[Announcement] New set of communities made hidden

2 years ago by UlrikHD to c/meta

We have over a period of time gotten repeated reports of unmarked NSFW posts in certain communities. All of these communities share the same singular mod, who have shown indifference when content has been reported. As leaving NSFW posts unmarked is against our instance rules, we have moved to set the rule-breaking communities to hidden.

Those of you who subscribe to hidden communities will continue to see them as normal, for everyone else these communities will look empty and hidden from c/all.

The newly hidden communities are:

We would also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that programming.dev's policy is to by default hide political communities, pornographic communities and communities hosting bot spam. Users seeking such content can subscribe to hidden communities so see them as normal.

Just recently we also went ahead and hid communities from lemmygrad due to the politics clause.

As always we encourage our local users to report content that break our instance rules. All content you report are seen by the admin team and helps inform the team of what's going on across the fediverse.

ThePantser 14 points 2 years ago

I think I have actually hidden all of those already since idk who moe is I didn't care. 😂 Who is moe?

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kartoffelsaft 12 points 2 years ago

I've tried to hide all the moes but it feels sisyphean. I hide cyber moe, military moe, office moe... but the next day someone is going to start taco moe and I will see a half naked girl with cheese hair and a lettuce bra. There is no escape.

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Alk 5 points 2 years ago

Well I wouldn't have if you didn't give me the idea. It's taco time.

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Alk 11 points 2 years ago

I think he's that Simpsons barkeep

(real answer, it means cute, more or less, in Japanese. pronounced "Mo-eh")

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MajorHavoc 12 points 2 years ago

That's great. Thanks.

I was getting tired of bop-a-mole blocking these.

I like a NSFW picture just fine, sometimes, but the NSFW toggle doesn't work for communities that don't even attempt to tag their content.

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lemonmelon 7 points 2 years ago

Missed opportunity for "bop-a-moe"

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Scoopta 8 points 2 years ago

Me when this post has led me to find cute anime girl communities lol. I respect the decision to do it...but I'll be subscribing to some of these

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MentalEdge 7 points 2 years ago

I understand and approve of the decision.

But please don't perpetuate the idea that I don't take moderation seriusly.

A difference in sensibility between me and someone else, is not indifference on my part.

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UlrikHD 3 points 2 years ago

I can only report on what I've been told by those who have directly dealt with the reports, my apologies if parts of the phrasing are inaccurate/poorly made. I'll make a note that we should probably reach out to relevant moderators beforehand next time we make similar actions.

As for differing sensibilities, I'm not sure most people would classify this kind of content as safe to browse at work/in public.

Regardless, we are not here to make demands or argue on how other instances moderate their own content. This post is made mainly to keep our actions transparent to our local users.

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MentalEdge 1 point 2 years ago

Thank you for the aknowledgement.

When it comes to that second post, had I gotten a report on it, I would probably have flipped my decision not to mark it NSFW, as I have done on some posts in the past.

But I didnt get a report. Edit: though I went ahead and changed it now.

The others I could hang up as posters at work just fine.

On the subject of sensibilities differing

I have images like that one, and "worse" in my wallpaper rotation both on my phone and PC. I even have some pieces depicting actual nudity in an artistic setting.

My city has public statues and art installations that do that. In fact kind of a lot of places do. Way too much of the world suffers what I consider weird hangups on this subject.

I get separating pornography from public display, but this isn't that.

While I respect people not wanting to see certain content (and their right to block it), I don't see what's so offensive about the human body, or the aesthetic appreciation for it that some us feel, to the point that even non-nudity that displays the wrong shapes has to be censored lest someone somewhwere take offence to the point of it causing genuine averse consequences.

Even then, lemmy doesn't have the kind of complex tagging system that would allow people to define what they don't want to see before they see it. I expressed in this thread that I don't want porn in my feed, but if I were to disable NSFW content on my profile, a lot of not-porn I do want to see would go with it.

