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Pherenike 21 points 2 years ago
Why do you always think it's Russian trolls? Is there really nothing criticizable anymore about this war romance y'all got going for Ukraine? Any critical minds just have to be 'Putin's puppies'? I'm so fucking tired of this simplistic ass Marvel heroes viewpoint.
silverlose 3 points 2 years ago
War romance??? You think people want war? Wtf is wrong with you
PotatoLibre -6 points 2 years ago
Hard to call "critical mind" anyone who compare those two conflicts in such a gross way.
PotatoLibre -7 points 2 years ago
Don't you feel a bit ashame with that childish argument?
Ever heard about nuances? World isn't just white and black. Grow up.
FelixCress -10 points 2 years ago
Why do you always think it's Russian trolls
Can also be Putin's useful idiots. Take your pick.
FelixCress -7 points 2 years ago path: 0 15975013 15977751 15978194 15987289 15987625, hotness: undefined, score: -7, children: 2
BrainInABox 20 points 2 years ago
Well you see, as you increasingly slip into McCarthyist paranoia, your definition of "Russian troll" is going to grow ever more expansive as it approaches "everyone who disagrees with me". As a result, it's going to seem like there's more of them to you
PotatoLibre -12 points 2 years ago
It's also packed with naive commies, it's a palvovian conditioning.
Cowbee 5 points 2 years ago
To be clear, Lemmy is developed and maintained by Communists, there are going to be many Communists on Lemmy in general. Going around and calling Communists McCarthyian terms like "commie" is just stoking rage, I don't see what that fixes.
sleeplessone 4 points 2 years ago path: 0 15975013 15979248 16009804, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
Thekingoflorda 7 points 2 years ago
Love how in the first image you show the best part of the Palestinian people (which I do think is very much in the majority), but then in the second image you show the worst part of the Ukrainian people (which are very much in the minority).
Pherenike 14 points 2 years ago
Whoever doesn't obey USA's commands, USA calls a dictator, and then starts a vilifying campaign to justify intervening and getting rid of him/them. The EU always plays along and certainly Ukraine will not be an exception because it's all business to them (Putin included) and war is the most profitable of all businesses.
Thekingoflorda 0 points 2 years ago
Are you saying I am doing that here? The only thing I said was saying that the image is a little bit weird. Or do you think the majority of ukraine are nazi’s?
Thekingoflorda 1 point 2 years ago
I don’t see a source that claims that anywhere near the majority of Ukrainians are nazi’s. Would you mind pointing me to that source?
lithiumground 5 points 2 months ago
Western double standards
dessalines 5 points 2 years ago
Redditors please consult the chart:
prototype_g2 13 points 2 years ago
hmm... And why would you say supporting Russia and Palestine count has "understanding geopolitics"? I say this as someone who does not know too much about it.
Cowbee 2 points 2 years ago
Both work against US Imperial Hegemony. Palestinian liberation is fully supported as it's a national liberation movement for people subjected to settler-colonial genocide, critical support for Russia is due to it currently working against US dominance, which is the primary obstacle for Humanity to progress economically into a more equitable global system.
dessalines 2 points 2 years ago
Posting to !asklemmygrad@lemmygrad.ml would likely get a lot of good answers.
dessalines 4 points 2 years ago
Cowbee 3 points 2 years ago
If you're describing Marxist-Leninists as being interchangeable with "tankies," and MLs are by far the most common form of Marxist and Socialist world-wide, what's the point in denoting the top-left quadrant as "Socialist/Anarchist?" Moreover, Anarchists are not a monolith, many don't support continuing the war.
I think the original is more generous, anti-war-ism is genuinely a relatively positive way of putting it even if critical support for Russia is deemed to be "fully knowledgeable." The original fully acknowledges the principles of never striking first millitarily as a viewpoint with understandable moral basis, while also suggesting that that isn't the complete picture.
Cowbee 3 points 2 years ago
I don't think you're accurately describing the reasons Russia invaded Ukraine, the material reality points more towards Russia wanting to thoroughly demillitarize Ukraine by any means necessary and certify Ukrainian neutrality with NATO, rather than joining it.
