What second hand laptop to buy

2 years ago by filister to c/linux

I would like to buy myself a second hand and install Linux on it. I was looking into ThinkPad T14 gen1 or gen2 devices because of their maintainability and repairability. I found one where I live with a Ryzen processor but it has the wrong keyboard. How easy and expensive would it be to swap this with US English? Are there any good alternatives to the ThinkPads? I fancy the X1 but don't like the fact that I cannot change or swap anything on it. The T14 looks very bulky and unattractive but at least can have the RAM upgraded and the battery changed.

I fancy the Framework laptops, but don't want to spend so much on a laptop. Especially the latest 16 inch with Ryzen AI CPUs.

The T14 G1 is at least cheap, like 350€ with the 400 nits low power display and the battery is at 99%. I guess with tlp installed and autocpugfreq I can get 5-6 hours out of it.

0x0 31 points 2 years ago

You answered yourself: ThinkPads. Beware of soldered RAM (and other "improvements) in newer models.

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Nollij 15 points 2 years ago

Thinkpads are extremely well documented. For how to repair/replace parts, you need the HMM. Just Google for "Thinkpad t14 Gen 1 HMM" and you should find the official PDF on their site. That will tell you, step by step, how to replace the keyboard.

As for the part itself, you can again check Lenovo's site for all compatible parts (FRUs) and find the item number and details. While I wouldn't recommend buying directly from them due to cost, this should give you the information needed to find it elsewhere. eBay has tons of Thinkpads being sold for parts, and many of these will be parted out. You should have no issues finding what you're looking for.

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anamethatisnt 10 points 2 years ago

How easy and expensive would it be to swap this with US English?

On the T14 (not T14s) it is easy. See https://support.lenovo.com/...
Seems to be available from ~30USD https://www.amazon.com/...
ifixit has genuine parts for ~75USD https://www.ifixit.com/...

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eugenia 10 points 2 years ago

I got an X280 with 8 GB of RAM a few months ago, works great with Linux. Paid just $175. It even works with Haiku OS! Pic: https://files.mastodon.social/...

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just_another_person 9 points 2 years ago

Look at the Framework Refurb store.

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LeFantome 6 points 2 years ago

Older MacBooks and MacBook Airs (pre-2018 or so) make awesome Linux machines and have really come down in price. If you can find one cheap, I highly recommend them.

Intel machines later than that have T2 chips and are still good but take a bit more research.

M1 Macs are pretty well supported now but that is a different universe.

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marauding_gibberish142 11 points 2 years ago

Older MacBooks still have that darned WiFi card which you need special proprietary drivers for. And basically nothing in that chassis is standard; everything is Apple-specific if you want to repair it. I don't recommend MacBooks

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filister 5 points 2 years ago

Yes, exactly, what attracts me to Framework and ThinkPad is the repairability

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marauding_gibberish142 0 points 2 years ago

Personally, Framework has become a bit too expensive for me. If you're in the US I'd look at the older Dell precision and HP ZBook workstations from 2020 or earlier, they have amazing specs and go for $400 or so. Fairly repairable because enterprises demanded that they be and gobs of power for anything you want.

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Templar238 5 points 2 years ago

I was lucky to work at a college in their computer warehouse. I got steed discounts on hp laptops and desktops. If you can find a good deal on a hp z book those are fantastic and I ran Linux exclusively on the 5 or 6 I purchased. Easy to work on back than I guess it depends on how new you are looking.

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hperrin 5 points 2 years ago

Thinkpads and Framework are top tier. Then there’s the “Linux first brands” like System76 and Tuxedo. All of those will work flawlessly.

Then the “generally work well with Linux” like Acer, Lenovo, and Asus; maybe some HP, LG and Samsung. Then the “probably runs Linux fine, but it’s a weird brand” like Redmi, Chuwi, and Gateway.

Then the “avoid at all costs” like Dell, Apple, Microsoft Surface, a lot of HPs, and anything with a Qualcomm ARM processor.

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Laser 2 points 2 years ago

Then the “avoid at all costs” like Dell

Must have gotten lucky then. Bought a used Dell about one and a half years ago. Everything worked out of the box

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hperrin 2 points 2 years ago

I think some of their business oriented laptops are fine, but every consumer model I’ve owned, I’ve had problems with. I can’t trust them anymore, especially since they marketed an XPS as working with Ubuntu, then later changed their marketing to remove the fingerprint reader, which didn’t actually work with Ubuntu. I bought that machine solely because they promised me it fully worked with Ubuntu.

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Laser 2 points 2 years ago

Okay, that sucks. Yeah, I bought a refurbished business device

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sudoer777 2 points 2 years ago

Nowadays with Apple, the bigger issue is the ARM Linux ecosystem being neglected in terms of support rather than the hardware compatibility (that is for M1/M2). The hardware for the most part works except for USB-HDMI and fingerprint (which didn't work on my HP laptop either).

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muusemuuse 2 points 2 years ago

The Qualcomm stuff is actually coming along, as is Apple. They’re on pace with pretty much any non-raspberry pi SBC.

