Signal's CEO: Then We're Leaving Sweden | Sweden Herald
a year ago by schizoidman to c/europe
- According to Whittaker, the bill requires the encrypted messaging app Signal to install so-called backdoors in the software.
And gobbles Trump's knob publicly.
They won't need a law to force compliance.
Yeah, to be honest if you need to hide from the government, don't use Proton. Actually, don't use email.
Proton is good for hiding from Google and Facebook, and not having a life full of ads.
Sci-fi writing in here I see
EDIT: For the downvoters:
- He clearly didn't support Trump in general, but he did praise Trump's pick for the antitrust position.
- Proton code for the clients is opensource, so it's not possible to add backdoors without being discovered (encryption happens in the clients).
- Proton business model is inherently disincentivizing them to do so. They are a profitable company with a clear profile that would lose so many customers if they decide to do so.
- Proton is incorporated in Switzerland, it's unclear what the benefit would be to "appease" Trump.
- Proton is controlled by a nonprofit. In the board of this nonprofit there are people like Carissa Veliz (author of "Privacy is power") and Tim Berners Lee. So even if Andy Yen was a full on MAGA, he still wouldn't have autonomy to decide that. Note that he ceded control himself.
- There is absolutely nothing in the history of Proton that suggests they would be open to backdooring their software.
- There is a long track record of choices to protect users' privacy. This also includes yearly substantial donations to nonprofits who work in this space.
If this is not enough, I don't know what is, but for sure the baseless accusations of a random user shouldn't be enough as well.
He clearly didn’t support Trump in general
lie
so it’s not possible to add backdoors
lie
Proton business model is inherently disincentivizing them to do so. They are a profitable company with a clear profile that would lose so many customers if they decide to do so.
Didn't work on you
Proton is incorporated in Switzerland, it’s unclear what the benefit would be to “appease” Trump.
Straw man
So even if Andy Yen was a full on MAGA, he still wouldn’t have autonomy to decide that.
being a non profit and him owning enough of it to do what he wants are unrelated.
There is absolutely nothing in the history of Proton that suggests they would be open to backdooring their software.
There is a long track record of choices to protect users’ privacy.
Tell that french activist they turned logging on for and gave up to the authorities.
Yes, what possible benefit could a Swiss company that sells privacy might receive from cozing up to a fascist state?
Lies about what the CEO said with the official account.
One of his direct statements btw:
"10 years ago, Republicans were the party of big business and Dems stood for the little guys, but today the tables have completely turned.”
Thinks non-profit is anything but a tax status. Hasn't paid enough attention to all the "non-profit" companies switching to for-profit as soon as it's financially convenient, much less the "non-profits" that only exist to funnel money to their overpaid executives.
Doesn't realize that Proton's biggest security vulnerability is Proton the organization.
Fucking lol. Actual clown shit trying to bait people into the honeypot.
I wanted to reply to your points but someone beat me to it.
Learn to think critically. Close the app for a day, cool off and re-read all of these replies.
Do you think we would all just dump on something for the fun of it or just to piss you off? This isnt reddit.
Cmon man, take a second, look around and understand that the taste of boot leather is not very pleasant. Proton is not here for your privacy ... I mean it is, unless you're a french journalist ... or a person of interest for the right people.
The news is about a proposed law in Sweden, not Switzerland.
Is this law broad enough to also catch up Proton and its services?
They don't need a law, they already logged and complied on request
Proton is a company claiming to operate under Swiss law (which is doubtful,as the company itself is US based).
Sadly Swiss data privacy laws are shit and it's intelligence agencies are known for overreach, especially when it comes to cross border data traffic.
And now it starts. Programs specifically designed to be encrypted getting attacked.
"Now"? Apps like Signals are constantly under fire. Whitaker already told the whole EU it would just leave if they introduced the "chat control" legislation.
Apps like Signals
This was about a different app named 'Signal', I think, without the s.
‘Signal’, I think, without the s.
Never heard of this ignal app
Meanwhile, the Swedish Armed Forces recently decided to use Signal for secure communication: https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/...
Half of the original article:
The Armed Forces, on the other hand, are negative and write in a letter to the government that the proposal cannot be realized "without introducing vulnerabilities and backdoors that can be exploited by third parties", reports SVT.
So that's covered.
There needs to be a messaging app which provides a backdoor for every government that requests it. Every time some dumbass legislator asks for a super-giga-secure-backdoor they promise not to misuse, they should be directed to that app.
That's the secret you give them all the same backdoor.
That sounds like unencrypted communication with extra steps. Why not skip all of that and just give them an unencrypted service anyone can read and use. While we are at it, getting rid of those pesky passwords and unwieldy usernames is also a great idea. What could go wrong... I mean CLEARLY no one has anything to hide...
It’s worth noting that mullvad is based in Sweden
There absolutely is a way to make it log more. Simply add a function to dump the data passing through it. Just because right now there is no such function does not mean one cannot be added.
No wonder they pussied out and removed port forwarding
We're talking about Signal, not FB Messenger. People use Signal because of the encryption, and they would leave.
While that's generally true, one of the main reasons why people choose apps like Signal is the privacy. People that aren't aware and don't care generally wouldn't have switched to Signal in the first place.
I agree that it would destroy the reason many people use it, but they aren't outlawing Signal specifically. What they are doing is arguably worse, but this isn't an "anti-Signal" action.
