Makes me suspicious. The media machine never says the full (and rarely says incomplete) truth to the general public. The powers that be have their own channels for communicating the actual picture, without us proles knowing

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yogthos 38 points 3 years ago

I think the context here is that there are rifts forming in US government now. There is the neocon camp that wants to keep escalating, and there's the realist camp who say that this has gone as far as it can go. The realists are putting this stuff out so they can point to it later when the war is shown to be a debacle and use it for political leverage against the neocons.

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ihaveibs 16 points 3 years ago

I think the neocon camp is the war with China camp

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yogthos 29 points 3 years ago

Oh yeah, that's always been the end game for them.

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ProbablyKaffe 11 points 3 years ago

Blinken, Sullivan, and Nuland are 100% card carrying neocons. The Neocons who crafted the Iraq invasion are in the Democrat camp now.

Both the Realists and Neocons are anti-China. The Realists are the ones that took down the USSR and think the Neocons are blowing it.

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ksynwa 11 points 3 years ago

It has also become a partisan wedge issue between democrats and republicans. Democrats are less likely criticise their participation because they are getting to enjoy their own righteous crusade. Then a sect of republicans has the chance to call them out.

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yang_wenli 11 points 3 years ago

Perhaps a bit individualist of me, but I do feel there are many that have turned this into a pet project. Especially Biden and Blinken, their careers now live or die by at least stretching the conflict and maintaining its intensity.

They have no choice, to backdown now would be to admit to the warhawk faction they are totally incapable. It'll be Afghanistan pullout 2.0 but 10x politically devastating. The Republicans would riot.

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yogthos 23 points 3 years ago

I definitely agree, a lot of prominent politicians in the west have effectively staked their political careers on the success of the war. This makes it impossible for them to look for any sort of compromise. The concerning part here is that it could easily lead to NATO boots on the ground, and we're already seeing article being published calling for that. That would basically mean WW3.

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yang_wenli 8 points 3 years ago

The future is bleak. I definetly see the pathway to formal NATO intervention, but that would destroy any ability make the eastern pivot.

The escalation is far from over, with f16s and God knows what else on the way, but it seems the US is trying to pivot while maintaining face, and thus soft power. I expect the conflict will eventually be "frozen", atleast until Russian stockpiles are ready for a proper offensive.

Unfortunately I am more concerned about the political consequences of doing such. WWIII may happen or not, but it's almost a certainty that facist and facist adjacent types will benefit greatly in the coming elections.

Le Pen is basically a shoe in at this point, Macron has so thoroughly burned through electoral trust. Of course Meloni already won, and undoubtedly will be strengthened. Trump is very likely to return to the Whitehouse, and how he handles the situation is unclear. It'll be interesting to see how the Torries fair in a general since Labour isn't doing too well either. AFD is still on the rise, even in South America many bourgeois are reacting to the economic fallout by couping soc dems like Castillo. Freaking we might see another Fujimori facist leading Peru again.

It feels like the 1930s all over again. Facist rise as liberals dogmatically enforce the very capitalism that creates facism. Whether WWIII arrives from facism, I am not sure.

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