While at the same time not even using the meme format correctly.
QuazarOmega 1 point 3 years ago
I see this always get commented, but I don't get it, what's the right way to use it?
Siegfried 24 points 3 years ago
In this meme template both the lowest and highest IQ should say the same thing
Edit: just realized, it could be sort of saved changing either gentoo for an arch based distro or arch for a gentoo based distro. This would partially save the symmetry of the template.
QuazarOmega 1 point 3 years ago
Ahh, makes sense, but is it really wrong? To me it's just a different kind of joke
Lightning66 104 points 3 years ago
Honestly what is wrong with 'just works'. If the policies behind the project and the security and privacy is all in place using this option is nothing wrong.
For linux to grow it needs to be more 'just works'. Let the complex stuff and simple stuff be there. It's not one or the other.
agressivelyPassive 37 points 3 years ago
Exactly.
When I was younger, tinkering around was a hobby in itself. But today I actually used my machine and I want it to work without hassle. I don't want to think about swap partition sizes, modeset kernel parameters and that kind of stuff. I want a reliable tool.
That's why so many devs use MacBooks. They're essentially Unix machines with a proper GUI and mostly work absolutely flawlessly.
I've been using MacBooks for over ten years now and had exactly one crash: when the drive was failing so hard, it couldn't even spin up anymore.
FancyFeaster 11 points 3 years ago
This is exactly me. For a server it’s Linux but for everyday use/work a MacBook Pro is great. It just works. It’s great as you can fire up the command line to manage Linux servers easily. That’s how I admin my Lemmy Ansible install.
For gaming I use Windows. It’s all about the best tool for the job.
Prager_U 8 points 3 years ago
You might want to configure it from scratch, with exactly the tools and utilities you want (e.g. networking utility, desktop environment). Or you might just find this process fun and interesting. Some people take issue with how Canonical is run, and decisions they make.
stewie3128 2 points 3 years ago
I think it's funny that so many Linux users talk about how locked down Windows is, when 90% of them live in an effective walled garden defined by their package manager, or other inborn restriction of their distro. I doubt that even 10% are compiling from source with any regularity.
Why do you need to wait for someone to repackage FF for you before you install it? Just go get it if you run Arch BTW, but you know the overwhelming majority of ArchBros really only know how to install it through Pacman.
velioc 5 points 3 years ago
What‘s wrong with installing software from a package manager when the package I need is on there and has a decently up to date version? If its not on there I can still build from source.
When I‘m in a situation where I just need a specific lib or cli tool or whatever and don‘t have time to potentially debug a niche compile error, installing from a package manager is more convenient and saves time.
Except snap, which can burn in hell.
pascal 8 points 3 years ago
Ford definitely doesn't "just works". Try installing a jet engine on the roof then fueling it with unleaded.
I don't want to blame you, but I think sometimes Nvidia really enjoys messing with Linux users.
Ullallulloo 1 point 3 years ago
Regardless of whose fault it is, it's unacceptable that half the people with a discrete GPU have nigh incompatible hardware. It's more akin to using snow tires breaking your car than a jet engine.
Aganim 2 points 3 years ago
Not just that, but ever since F32 every single fricking update managed to either break something completely or made some part of the OS too unstable for daily use. Bluetooth issues, crashing display server, system hanging on suspend, broken bootloader on some Secure Boot sysems (handover from EUFI to bootloader no longer happening) therefore rendering the system completely unable to boot.. Just some issues I ran into when using Fedora as my daily driver for well over a year.
Fedora is great when it works, but always keep in mind that having a bleeding edge system comes at the cost of stability.
Hadriscus 1 point 3 years ago
That was my experience ten years ago : mobile Geforce 660 with "Optimus", two flavours of drivers, of which none worked reliably. I remember fiddling with Nouveau & Bumblebee for hours. I should try another, more stable distro on my desktop, but I rely a lot on some Windows-only programs.
Professor_Piddles 1 point 3 years ago
I keep reading this, but I haven't had any issues at all over the past year with Fedora KDE and proprietary Nvidia drivers installed via flatpak. Is it more of a problem when installed via dnf?
Commiunism 5 points 3 years ago
Just works is definitely something Linux should strive for, but at least in my experience and in experience of my friends, "just works" has always been a poor experience.
What I'm talking about is how you install a just works distro like mint or garuda, and then some package refuses to work or maybe hardware such as a sound card or multi monitor setup, so you gotta go troubleshooting, which isn't very "just works". What's worse is that some of the issues aren't talked about/documented, so you pretty much have to rely on making a post and wait for potentially hours for a response to get help. It's also very hard to troubleshoot the system by yourself if you don't have experience, as you don't really know what's running under the hood as in what came prepackaged by the distro.
PlumberOfDeath 4 points 3 years ago
Complaining that something works or that people prefer things that work is a very backasswards critique and deepens the presumed stereotype that home Linux users are just nerds who only like to tinker (which is just partially true).
ddkman 2 points 3 years ago
To be fair I've been using mint, and whilst THE FUCKING MULTIMONITOR DOESN'T FUCKING WORK (Uhh I wanna punch a drywall)! otherwise it has been suprisingly smooth. Especially since it is my main computer, and I use it to burn discs for older game systems (incl. x360!!!), unity development, and a bunch of other stuff. So I have to say, it is VERY close to it just works.
ddkman 2 points 3 years ago
It works but it kinda forgets the monitor layout, especially if you remove the computer from the dock while the os is sleeping.
It is a pain in the ass to set it up again, especially since it thinks it is a great idea to use the inbuilt monitor, even though the lid is shut.