How many people would miss my post if I err on the side of caution too much?

Would I flag it as "midly provocative" if that was an option to allow those who want to to filter it out? Sure. But we don't have proper tagging on lemmy. Not yet. And NSFW is synonymous with pornography for A LOT of people, which again, this isnt.

Hence why sopulis policies on blocking porn fit me so well. And why programming.dev should absolutely do the equivalent for whatever types of content you want enable your users to see.

I realise I'm at an extreme end of the matter, which is why I DO flag some things as NSFW even when I don't personally bat an eye.

But I also can't just flag everything, or mark the entire communties NSFW, because that IS used for porn, and will be what users expect and post if I did.

So I do my best to offend fewer people, but at the same time the content I want to share is often in a place where people simply don't agree on what it is and how to categorize it.

And while posting with an abundance of caution would be nice, it means suppressing discovery on all instances, instead of just some, and mostly being found by users browsing for something to masturbate to.

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verity_kindle 7 points 2 years ago

Thank you for hiding that, I was sick of it.

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MentalEdge 15 points 2 years ago

Your feed will not be affected, as this is a decision affecting programming.dev.

Your account is on sh.itjust.works.

If you'd like to remove my communities from your feed, I list them all in the sidebars on each of them, so you could block them from there.

And I do not currently have plans to set up any more.

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Alk 10 points 2 years ago

I don't believe it's hidden for you, as the OP is from a different instance.

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grudan 5 points 2 years ago

So I’m confused by the whole community hiding thing. Since I’m local to programming.dev, the owner of programming.dev can hide communities from other instances for me? I get that these communities aren’t moderated well, but it seems like the instance owner that those communities are in should be the one on top of that or risk defederation. I don’t really love that my local instance can just hide things from other instances.

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Die4Ever 11 points 2 years ago

hidden just means it won't show up in the All feed, but you can still subscribe to see all the posts from them

so this is much softer than defederation, and it's per community instead of an entire instance

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UlrikHD 8 points 2 years ago

Hiding communities outside our predefined rules (politics, porn and bot spam) isn't something we take lightly, and we are only hiding them now after several months of reoccurring reports that break our instance rules (3.4).

We will do our best to be transparent about when and why we hide a new communities, and be aware that subscribing to a hidden community will unhide it for your feed.

If you do have concerns and suggestions on how to alleviate those, please know that we are happy receive feedback.

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leverage 4 points 2 years ago

Neat thing is, you can just join another instance, or even setup your own. Instance admins can and already do defederate entirely from other instances, you won't ever be able to see that content without leaving the site. Hiding on the other hand means you can still see it if you subscribe to it, they just aren't having it show up on the default feed. This should result in less severe action, like defederation, it's a great improvement. Downside exists, but it comes with more upside. Join an instance that appears to align with your ideals and you will get the benefit of a feed that allows for content discovery. NSFW content discovery is probably better done on an NSFW centric instance anyway.

If you are trying to compare this system to something like Reddit, lamenting the added effort of picking an instance and needing to move around sometimes, this is just one of those things people need to accept and start pushing for changes that make the process easier. The alternative is going back to big tech and eating whatever shit they decide to serve.

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grudan 2 points 2 years ago

Yeah that is neat and a huge improvement over having Reddit as a dictator over content. At the moment, I think it’s a barrier of entry though. Maybe that’s a good thing too. I actually like Lemmy more because my feed is slower due to having less people posting on the communities I follow than the subreddits I follow.

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MentalEdge 3 points 2 years ago

They can't. They can only hide things for their users, not other instances.

The local home admin of a community could entirely remove it, but they cannot hide it for other instances.

For off-instance communities, an admin can either hide them (visible to local subscribers) or block that one community (visible to no-one on the instance). But this again only affects the one instance, and has to be done by each instance that wants that community to be hidden or blocked.

Even if a community is hidden on its home instance, it would only become hidden on that one instance.