As for standing for Socialism and the liberation of the working class, the majority of Marxists believe that the current largest obstacle in that path globally is the US Empire, and US Hegemony. Russia poses less of a threat to Socialism worldwide than the US by virtue of not having nearly the power of the US. I have no doubt that the Russian Federation would be just as exploitative of the Global South if they were in the same position as the US Empire, but they aren't, and instead their path to further profits relies on dethroning the US. This dethroning of the US is also necessary for Socialists, hence critical support insofar as it appears to be working against the US Empire.
Let's consider the opposite viewpoint, though. What happens if Ukraine, against all odds, succeeds in beating back Russia, maintains millitarization, and joins NATO? Russia further weakens, and becomes folded into subjugation under the US Empire. This likely results in opening up of some of Russia's assets to foreign plundering, strengthens NATO (the US Empire's millitary wing, essentially), and thus also weakens the position of the Global South.
What most Marxists support is a quick end to the war, via peace deals. The US continuing the war in order to shackle Ukraine with massive IMF loans and secure ownership of key resources and minerals stands in the way of that, and wishes to prolong the war so they can carve out as much value out of Ukraine as they can. Increasingly, Ukrainians themselves want the war to end, rather than sacrificing themselves for US profits, even if it means Russian victory. There is no actual path to victory for Ukraine without NATO full-on joining in, causing a catastrophic level of death and destruction.
What should a Socialist side with, in this situation? Where is the path to the best possible outcome, in your opinion?
bane_killgrind 4 points 2 years ago
Violence is always the answer. The questions are simple:
How do we gain a political advantage? How do we gain an economic advantage? How do we gain a social advantage?
Anyone that says violence is not the answer doesn't understand the tools that marginalize them and the people they care about.
silverlose -1 points 2 years ago path: 0 15975314 16009532, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 1
remotelove -4 points 2 years ago path: 0 15975314 15975519, hotness: undefined, score: -4, children: 2
remotelove -4 points 2 years ago path: 0 15975314 15975519 15978153 15981579, hotness: undefined, score: -4, children: 0
eldavi 0 points 2 years ago
the comments and the downvotes would be fascinating if it weren't so clear that they come from a place of deeply ingrained willful ignorance.
even the american liberal media is starting to admit that this is true, yet american liberals clutch onto it for whatever reason and i wish i could understand why.
tory -1 points 2 years ago
Israel has controlled the USG for decades now. We support Israel because they have been intricately and impressively spying on us since at least the 1980s and bought and paid for most of our politicians. It's just that simple, they own our politicians, and therefore: when they do heinous evil, our politicians look away.
Ukraine was invaded by our largest rival on the world stage as a power grab, and NATO decided to help.
The two situations are not comparable in the slightest.
Cowbee 13 points 2 years ago
Other way around, the US supports Israel because it secures the US Empire's interests in the region. Israel does not have nearly the power necessary to control the US, this line of thinking fails to analyze the real standings of the two countries. Presumably unintentionally on your part, the "Israel controls the US" narrative is actually pushed heavily by anti-semites, it perpetuates the notion that Jewish people control the world in a manner that recognizes the genocide of Palestinians. This is why correct analysis is important, as false conclusions aid the fascists. Anti-Zionism is correct, as is Palestinian liberation, but the US is not a victim here but is intentionally perpetuating it.
As for NATO and Ukraine, NATO countries are "helping out" not out of any moral reason, but to make hefty profits off of IMF loans and resource/mineral contracts. Additionally, Russia is not the US Empire's largest rival on the world stage, China is. It's true that Russia goes against the US, but it hasn't been a world power since the dissolution of the USSR, when the reintroduction of Capitalism obliterated Russia's economy.
Soolonkivi -2 points 2 years ago
There will be violence in Ukraine regardless of whether weapons are sent there or not. The second option will make it so there's noone to police the russians. Pretty much like palestinians can't do much about israelis slaughtering them.
Soolonkivi 2 points 2 years ago
I don't know what you're talking about.