Also when you undock when suspended sometimes it forgets to check after waking up, and some programs, especially fullscreen video playback has a tendency to continue on a "ghost display"
Overall it is livable but annoying especially because 33% of times it just works.
Also this is xfce. Cinamon and Mate may be much better.
demonsword 4 points 3 years ago
I think by default the debain installer doesn’t have any proprietary code.
WackyTabbacy42069 3 points 3 years ago
From freedom, came elegance
OrnateLuna 42 points 3 years ago
Na the biggest and main reason why Linux doesn't have a higher adoption rate (on desktop) is that it's not preinstalled on the devices you buy.
There are obviously other factors but they are miniscule in comparison
kmkz_ninja 7 points 3 years ago
Most people don't want to have to use a cmd line to use their PC.
Edit: Seriously, why is it such a confusing prospect to linux users that linux is difficult. Literally, every thread on here comparing distros is filled with
"I used debian, but I had to update it every day or my graphics drivers would fail."
"Oh to fix that regularly occuring issue, just type 'cgreg320 -I1I0O xx /*poweruninstall the year your motherboard was manufactured' into the command prompt."
"Oh yeah, Nvidia graphics cards, AMD motherboards, Steam, Chrome, Adobe products, left-handed mice, and the letter F are unsupported on this distro."
Windows is easy. Not great, but easy.
GamingChairModel 3 points 3 years ago
At a certain point, though, you have to wonder whether a traditional desktop linux distro is better for regular users than just preinstalled ChromeOS on a Chromebook.
Jeanschyso 1 point 3 years ago
I revived an old computer using Mint, and it works great, but that's for my brother who just browses and does spreadsheet and writing. I'm a bit more involved with how I use a computer and it is difficult enough to setup a wireless Xbox controller that I am considering automating it for future use and make that public. Note that I know fuck all about how to even begin, and I might give up halfway through, but the point stands that the motivation was triggered by a lack of user friendliness.
zbecker 9 points 3 years ago
path: 0 2649973 2661026 2662706 2663973, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 2
I know people who use linux mint (or other distros that aim at user friendliness) who literally never have to touch the command line. This claim that you need to use the command line was true 5 years ago, but today it is largely false.
I am in a Linux User Group and I am literally the only person who uses a tiling window manager (I use hyprland) instead of DEs like kde, gnome, cinnamon, etc.
SeaJ 0 points 3 years ago
Tried out Pop OS for my laptop which is generally seen as a simpler distro. I had to hit up terminal to attempt fprintd. Getting a fingerprint registered was a pain in the ass. Then when I did get it registered, I could not log back in through the UI. I'll still likely switch to it sometime soom and send the logs to fprintd to eventually fix but it was still frustrating as hell since fingerprint scanners are a pretty basic feature nowadays.
The only issues I've really had with my Linux Mint VM is upgrade issues and my smb mount occasionally failing. Both of those basically required terminal.
Don't get me wrong, Linux is a fuck ton easier than it was 15 years ago when I started testing it out. But there still is a ways to go.
MrBubbles96 1 point 3 years ago
"Seriously, why is it such a confusing prospect to Linux users that Linux is difficult?"
Because honestly? It really isn't. A couple of years ago, maybe it was hard, but now, Linux is easy to pickup and learn; so easy even someone like me who has zero programming/coding skills (not my profession) and still kinda thinks typing stuff into the terminal is basically black magic was able to pick it up and adopt it with very little hiccups and set it up for my ma on a seperate computer with no problems on her end. Unlearning Windows? That's the hard bit, especially if you go into Linux (or even Mac, as was the case with me a long time ago) thinking it's Windows with another skin instead of different beast althogether that has it's own quirks one needs to get used to, just like with anything new (and just how the majority are used to Windows's own quirks). That's where you'll start having a bad time.
dezmd -8 points 3 years ago
Most people don’t want to have to use a cmd line to use their PC.
"I don't want know that car needs oil changes, I just want turn key and go"
"Uh oh, car no start."
/throws car in trash and buys a new one
demonsword 4 points 3 years ago
This is GNU/Linux memes community
superbirra 6 points 3 years ago
but which distro YOU use?
TunaCowboy 5 points 3 years ago
This is parroted all the time, all the while linux is doing just fine.
Why is adoption rate such an important metric?
GamingChairModel 1 point 3 years ago
Serious answer: we need a sizeable installed user base so that the cross-platform developers don't leave us behind. I found this article to be a pretty compelling analysis of how dependent we are on "scraps" from MacOS/Windows versions of web browsers, and how the Mozilla foundation might not prioritize desktop Linux if it runs into financial difficulties. The recent Red Hat controversy also reminds everyone of how dependent Linux as a whole depends on financial backing from deep pocketed corporations.
avidamoeba 5 points 3 years ago
All the parrots doing Ubuntu bashing over the last few years are really hurting adoption in my opinion. It still is the best Linux OS for new users for many reasons, even if there are many other ones that might be better suited for other uses or preferences.
WeirdGoesPro 7 points 3 years ago
Riddle me this—I’ve used Windows, MacOS, Debian, Fedora, and Ubuntu to host a Plex server over the last 12ish years, and Ubuntu has been the most stable, hands down. Currently I’ve got a bunch of VM’s on ProxMox, but Plex still hums away on an Ubuntu Server LTS VM without a hitch.