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grudan 2 points 2 years ago

Yeah, this is what I meant. I think it’s kind of odd for an instance to be moderating other instances for its users, if that makes it clearer.

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Tarquinn2049 6 points 2 years ago

Oh, I didn't even know they had any unmarked NSFW pictures on the moe channels, they all looked completely safe to me.

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MentalEdge 2 points 2 years ago

In my opinion, we don't. But what is "too sexy" varies by a lot.

It's impossible to please everyone, so I just do my best to toe a line I think is reasonable.

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UlrikHD 3 points 2 years ago

Discussions are getting off-topic and this is an announcement post, not a discussion post, so I'm locking the post.

If local users want to have an in-depth discussion regarding admin moderation of programming.dev, you're encouraged to make a discussion thread in !meta@programming.dev.

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Blaze 2 points 2 years ago

@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz FYI

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MentalEdge 6 points 2 years ago

Hidden communities are a good feature.

It is unfortunate that it reduces discovery, but as marking posts NSFW when I think they aren't also suppresses discovery, I don't consider this a loss in the slightest.

The opposite. Hidden, but available, is a very good place to be for a lot of the content I post.

Instances can and should run their operations the way they see fit, hence creating a diverse range of options for users on what kind of "front page" they'd like to see.

Hence my affinity for sopuli, which straight up defederates instances that host mostly pornography, as that is a genre of content I have no interest in consuming or sharing.

I do take some issue with presenting my threshold for what constitutes NSFW to be "indifference", but that's a diplomatic issue. I am not indefferent in moderating my communities, and I'm a little insulted anyone would come to that interpretation given they actually looked into my actions.

People have different sensibilities, and while I have used reports and comments to gauge where that line is for others, I don't see the utility in erring on the side of caution beyond a certain point.

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davidagain -1 points 2 years ago

No, it's completely indifference to other people's desire to use NSFW to mean Not Suitable For Work.

I certainly don't work in an environment where having cartoons of scantily clad girls in suggestive poses on my phone screen in my lunch hour is in any way acceptable, and I don't think I'm unusual in that.

You don't care about that, you've made that very clear in the past, you just care about how many views you can get for your adolescent-look content which is "mildly arousing" - your words, not mine.

I don't know why you think "mildly arousing" is somehow safe content to browse at work.

So yeah, you've expressed absolute indifference to other people's need for a clean feed by refusing to tag your content appropriately. You harm the fediverse by trying to impose your will,

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MentalEdge 7 points 2 years ago

So set up an account on programming.dev.

I'm not going to retort any of the rest. I've made my point before and in this thread. You've clearly decided it's unreasonable, and gone ahead with interpreting it as negatively as possible.

For anyone else reading, yes, I have and would describe some content I post as "mildly arousing" but a lot of that would fall under the stuff I DO mark NSFW.

This person is acting as if I never mark anything NSFW and don't care who it affects. This is incorrect.

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davidagain -3 points 2 years ago

This person is acting as if I never mark anything NSFW and don’t care who it affects.

That's a straw man. What I claim is that whenever people ask that your NSFW "mildy arousing" pictures of girls are tagged appropriately as NSFW you refuse, that you have a really high bar for what counts as NSFW, that that bar is far higher than most workplaces, and that you simply don't care and refuse to tag.

And yes, you are completely indifferent to the effect of your actions on others. Whack-a-mole is the right description of how we have to respond.

You literally ask for "mildly arousing" content in the sidebar on the link I clicked from elsewhere in this thread, so please don't make out that that's a small minority of what you make and promote.

You don't address the points about NSFW meaning not suitable for work because you don't care and you don't have good points to make about it.

All this, by your own admission, is because when you tag stuff as NSFW it gets fewer views, as if the internet owes you its eyes. You're like those irritating ads about meeting attractive women in your area. You don't care whether it's appropriate when I'm browsing SFW content, you just want the views.

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