The problem is that politicians don't understand cyber security, whta their asking is basically the equivalent of closing the front door of a house and leaving the backdoor open. It was already proven to be a bad idea, eternalblue is a good example.
That is because they just decided to switch to use it for internal communications. This means that they would have to roll back that decision.
Technically only for non-classified internal communication. Classified stuff is restricted to be discussed only using military approved locked down hardware. But still, issuing a strong recommendation for Signal above all other options when communicating using regular devices is a good thing. Lots of "regular" conversations can still leak more than you expect through metadata, timing, etc, so they trust Signal to protect that
I mean beyond everything else, any group actually interested in the safety and security of citizens (so, not politicians or cops anywhere apparently), should be pushing everything to be encrypted everywhere. In the modern digital world anything not properly encrypted is at risk for ate tracks by bad actors.
Don't know if it's a trustworthy source, but:
It's posted on their own site:
I have to ask. If Signal "leaves" Sweden because it is deemed illegal without backdoor, how would this even work regarding enforcement? Your phone gets searched and if they find Signal you get a fee? Messaging being blocked somehow by Swedish ISPs, is that even possible?
Signal will be delisted from Android/Apple store. That'll curb the majority of Signal use in Sweden. I suspect Sweden isn't going to after individuals. They could if they wanted to. ISP blocking, probably not, but yes ISPs can block Signal by blocking all known Signal servers. That's why Signal supports special proxies that allow individuals to run to allow people from blocked locations to access the Signal servers.
That’ll curb the majority of Signal use in Sweden.
...unless a bunch of users plan to actually do something illegal, in which case a delisting from the app store doesn't stop anything. Once again, it's just to enable data collection about as many ordinary citizens as possible.
The proposed law would require messaging apps to store copies of user messages.
The law isn’t targeted at users directly. It’s targeted at the service providers. If the cops can access your phone you’re already screwed.
Blocking Signal traffic might be theoretically feasible but it would be a game of whack-a-mole. Legally, Signal might have to stop serving IPs in Sweden but that’s Sweden’s problem and VPNs exist.
The question was what Signal would do though ...
I don't get how its supposed to work...they want to require messengers to include backdoors in their software? So when a program is FOSS, then you can literally just use it knowing there is no backdoor..also, what blocks you from using a server in different country? Wtf that even means...
Then politicians would simply require for "any technical measures to ensure the backdoor to be available" or something like that, meaning it would be Signals' job to ensure the backdoor works. They don't give a shit how something is done (IT is just too complex for most of them), only that it gets done somehow. For that very reason federal digital services are such a shitshow so often, they just don't understand what they even ask for so professionals always have to work around politicians' demands constantly breaking even the most basic security principles.
I found the other Threema user! 🎉
DeltaChat makes so much more sense imho for texting. It is based on E-Mail. You can either use their e-mail service (requiring only a username) or you can use your existing imap-email account. End-End encryption is handled automatically.
I'm not familiar with EU law, but wouldn't this set a precidence across the whole EU?
Not unless turned into EU law, or a lawsuit over it reaches EU court. Individual countries can't change the rules of the union on their own.
There's already EU court precedence against mandatory backdoors
Is there a supremacy clause like what the US has? Like, if the EU court has a ruling, does a member country get to override that?
The EU in general uses civil law, not common law. Courts in general don't establish precedents, so it does not matter what a court rules beyond that specific case, laws are wrtitten to be super specific, and you generally can't challenge laws in court like in the US.
The EU works through a double process of lawmaking.
It can create directives that are like how US laws work as they need specific interpretation, except it's national legislatures, not courts doing the interpretation.
And there are regulations - like the GDPR - that have to be adapted and enforced verbatim.
This is a cornerstone of the ongoing Big Tech dispute, they thought they can forum shop by buying the Irish judiciary, but they can still get indicted, even for the same violation, in any other EU court if that court also has jurisdiction.
https://commission.europa.eu/...
Each country may still have the equivalent of a constitution, and the majority of EU laws are directives which the country may translate to fit their local law, also there's various negotiated exceptions to EU laws. But the general idea is that the treaties establishing EU are meant to require full cooperation
This law cannot go through! This is a threat to democracy in our country.
Privacy matter. You must be able to talk to your friends without needing to worry about if the government is listening to you. This will not help to catch the bad guys as they will just change to some other protocol. But it opens up the possiblity for third party doing something that they should not even be able to do. Stop this now.
i am searching their link to Sweden
no link found yet, i will search again
.
https://signal.org/
© 2013–2025 Signal, a 501c3 nonprofit.
"Signal", Signal logos, and other trademarks are trademarks or registered trademarks of Signal Technology Foundation in the United States and other countries (more info here).
.
https://signal.org/donate/
Signal Technology Foundation is a nonprofit under section 501c3 of the US Internal Revenue Code.
.
Yeah, but why do they feel forced to? I understand the EU is imposing fines on Meta and Google because they have branches in member states. But Sweden can do to Signal as much as the US could do to The Pirate Bay.
ISP blocking, probably not, but yes ISPs can block Signal by blocking all known Signal servers. That’s why Signal supports special proxies that allow individuals to run to a
The US as of now is not threatening to kill end-to-end encryption.
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(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
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- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
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Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media (incl. Substack). Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com
(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)
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If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
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Is this law broad enough to also catch up Proton and its services?
This attack by governments on encryption is getting more and more concerning.
save