I have plenty of reasons to chose other distros for specific needs, but when I want something to just work and be easy on me, Ubuntu is the right choice, and it is definitely a solid place for anyone to start getting into the Linux way of life.
avidamoeba 2 points 3 years ago
No riddle really. The last time I checked, Ubuntu was the most used server Linux OS. Just like RHEL, it's tested for and used in the enterprise, but unlike RHEL, everyone gets the same copy, including you and me. It follows that it should be solid. A big part of that comes from Debian of course, but there's additional testing and patching in Ubuntu. It's no wonder it just works.
const_void 51 points 3 years ago
How is Gentoo keeping it simple?
agressivelyPassive 9 points 3 years ago
Simple is unfortunately the negation for complicated and complex, which are slightly different things. Ubuntu is not complicated, but complex. Gentoo is complicated, but not as complex (at least it can be).
vixven_random 0 points 3 years ago
lol aren't complicated and complex synonyms (as adjective)?
agressivelyPassive 4 points 3 years ago
No, there's a pretty important difference.
imapuppetlookaway 46 points 3 years ago
As a Mint user: What do those symbols even mean? (or: "Distro? What's a distro?")
jrbaconcheese 16 points 3 years ago
Wooooooosh
Transcriptionist 35 points 3 years ago
Image Transcription:
A bell curve featuring numerous wojaks and Linux distribution system icons by IQ score. From left to right they are: At the left 0.1% end of the bell curve with no IQ score labels is a boomlet wojak accompanied by Ubuntu icon and the text: WHERE START BUTTON? Between 0.1% and 14% on the left side of the bell curve, encompassing the IQ scores 55 and 70 is an NPC wojak accompanied by the Arch icon and the text: I USE ARCH BTW Between 14% on the left side of the bell curve and approximately 34% on the right side of the bell curve, encompassing the IQ scores 85, 100, and 115 is a crying Zoomer wojak accompanied by the Fedora icon and the text: JUST WORKS Between 34% and 0.1% on the right side of the bell curve, encompassing the IQ scores 130 and 145 is a big brain wojak accompanied by the Gentoo icon and the text: K.I.S.S At the right 0.1% end of the bell curve is a light brown hood wojak accompanied by the Debian icon and the text: NO TIME FOR DISTROWARS
[I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜]
Meowoem 30 points 3 years ago
Quick attack users of the most popular distro before normal people start using Linux! We can't allow a good, stable and perfectly usable distro to get popular, we need to bully everyone back to windows or terrible things might happen like the year of they Linux desktop!!
VinesNFluff 7 points 3 years ago
Quick Attack? Like the pokeymun move?
Ilflish 28 points 3 years ago
I use Linux Mint because I like Mint Ice Cream
I use Parrot in honour of my parrot Loba
I use Ubuntu Mate because I've always wanted one
I use Peppermint because it's my favourite flavor of gum
I use Rocky Linux because he's my favourite American Hero
I use fedora because I know it will come back in style
TechieDamien 11 points 3 years ago
Apart from your favourite distro of course!
gravity 23 points 3 years ago
This was me, except I went straight from Ubuntu to Debian. At some point I wondered why I was doing all this manual maintenance. I realized that Ubuntu relies on Debian and so I switched. Haven’t looked back.
rambaroo 5 points 3 years ago
My last Ubuntu install would break my shit all the time. Debian is so much more reliable it's incredible. Haven't had to mess with anything in almost two years on my debian install whereas Ubuntu required constant maintenance.
It's a shame Ubuntu's so popular because Canonical seems to be absolutely awful at testing their package updates compared to any other common desktop distro. I've had far fewer issues with Debian, Fedora and SUSE
Haui 2 points 3 years ago
Interesting. I‘ve installed ubuntu server on my homeserver and added a couple of services like two years ago. I‘m constantly improving stuff and so far, nothing went wrong. I also had a couple ubuntu servers at work, no issues like ever.
I also installed ubuntu desktop recently and it’s a little buggy (my fault as I didn’t use the lts version I suppose).
stewie3128 2 points 3 years ago
Real Chads don't use a DE.
PeterPoopshit 1 point 3 years ago
It's a lot harder to get Nvidia drivers working on Debian than any other distro I've tried including Arch. Every issue besides that one I've ever had in Debian, I was able to fix.
PeterPoopshit 1 point 3 years ago
I'm about to get a chance to try it on a different pc (M5A am3 with a Titan X), but on a x79 motherboard and a 1080ti, that doesn't work. After installing that, I do get the Nvidia x server but when I open the program, it's an empty window and something is obviously broken. I installed Arch on the same pc and it was even easier to get Nvidia drivers working than on Ubuntu.
Intralexical 6 points 3 years ago
Nix is great. But I don't think I'd want to use it for a desktop OS base.
(Disk space/cycle life potential, binary cache misses, broken packages, and complete incompatibility with everything else. User error, TBH, but also stuff that's not really a problem with other systems. Well worth it as a package manager, though.)
yiliu 5 points 3 years ago
I've been using it on various desktops, as a PM but mostly the full OS for 6 years or so. I would hate to switch back.
Disk space is an issue... I've seen the OS take as much as 100 GB. But in a world of 2TB SSDs for $100, is that a big deal?
I don't see why NixOS would be any worse for the lifetime of a disk than other distros.
I've only hit binary cache missed for packages I created, or where I changed build options. IOW: a binary cache miss means Debian wasn't gonna have it anyway. And on the flip side: you can change package build options! Neat!
Broken packages are, if anything, less of a problem with Debian. Debian has lots of packages that are...not broken, but incomplete, requiring lots of manual config or whatever. NixOS is way better at that stuff.
User error? Yeah, fair. I'm a programmer by trade, but I can definitely see how it'd be a bit much if I weren't.
