
The what rule...??
What the fuck
WTF indeed.
here's the bbc news article : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66174352
No dude, they're not fascists, they're socialists. Social media says everyone in Europe is to the left of America
Damn true. What's wild is that people not only believe that a spectrum literally invented to describe the french revolutionary government holds in all countries everywhere but that the non continental West ought to give any "left" authority whatsoever to the countries who invented white supremacist imperialism.
There is no good reason for this and this will cause a large amount of issues, let alone the pain it causes to the families affected by it.
This doesn’t seem purely populism for the anti-lgbtqia+ crowd, it seems too nuanced for that. I’m guessing it’s waiting until a high-placed official of the catholic church voices his support for Meloni during her next campaign.
EDIT: It already happend, she was endorsed by a Cardinal and several other members of the Italian church.
Because people will defend the church at all costs, or else they risk questioning their own legitimacy.
Sorry Italy, Americans know about having really shitty politicians.
I fail to see how you made this about your own country.
If sympathy was expressed your comment would have made sense
My opinion is that state and law should not care about sex of a parent or partner. Just to guarantee us all the same rights.
My other option is that this is quite bad news article (thou that might not be news site, so it is not on them, but on us) since there are a lot of opinions but is hard to find any facts in it.
What exactly is the law? Who exactly is who? What are the consequences, practical not only emotional? This is raising fear levels, but I am not certain what to fight against (except whole Italian government).
Your spelling is fine . particularly when we remember the deaf children at the Antonio Provolo Institute for Deaf and Hearing Impaired Children in Lujan de Cuyo who were abused, tortured, and raped by priests for more than a decade. and the priiests had helpers who helped them commit these horrors. Of course, the pope and his vatican knew about it and chose to let it continue. cos that's what they do.
sources:
https://www.pbs.org/...
https://english.elpais.com/... (alternate link : https://archive.ph/9Pa26)
https://cruxnow.com/... (alterate link : https://archive.ph/e2t6z)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/... (Alterate link : https://archive.ph/N9IzF)
https://international.la-croix.com/... (alterate link : https://archive.ph/8W6QZ)
Anyone who can read these accounts without throwing up has a stronger constituton than me.
But the mayor of Padua, Sergio Giordani, is defying the government’s orders and continuing to issue birth certificates recognizing two-mom families.
God bless this man. May the rest of Italy be so bold!
And so it motherfucking begins 🤦
Where have you been for like the entire Berlusconi administration
As long as they send weapons to Ukraine this vassal states government has the USA's protection to do whatever they want.
I thought Berlusconi was in power for a really long time. 2001-2006?
I mean, they made a Mussolini fangirl prime minister. I’m honestly surprised they were able to keep the anti-lgbt agenda hidden this long.
Absolutely disgusting.
Hey it's not like they're looking down the barrel of sea levels destroying Florence while the rest of the country is air fried, lots of time to waste with this frivolous nonsense.
So what happens when a trans lesbian has a kid with a cis lesbian in the usual way children are made? Does the kid lose their sperm donor as a parent??
Well that's horrible.
If the state infringes on your natural rights, just ignore it and defend your way of life through any means necessary
It's 52.2degrees in China, and we are worrying about this shit still
EDIT TO CLARIFY: I think people should be able to have a family made up of who ever they want. Being in a traditional family does not magically guarantee a safe space
Bro it's not even a "it's X in China" problem, Italy is being hit extremely hard by the climate crisis it's nust that the right wing doesn't give a shit because that would require pissing off the lobbies and actually having to do intelligent things that their voters don't like.
Not that the main available options for the left are any better tbh
There's literally a lot of posts talking about global warming. We can discuss both at the same time, you know.
This, and all the other extreme events happening all over the world, is exactly why these extremists are so succesful.
Right wing populists provides very simple (but of course blatantly wrong) answers to all the problems in the world: It is the fault of the minorities. It is much easier for people to accept such simple but moronic "solutions" instead of having to deal with the fact that reality is complex and that some problems are very difficult to solve.
These fascists are only going to get more succesful as things gets even worse. The economy is going to get gradually worse for the common man, the number of climate refugees will keep rising, wars for resources will occur (creating more refugees) and fascists will thrive with their seemingly simple solutions which will only help make matters even worse, since they will do nothing to combat climate change or change the economic system, and their nationalism will only make the risk of wars starting even greater.
This, and all the other extreme events happening all over the world, is exactly why these extremists are so succesful.
No, the core reason is that people "care" about some one thing, maybe two or free, which make up their daily news.
There are mass murders, catastrophes, climate disasters all around the world all the time. Instead of this "daily news" algorithm one should pick the area (maybe a few) in which they want to help and do that. Make it unpaid work instead of virtue signalling.
Also I'm not arguing these people are fascists, but there are fascists doing much worse things, like honest to God mass murders, today on our planet. Yet they don't matter, because this is Italy and that is brown people killing each other.
The ones in Italy are fascists. The current party is directly descended from the neo-fascist MSI which was founded by fascists after the war. The PM has been part of it and its successor parties since she joined the MSI Youth Front in the 90s as a teen.
Try to maintain your humanity and empathy for others, or what point is there to persist in our warming world?
I verified that the title is accurate, so not rage bait.
I'm curious what exactly you think is rage bait in that title. I don't think you actually know what that means
I worry about them sometimes. If your entire culture is focused on a different one...
I dunno man, two dads sound fun, but 1 mum was enough for me.
Just because heterosexual parents are the norm, doesn't mean that it's better.
I'd argue the opposite. Same sex parents have a harder time getting a child. A wanted child will probably fare better than a child conceived by two people that are culturally expected to breed.
So if a parent dies, what would have to happen according to you? Or if the parents are below a certain income? Or live in a bad area? Even if there was such a thing as an ideal parent or home situation, how many couples would fit that description do you think?
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Rules:
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No racism or bigotry.
Posts from sources that aren't known to be incredibly biased for either side of the spectrum are preferred. If this is not an option, you may post from whatever source you have as long as it is relevant to this community.
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you have to be sub-human trash to be ok with this
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