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shiroininja 4 points 2 years ago

I really like my 2019 thinkpad x1 carbon for coding/light gaming. It runs vms pretty well as well. It cost me $250 a couple years ago used off of eBay.

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FurryMemesAccount 4 points 2 years ago

At framework, only the desktop and the 13 offer Ryzen AI options.

That said, my 16 is plenty powerful enough.

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filister 2 points 2 years ago

True that, and I generally prefer bigger screens. As I said what I don't like is the price.

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CameronDev 3 points 2 years ago

You may want to specify what your needs are. What is this for?

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filister 3 points 2 years ago

For personal use, I will use it just when traveling, as I have a more powerful desktop. Nothing too fancy, a bit of programming, tinkering. Will run probably Hyprland. What's important is to have 5-6 hours of battery life. I will probably run some containers, YouTube watching, browsing, should be portable and support charging over USB-C.

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mbirth 2 points 2 years ago

About the last bit: There are these now. Available for all usual laptop plugs and voltages. Much easier to carry with you than a separate AC brick.

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filister 1 point 2 years ago

Yes, that's why I want to have a USB-C charging. I have a 60W GAN charger.

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mbirth 2 points 2 years ago

Yeah, but if your dream second hand laptop has everything but USB-C charging, you can easily get such adapter and basically make it USB-C charging capable. 😉

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CameronDev 1 point 2 years ago

This is basically the opposite of a thinkpad/framework, but m1 macbook airs are cheapish second hand, plenty of battery life, USBC, lightweight and durable. Definitely not repairable or upgradable though, so if thats important forget it.

Can install Linux (asahi project), but macos is Unix like enough that I found it good enough.

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filister 3 points 2 years ago

I found a good T14 gen 1 with Ryzen CPU and 400 nits low-power display, but I read that the 4650U CPUs don't support amd-pstate and only auto-cpufreq, meaning that it will affect negatively the battery life. The T14 gen 2 are unfortunately with the 300 nits display, which is quite mediocre. How much worse the battery would be on the gen1?

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anamethatisnt 4 points 2 years ago

I can't find any proper tests on the matter but here's someone with the Thinkpad X13 with the same CPU answering the battery question.
https://old.reddit.com/...

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filister 1 point 2 years ago

That's actually better than I thought though. I am also tempted into a 16:10 aspect ratio, but that's only on the third gen which is unfortunate. Thanks for the link.

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Pete90 2 points 2 years ago

T14 Gen 2 with Ryzen here. Great machine, no problems at all.

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doopen 2 points 2 years ago

X13 gen 1 thinkpad with Debian, the touchscreen worked out of the box with no additional config needed

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soundconjurer 2 points 2 years ago

@filister , I got my laptop from Dellrefurbished.com , honestly the best Linux laptop I have ever bought. It was only $200 at the time, I run Fedora on it. I have to admit I love the fact the BIOS updates properly and not too infrequently, sort of giving the feel of being supported if anything alone.

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merde 2 points 2 years ago

but it has the wrong keyboard

you can also either manually reconfigure keys or just choose your habitual keyboard layout and ignore the markings (that's what i do. How often do you look at your keyboard anyway?)

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MyNameIsRichard 4 points 2 years ago

How often do you look at your keyboard anyway?

More than I care to admit!

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filister 3 points 2 years ago

In the night I do look every now and then, plus if I need some special symbol, it is much better if you have it on the keyboard instead of googling

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j4yt33 3 points 2 years ago

I've gone from German layout to UK layout to US, I definitely understand the pain of remembering where which symbol is. Apart from that I have to say, with a bit of practice your brain will adapt pretty quickly, there isn't that much difference between the "standard" layouts anyway

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merde 1 point 2 years ago

except for the french 🤦

KB Azerty Neuville

🤷

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merde 2 points 2 years ago

i don't know why you got downVoted for writing about your preferences 🤷

i have my permanent marker for those "special symbols" i rarely use and never learn :)

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smeg 1 point 2 years ago

I think you can just buy a pack of stickers for your preferred layout for a fiver if you want the low-tech solution!

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JamesBoeing737MAX 1 point 2 years ago

Well, global keyboard has 1 key more, so I wouldn't worry about it.

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nanook 1 point 2 years ago

If you're going to install Linux, Dell and IBM are generally very compatible. I've got a Dell 1500 series that runs Linux beautifully except the battery has given up the ghost and I need to replace it, also going to swap out the hard drive for an ssd. But Mate runs well on it, even the touch screen features work.

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hperrin 1 point 2 years ago

I’ve never had a Dell that didn’t have issues with Linux. The fingerprint reader never works, sometimes the webcam doesn’t work, sometimes the WiFi doesn’t work, and sometimes the ambient light sensor doesn’t work. But, there’s always a problem. After having four different Dells, I finally swore off the brand for good. Never again.

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TabbsTheBat 0 points 2 years ago

Toughbook cf-31

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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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