But oh man...you should've seen how trivial it was to switch from PulseAudio to PipeWire (including Jack support etc), leaving no trace that Pulse was ever installed... Or switching from X to Wayland, on a system that I've been doing rolling updates on since 2017, all with a clear conscience... It's beautiful.
Intralexical 1 point 3 years ago
Disk space is an issue… I’ve seen the OS take as much as 100 GB. But in a world of 2TB SSDs for $100, is that a big deal?
Yes? Storage used for the OS is space not used for projects, entertainment, docs, redundancy, snapshots, avoiding fragmentation (EXT4), etc. Money spent on SSDs is money not spent on going out, food, meeting people, basic needs, other hardware, etc.
I don’t see why NixOS would be any worse for the lifetime of a disk than other distros.
Untested, but I'd assume high space use combined with high update frequency, plus occasional builds-from-source and multiple simultaneous package versions, means more disk writes.
Biased, maybe, because manual GC means you see disk use tick up more than in other package managers, and also because I personally repeatedly rebuilt a custom gigabyte-sized Derivation dozens/hundreds of times. But I think it's a reasonable point of caution.
I’ve only hit binary cache missed for packages I created, or where I changed build options.
Broken packages are, if anything, less of a problem [than] with Debian. Debian has lots of packages that are…not broken, but incomplete, requiring lots of manual config or whatever.
Maybe this is a NixPkgs vs NixOS thing. Also, using Nix mostly to supplement packages I hadn't already installed through my distro probably meant I hit more fringe areas. But I've even encountered cache misses and failed builds for some pretty big Python libraries on certain commits.
Debian-based out-of-the-box functionality for stuff is indeed also Not Great, IIRC— Stable, but yeah, sometimes maybe a bit "incomplete". Actually, Arch-based has worked well IME.
And on the flip side: you can change package build options! Neat!
But oh man…you should’ve seen how trivial it was to switch from PulseAudio to PipeWire (including Jack support etc), leaving no trace that Pulse was ever installed… Or switching from X to Wayland, on a system that I’ve been doing rolling updates on since 2017, all with a clear conscience… It’s beautiful.
Yeah. I personally don't care about that stuff unless it directly impacts something I'm working on.
And that's why I say Nix is a great tool for package management, but not something I'd personally want to use as an OS base. When you're already elbow-deep in the plumbing anyway, Nix makes it way easier to swap components out. But when you just want to install and use an application, editing Nix configs feels like more work, and it's so much easier to just pacman/yum/apt-get install firefox or whatever and get on with your day.
Plus, some specific red flags surrounding stability and interoperability:
ALSA is apparently hardcoded to just straight-up not work with a Nix root. Not sure how NixOS handles it, but in my specific use case, I had to
symlinkJoin{paths=[alsa-lib alsa-plugins]}so they could find each other. Pretty sure it took a lot ofstrace -f -e trace=fileandnix-locatefor me to figure this one out, just to get sound working.QtWebEngine/Chromium has to be run through some kind ofsed -e "whatever.so"to "Patch library paths in Chromium sources" in order to even run, because it's also hardcoded to just not work with a Nix root. IIRC, this one I figured out by just straight-upgrepping on the compiled binaries after seeing the errors instraceor whereever. Seems a bit ridiculous, using a RegEx to patch a web browser when installing it so it can even run.Binaries aren't safe either, because they probably need
patchelfto be able to run on Nix.Qtgenerally takes a ton of extra steps to be able to run on Nix. And have you actually ever opened the wrapper the Nix hooks generate to see what it's actually doing? For one of my applications just now, you get a43kbBash script with apparently 581 assignments to just a handful of QT and XDG-related environment variables.OpenGL doesn't look safe either. Nix handles the drivers its own way, so to get OpenGL for Nix packages to work on other systems, you have to jump through some hoops. I assume the same amount of work in the opposite direction would be needed to use EG proprietary or statically compiled graphics applications on NixOS too.
Running precompiled binaries on Nix looks… Involved, as well. Sure, there's tools to automate it. But that only hides the complexity, and adding an opaque dependency sorta defeats the entire purpose of configurability and composability IMO.
I'm sure most of these problems are "solved", in the sense that NixOS implements workarounds that are the default when you install the affected derivations, and there are wrappers written for most other cases. But all of that adds maintenance, fragility, and complexity. It remarkably works well enough for userspace, but stuff like this still feels a bit house-of-cards-y for the basic OS and desktop. It's not Nix's fault, but so much of the work that goes into Nix seems to be just to force software that was never designed for it to run on it. Ultimately, the Linux FHS has momentum and adoption. Nix's technical design might be compelling, but so are interoperability, stability, and simplicity.
The NixOS enthusiasts are doing a lot of technically interesting work, but I personally find the results of that work most useful outside the NixOS ecosystem. And I do think Nix as a package manager is really great. Ever since I've installed it, I've basically incorporated it as a major component or tool in every sizable software project I've since started. But I just personally wouldn't want to base an entire OS on it.
SubArcticTundra 3 points 3 years ago
Are you saying that having a Debian base system but exclusively installing with nix is the way to go?
Intralexical 6 points 3 years ago
I'm saying that's a way I might personally consider going if I were to set up a new computer. Rock solid base that you can still get normal packages and binaries to run on without much hassle if needed, plus Nix with more up-to-date packages that you can customize however you find most useful.
Personally I have a mix of rolling/regular repos, AUR, Nix, Flatpak, and static binaries. They all have their uses, TBH.
mailerdaemon 20 points 3 years ago
I've been a Linux user since installing Slackware from floppy discs. These days I run Mint on my desktop/laptop and Ubuntu on servers. Does this make me weak?