Soolonkivi 3 points 2 years ago
No shit Sherlock, then include a source for this info so I can educate myself. Cuz a quick search turned up nothing like this.
Soolonkivi 1 point 2 years ago
So what you meant to say is: "I think
NATO had buit the largest of any European armies there and they were slaughtering the ethnic Russians, nobody was crying about policing them were they?
But I have no sources other than my thoughts to support this view."
Bloomcole 3 points 2 years ago
I'm saying this is not some secret and verifiable fact.
They had 600K and a few100k reserves.
Far more than England, France or whoever.
Also the most tanks and everything else except navy.
Even with all the nATO help and training it didn't go too well so they used the Minsk accords to arm even further.
Merkel admitted this, it is clear they never intended to honor it.
Reports from the OCSE show how they continuously broke the ceasefire.
Just before Russia intervened they reported 100's of bombings.
98% on the ukro site.
Maybe learn to look something up, or don't and keep making snooty remarks bcs you don't want to see the truth.
Reddfugee42 -2 points 2 years ago
Ugh, the crying about NATO armies. "They were about to get too strong to attack, so Russia had to attack before they got completely too strong to attack." Yeah, okay vlad
Reddfugee42 -1 points 2 years ago
Ok, Stalin
TigerAce -3 points 2 months ago
Literally the dumbest meme I've seen in a long time. There's so much wrong woth this I don't even know where to start. If you actually believe this shit, I'm just deeply sorry for how little you know from the world and logic. Shaaaaame
yuki_gassen 3 points 2 months ago
Take ur time, share with the class when ur ready
BrainInABox 16 points 2 years ago
Reporting them for what?
Cowbee 5 points 2 years ago
Reporting for what, exactly? Which part is misinformation, that Palestinians are fighting a national liberation movement against genocide, or that Ukraine has a non-trivial amount of Nazi brigades like Azov?
BoulevardBlvd 1 point 2 years ago
That depends. Name another Nazi brigade. I've literally only ever heard Azov when people call Ukrainians Nazis. Where are the rest? What are there names? One brigade does not a political problem make. So where are the rest of the Nazis? What is their influence in government? What laws are they pushing? What do they control? Where are the Nazis?
Cowbee 4 points 2 years ago
The OUN is a good example, there's Azov, left-wing parties have been banned by the government, there is rising antisemitism, glorification of Stepan Bandera, demonization of the Soviets, and rising Nationalism. Azov is mentioned often because it's one of the loudest and proudest Neo-Nazi elements within Ukraine, but Ukraine itself has had a long-running Nationalist strain that has pulled from Stepan Bandera, who aided in the Holocaust and fought against the Red Army.
FelixCress -2 points 2 years ago path: 0 15974782 15976841 15980295, hotness: undefined, score: -2, children: 0
Rumo161 -4 points a year ago
This is so far from each other and also not helping the people in palestine in their horrible Situation. You are actually harming them by softening their role in this crisis. Its not Israel against Palestrina. Its the Israeligovermentt and Hamas against the people of Israel and Palestine.
silverlose -3 points 2 years ago path: 0 16009505 16010106 16010157, hotness: undefined, score: -3, children: 15
silverlose -6 points 2 years ago
Could you be specific about the two things you are comparing? Should we go back and look at ukraines history of being invaded by Russia?
silverlose -2 points 2 years ago path: 0 16009505 16010106 16010157 16010239 16010270, hotness: undefined, score: -2, children: 1
muntedcrocodile -11 points 2 years ago path: 0 15977694, hotness: undefined, score: -11, children: 1
memes
@lemmy.ml
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Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
go to feed...
memes
@lemmy.ml
57225
14836
4584
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
go to feed...
I feel like you've built two straw-men and conflated them together. I haven't seen anybody arguing either case on the left side of the meme in response to the images depicted (or similar) on the right side of the meme. People wanting to send weapons to Ukraine generally tend to also say it doesn't have a Nazi problem (and may compare Russia with Nazis), and people wanting pacifism in Palestine also don't like weapons and support sent to Israel.
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