SubArcticTundra 18 points 3 years ago
Installing Slackware from floppies makes you a badass
superduperenigma 7 points 3 years ago
These days I run Mint on my desktop/laptop and Ubuntu on servers. Does this make me weak?
It makes you a king because you use what's best for you.
doubletwist 1 point 3 years ago
I started similarly with Yggdrasil, but quickly moved to Slackware, downloading floppy images on a 2400bps modem.
These days I use Xubuntu on my desktops/laptops and Debian on my servers.
While back in the day I (to quote Weird Al) "beta tested every operating system, gave props to some, and others, I dissed 'em", I just haven't got time to deal with all that any more.
mailerdaemon 1 point 3 years ago
I was actually a Xubuntu user for a long time, but tried Mint with Cinnamon, and found lots of things much easier and more polished, while maintaining the lightweight feel that XFCE provided.
GreenMario 19 points 3 years ago
Distro swapping is a rite of passage. The grass is always greener. Until you settle and stopped caring about the OS at all. Which is why I went back to Windows (7 at the time) mainly for gaming compatibility.
Proton got me hnnng tho I'll definitely be giving either Endeavor or OpenSuse a go when I build my next computer. Rolling distro sounds like a "set it and forget it" thing and I like that.
Fernando-678 9 points 3 years ago
Installing a new distro feels so good to me, makes me happy. I love messing with the settings and stuff, trying a new desktop environment messing with the native apps. Man I love it.
I'm using OpenSuse's Gecko with rolling release. It's beautiful.
GreenMario 2 points 3 years ago
That "new distro smell" 😊
Fernando-678 2 points 3 years ago
New distro smell hahah exactly, that's perfect.
GreenMario 3 points 3 years ago
Been trying out EndeavourOS in a VM for a bit. Might be my next home if I don't fall back to good Ol Reliable Debian.
CorrodedCranium 3 points 3 years ago
I'd say EndeavorOS is the way to go. So far I haven't had nearly as many issues as I had with Manjaro
okfuskee 3 points 3 years ago
Garuda linux. I'm running the dragonized gaming distro and have fallen in love with it. A buddy turned me on to it a few months back and it's perfect. Runs all my steam games through proton like a champ.
Loudambiance 1 point 3 years ago
I got everything working great in Fedora with Proton, even my nvidia drivers. Then, a buddy had an idea that we all get and play MWII, which can not run in proton, now I'm back to windows
GreenMario 2 points 3 years ago
This is where keeping a pocket Windows dual boot is handy. Probably kept just big enough for two games tops.
agent_flounder 1 point 3 years ago
Check Nobara. Fedora based, tweaked specifically for gaming.
uniqueid198x 4 points 3 years ago
I did xfce for a long time and really enjoyed it. Then I did some hopping to try out tiling, and found paperwm. For me, its just a much better experiance for the way I work
LinusWorks4Mo 4 points 3 years ago
x11 vs Wayland?
Fernando-678 2 points 3 years ago
XFCE was my DE of choice for a long time, it's very practical.
SimonSaysStuff 15 points 3 years ago
I think I'm stupid as I don't get this at all. I've never used a distro that doesn't work. They all work. Some are more advanced, some are more stable, some are more polished, some even look and behave like Windows, but fundamentally they are work.
uniqueid198x 4 points 3 years ago
Depending on the situation, you could maybe partially adopt. My team at work uses the package manager on macos
finickydesert 3 points 3 years ago
Wait am I missing something? What did canonical do this time?
batmaniam 1 point 3 years ago
Usual sentiment of "the best distro is the one that works for you". I can just say that I found Ubuntu to do a confusing "splitting the difference". It requires more knowledge than using, say, windows, but also tries to hand hold. I put in a lot of time with Raspbian, and now Debian on a desktop, and I like it better because there's less "in-between".
I'd kind of stumble through windows, sort of getting what was going on but mostly having faith and a hands off approach to what was going on underneath the hood. I didn't really understand or learn much other than keyword recognition and a passing concept of broad principles. Rasbian and then Debian forced and encouraged me to get under the hood more, so when I was troubleshooting I was at least learning why things weren't working. When I had display issues, it wasn't "I clicked the wrong box" it was "because of my SSD my kernel has a race condition with the video driver and x". Not that I would, but I get now how you can slim down an OS for a specific hardware platform if you really wanted. Having done a ton of microcontroller stuff where I was getting different chips and whatnot talking to each other succesfully, this was a HUGE missing piece. "Real computers" aren't a black box mystery to me anymore, even if I'd suck at proper computer engineering.
Ubuntu kind of over optimized so I didn't learn, but was being asked to do more under the hood anyway. I kept looking at it as adjusting settings the way I did with windows, even though it was asking more of me in terms of understanding to troubleshoot.
But again, that's me and my experience, and more so it's based off of how I personally learn. I'm still not overly familiar with Ubuntu, but I get now that there's no reason you can't do what I described above, it just never "clicked" for me.
Arn_Thor 1 point 3 years ago
The way you describe Ubuntu as asking you to do more under the hood, and you seeing it as adjusting settings, really rings true to me. Often I find myself frustrated at having to jump through so many hoops to do simple stuff. I like learning to use Linux but sometimes I just don’t have the time for it
mailerdaemon 4 points 3 years ago
I find that installing things from repos you typically get something far more up to date with Ubuntu than Debian.
Arn_Thor 2 points 3 years ago
When I decided to set up my own server my only Linux experience was experimenting with regular Ubuntu. So Ubuntu server was the closest thing to it, and I figured I would have to re-learn fewer commands. It’s also been my impression that because a lot of inexperienced folks like me start with Ubuntu, that’s where the most beginner-friendly instructions are likely to be. I didn’t really know what Debian was.
SaladevX 2 points 3 years ago
Some corporations are switching from Redhat-based (CentOS/Alma/Rocky) to Ubuntu because it offers a professional level of support in the event that support is needed.
Personally, I prefer Debian for servers and Arch for desktop.
Ullallulloo 1 point 3 years ago
Doesn't AlmaLinux offer professional support?
sneaky_b45tard 14 points 3 years ago
I don't know why people hate Fedora so much and at this point I'm too afraid to ask.
Espi 21 points 3 years ago
I haven't seen anyone hate Fedora until this meme.
Now, Red Hat, which has strong ties to Fedora, is doing a lot of stupid bullshit. I actually moved to Debian due to that, not really because I think its superior (at the end of the day, all distros can do the same stuff) but because I'm getting tired with corporations
TheFerrango 2 points 3 years ago
I really hope they don’t screw up Fedora, the last thing I want is to change distro again and go back to Arch.
CorrodedCranium 8 points 3 years ago
I enjoy Fedora and have used it for years but it can occasionally be harder to find packages and tutorials compared to other distros. That and DNF being quite slow.
That's all I can really think of.
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S 2 points 3 years ago
Yes
snekerpimp 33 points 3 years ago
If it works for you, you shouldn’t
snekerpimp 1 point 3 years ago
If it’s not broken… though if you don’t try something new every now and then, what’s the point
tdawg 8 points 3 years ago
Yea that makes sense. I've been curious about Arch given how many resources there are for learning it. Weirdly enough I know two people who have tried it, one said it was the easiest setup they've ever done and the other said it bricked their laptop.
FiskFisk33 5 points 3 years ago
unless you want to go the hard way at least once just for the learning experience
GreenMario 6 points 3 years ago
Don't. It's good.
I've been more of a Kubuntu guy in the past tho.
Chobbes 3 points 3 years ago
Most distros really aren’t too different fundamentally, so if you’re happy where you are there isn’t much reason to switch. It can be fun to swap just to see what’s different (and learn what differences are really just skin deep), but you don’t have to. Some distros have more big ideas behind them which can be interesting (like nixos) but mostly they all feel pretty similar.
Falmarri 1 point 3 years ago
Because you're arbitrarily restricting yourself to old versions of tools and software. The idea is you don't want unexpected conflicts to bring down your system. But, what that means is when you do go to upgrade on something like a server, you would test the whole thing on the new version, and then migrate. That's not how people use desktops. You just feel like one day upgrading from 20.04 to 20.10, and then get a massive burst of differences. It's really hard to pin down what specifically goes wrong when something does.
So unless you have a staging environment for your desktop where you test the new version before migrating, then what is the purpose of running old versions of stuff?
PushSurname 10 points 3 years ago
As a mint user, I can confirm that I still don't know where the start button is.
daFRAKKINpope 10 points 3 years ago
I like Ubuntu.
ShranTheWaterPoloFan 9 points 3 years ago
I had a girlfriend who used Debian back around 2005.
Never have I been around an OS that didn't work as often as Debian. It wouldn't crash, but need to be updated or something every hour. It was a full time job keeping it running for her.
BackOnMyBS 19 points 3 years ago
man, i wish i would ever have a girlfriend that even knows what Linux is.
ShranTheWaterPoloFan 1 point 3 years ago
Every hour was obviously hyperbole. It would break often. Normally due to some issue that would pop up, most often drivers.
She did run on unstable and had a fetch for updates automated every evening. Her goal wasn't a stable OS, but to be at the forefront of testing. She knew no programming, so it meant that she would report bugs and have a box with a giant fan that didn't run anything most of the time. She made bad choices.
I'm sure stable Debian is stable. I'm sure it's gotten better in the past 15 years, but the fact my experience with Debian was an unstable mess that was more of a job than a useable system makes me suspicious of the distro.
chellomere 3 points 3 years ago
If you run testing or unstable there will be updates available very very often. But, you choose when to update, you don't need to update anytime an update is available.
You should know what you're doing and expect this if you're running it. Otherwise, you should use stable. With stable, you'll typically just have security updates until you choose to update to the next stable, which typically is released every other year.
stewie3128 1 point 3 years ago
Me too! Well, technically Yellow Dog Linux, but that lasted all of two weeks.
circuitfarmer 9 points 3 years ago
Red Hat making memes now?
nomadjoanne 8 points 3 years ago
Lol. Arch for desktop, Debian for servers is where it's at, IMO.
qyron 8 points 3 years ago
I still love Debian to bits and pieces but I can't convince me to use it as a daily driver again. And I used it as such for nearly a decade.
My main issue is the software being dated. Yes, there are backports, and with flatpak support we can circumvent that even better but... no.
qyron 1 point 3 years ago
Debian by itself is not very user friendly; running Sid, at least from my personal experience can be very... interesting.
I'm not that very tech savvy, although I can set up, install and manage my systems.
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S 8 points 3 years ago
+1 for Debian here, but I'm on KDE.
richardisaguy 8 points 3 years ago
What about opensuse
thedeadwalking4242 7 points 3 years ago
Nixos: chewing on arch documentation in the corner
etchinghillside 7 points 3 years ago
Remind me what the two on the right are.
DukeMcAwesome 8 points 3 years ago
4th is Gentoo. 5th is Debian's logo inverted, so I'm not sure if that's supposed to be Debian or a derivative that I don't know off hand because there are so many.
pg_jglr 1 point 3 years ago
Gentoo and Debian, https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/...
Aggravationstation 6 points 3 years ago
Pretty accurate. Heard someone describe Debian as "boring Arch" the other days and it's pretty accurate. Whilst the base system is still fairly useable it's still pretty bare bones and it seems like most Debian users will tweak it slightly to their liking and just stick with it. Been me for the past few years
Dschingis_Pelikan 6 points 3 years ago
I'm on Ubuntu. A week ago I had to look up how to use a python script. I wouldn't even hide porn that much.
RoyaltyInTraining 5 points 3 years ago
I spend more and more time after each new fedora install to get it perfect. There are so many small tweaks i gotta do that I might just learn NixOS
finestnothing 6 points 3 years ago path: 0 2641952 2645229, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
hiramfromthechi 4 points 3 years ago
Serious question: For those wanting to run Linux, and not having experience in the command line, which distro would you recommend? Gotta be as user-friendly as possible.
Draconic_NEO 9 points 3 years ago
*installs as a snap instead*
ccdfa 2 points 3 years ago
Precisely. And for me, the snap package doesn't work well. It doesn't follow cursor themes and there are issues involved with closing tabs. Installing via the Mozilla ppa fixes this, but it shouldn't have to be that way. New users, especially ones with a fear of the console, should stay away from Ubuntu for reasons like these.
cirkuitbreaker 4 points 3 years ago
Mint or Solus.
Solus was specifically designed to be for normal people and for you to have to use the terminal as infrequently as possible. However, the software selection is more limited than in other distros.
havokdj 2 points 3 years ago
I have a bit of a hard time recommending solus because they have been back and forth on development for the past couple of years. It is a project with great potential, but it needs to be actively maintained.
c0mbatbag3l 2 points 3 years ago
I've never had a easier time going from bootable to functional than using Nobara, even Mint gave me more hassle creating a functional bootable than Nobara.
It's based on Fedora Linux so if you were gonna go that route I'd say give Nobara a try.
Beowulf 2 points 3 years ago
Ubuntu Cinnamon is what'd I recommend more if you're starting out and want to play video games. Lutris dropped support for Linux Mint because both parties were a bit too stubborn on making the appropriate changes that would work for everyone (iirc, LM packaged drivers differently and Lutris wanted it a bit more standard to work efficiently. And immovable object had met an unstoppable force)
CosmicCleric 2 points 3 years ago
Fedora/KDE
stewie3128 1 point 3 years ago
Zorin.
Heavybell -3 points 3 years ago
I would seriously recommend you use gentoo for a bit. It is not user friendly, you use the command line constantly, the install process is mostly manual. But nothing teaches you the fundamentals like using it.
Now, personally I did this on a second PC as a home server hobby. Dunno if I'd recommend it for a novice wanting a desktop experience.
c0mbatbag3l 3 points 3 years ago
"Hey I need this to be user friendly and simple."
"Use not insert user friendly distro so you can get better even though you're probably one of the 99% of humanity that doesn't need their computer for more than dicking around on a web browser and couldn't give less of a fuck about OS's and computers."
This is why no one wants to use fucking Linux.
metaStatic 4 points 3 years ago
Pop!_OS because a tiling window manager is nice but I can turn it off too
Elephantpurple7603 4 points 3 years ago
Debian me to
CookieJarObserver 3 points 3 years ago path: 0 2661363, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
Dashmaybe 3 points 3 years ago
I haven't tried using arch since I was 12, and even after all these years the experience makes me feel like such a poser, I didn't even manage to compile the kernel, and gave up before I had anything resembling an OS.
Dashmaybe 0 points 3 years ago
This was over 20 years ago, so I don't know and/or remember, point is I had no idea what I was doing, possibly just trying to build a window manager or something then? All I remember is only having a CLI and feeling like I couldn't get anything to work.
cjf 1 point 3 years ago
These days the arch live image comes with an install script, archinstall, that does a pretty good job at making sure arch is installed and set up enough to get you in, including installing a nice DE of your choice. No compiling needed :)
FinancesDrone98 3 points 3 years ago
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Lefteros 2 points 3 years ago
To be frank, i distro hop'ed for like 3 months, tried a lot of things, i've got an amd 3900 and rx 590.. 'till now it's the only one everything worked fine, i also got 2 screens with different dpi and resolutions, latest gnome with custom nobara patches is the only one that properly worked with fractional scaling with wayland. It's my main OS for personal use and work, and i'm not gonna change it anytime soon. Flatpaks, snaps everything works as expected! Before that i used PopOS or 1,5y, also nice OS but i had to fix everything by hand. I'm kinda tired of doing it each time i have to upgrade to milestone version or something similar. 😑
LoveSausage 2 points 3 years ago
I use debian based distro. Level of over 9000
Fernando-678 2 points 3 years ago
You used CentOS as a desktop? That's Gentoo level of commitment.
lootgoblin42 1 point 3 years ago
redHat is dead to me.
TheInsane42 2 points 3 years ago
Debian user here... Just works and has been working since '95 here. After Slackware 1.3 and Redhat (non EL) 4.2 I was fed up with reinstalls for major upgrades, so I switched to Debian. It just works, most of the times. (for the first time in decades I had to revert a kernel to the previous version, that what you get running testing ;) )
Am I a guru, I doubt it but I don't care, I'm lazy enough to stick with what I know, but not to lazy to dive into new things. (but not until I absolutely have to)
VinesNFluff 1 point 3 years ago
I used Debian on my other computer and it made me happy. But not having access to the AUR was too annoying so I never switched away from EOS on my main computer. Not everything can be verified on the repo, flatpaks and their weird compartimentalized sandbox are confusing to me, and sometimes I don't wanna build shit from source.
Standenboy 1 point 3 years ago
I find gentoo to give a very debian like experience in alot of ways, although I suppose it does use a lot of time which is what this is on about.
I only use gentoo on my laptop (where I never leave the tty) so it's not as big a deal, with the largest package being gcc.
Overall based meme.
nathris 5 points 3 years ago
Ubuntu deviates from accepted standards too often (Mir, Upstart, Snap) thanks to Canonicals ham fisted attempts to redefine Linux.
Arch has a tendency to break due to the maintainers commitment to staying true to upstream. Too often you end up on the Arch wiki looking up how to solve small issues that should have been in the original PKGBUILD
Gentoo, not everyone wants to compile everything from source
Debian's commitment to FOSS results in frequent incompatibilities (both SW and HW) out of the box.
Fedora is the perfect middle ground. It implements the latest technology standards as soon as they are stable (eg, Wayland, Btrfs by default), stays fairly close and true to upstream while maintaining package stability, and overall just works with a large variety of lackages
Fedora is for people who use Linux as a tool rather than a hobby.
PeterPoopshit 2 points 3 years ago
Should I use Fedora for a home server? I like stuff not breaking randomly after updates which makes Gentoo and Arch kind of a meh choice. Debian is so committed to foss that it's harder to get drivers working/a lot less stuff works out of the box. On a new enough laptop with all it's weird chipset drivers, it's harder to get Debian working than Arch in my experience. I've never successfully got Nvidia drivers working on Debian for example.
Normally home servers run bog standard older hardware so using Debian isn't a problem but I want to install an Nvidia card for ai stuff.
stewie3128 1 point 3 years ago
If you Emerge, Gentoo would at very least tell you before you install something that it'll break as a result of dependency issues with a list of said dependencies, and offer to update those dependencies for you.
Portage really is an incredible package manager.
PeterPoopshit 1 point 3 years ago
I got screwed one time really hard with emerge. I didn't update for a long time and it was messed up enough that I couldn't install anything due to python issues and I also couldn't update due to python issues and there were circular dependencies. Experienced people on the Gentoo discord tried and failed to help me get that fixed without an os reinstall but all efforts were ultimately unsuccessful.
This was on a slow as molasses Athlon XP so reinstalling Gentoo was completely out of the question. Since Gentoo was basically the only thing that would run on that cpu, I got a different motherboard from ebay instead.
nathris 1 point 3 years ago
If Debian works on your hardware and you just want something that works and doesn't give you issues then yes its a good choice. It will just work happily in the background for years.
Fedora Server is a great choice if its something you want to continuously tinker with. Each release averages a little over 1 year of support so you'll want to do a dist upgrade after each new version comes out.
I'm currently considering switching to it on a couple of production servers I manage because they rely on PostGIS. EL9 and Debian rely on the official postgres repositories rather than shipping their own .deb/rpms and the official postgres repository's GIS packages are so unreliable I think it would be more stable on Arch. With Fedora server however I can just install postgres and postgis from the official community repo.
lambalicious 1 point 3 years ago
Fedora is for people who use Linux as a tool rather than a hobby.
Last I heard, this mere tool now no longer supports various video codecs lol. Something something "patents", which get in the way of using something as a tool.
finickydesert 1 point 3 years ago
Here I am with Manjaro.... I guess I'm with Ubuntu here; I'm ok with that
Beowulf 1 point 3 years ago
Fedora with AUR would be ideal for me. I've had too many random issues running Ubuntu and ubuntu-based OSs and while I like the simplicity of Debian, its too... little? for what I'm looking for. Arch and arch-based works great, but most are KDE and I would need to make a lot of changes out of the box before I can start using it (the default pdf viewer for KDE is nicer that Evince (the pdf viewer packaged with most gnome DEs) but I can't print off some pages in e-books whereas Evince allows that)
Fedora server be Ballin tho
Anticorp 6 points 3 years ago
What do you mean "most are KDE"? Arch doesn't even include a DE when you install it. If you don't install one during install, then you're greeted by a terminal when you reboot. I've been using Gnome on Arch for 2 years without issue.
proletar_ian 0 points 3 years ago
Heh I went straight from Fedora to Debian. I'm 7 months late to this meme in true Debian fashion.
DennisMFaucher 1 point 3 years ago
Now you made me look up Artix. Which is 81 in the top 100 in Distrowatch. Oh, it's a fork of Manjaro/Arch. I liked Manjaro on my ARM Laptop. Most software I use is easier to install from .deb or .rpm though so I tend to stick to Debian-based. https://distrowatch.com/...
H2207 3 points 3 years ago
Artix is a fork of Arch that uses different initialization systems such as Open-RC instead of SystemD. Artix exists because people believe that SystemD is bloated, which it arguably is. And that SystemD doesn't respect the Unix philosophy.
DennisMFaucher 2 points 3 years ago
Yeah, I grew up with SystemV init in AT&T System V in the 80s and variants. The needed to learn systemd which I now understand.
H2207 1 point 3 years ago
Increased memory usage, increased CPU usage, it might get in the way if you're trying to set something up too. General consequences of 'bloat'.
The only benefit you'll really notice with other systems is much faster boot time, the memory is only like 30MB maybe.
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