cross-posted from: https://infosec.pub/post/46445602
Is this still going to happen? What can we do?
Note that you can also get the Fairphone with iodeOS installed, which may be preferred as e/OS's launcher is closer to iOS in appearance while iodeOS looks more like stock Android. Based on personal taste for that I think, but I would prefer iodeOS.
I got e/OS and just installed a different launcher, but I think it's great that there are more options for Fairphone.
My google android device runs GrapheneOS, with which you can use sandboxed google play services. Yes, the google play services API will likely block nonconforming apps from functioning if they use play services, but apps don't have to use play services, and you'll still be able to install anything you want. As far as I'm concerned, any app that stops working when google pulls the plug in September will be replaced with a FOSS alternative.
Can you use the desktop site through the phone browser on a Linux phone or grapheneos?
Use websites instead of banking apps. You bank doesn't have a website? Fukem, change bank
You're right, and I'll add that my current banking app was recently updated, and now no longer works, giving me nonsecure OS warning, which is comically ironic.
With respect to companies requiring apps to do things like pay rent, that is a double-edged sword. They can demand, but their goods and services generally have alternatives, and companies that take a hard line risk alienating their customers, pushing them to look elsewhere.
I've already swapped to GrapheneOS and refuse to use anything from the Play store. Don't even have it installed.
Most of the apps I was already using day to day have GitHub repos with apks and Obtanium auto updates for me.
Yeah losing banking apps sucks, but oh well? I don't see the big loss there. I'll just use the desktop site and anything else I'll just go to my bank physically.
I'd rather deal with the inconvenience at this point.
Time to switch to a local credit union.
My bank(s) have their own 2FA apps which are used for the web as well.
Same apps are used to identify myself and digital signatures for taxes, credit, health care etc.
The worst of all is that a private company owns one of these 2FA apps and can in theory deny you service.
The EU should be rolling out their own later this year (or next). But for now, I need an up-to-date Android/iPhone not to make life more complicated than it has to be.
No whatsapp? I used it on waydroid with no google services installed
Yes, gave your tried recently? Wathsapp Is banning users Just because they use it on lineage os without google apps... Not common, but it's happening.
I was lineage os maintainer and still follow a few forums. And this topic is recurrent in the last months.
I am on Lineage with no gapps, I do have microg though, but not logged in. And have been for a couple years. No problems with Whatsapp so far, and banking apps too for that matter.
Is "no google services" the issue here? I still have waydroid but with google play at the moment
Whatsapp web is so unbearably slow i might just use waydroid lol, thanks for reminding
EDIT: it is fast but it is using %50 of a core at all times🤷♂️ Aaand now it is calmly sitting in the background, no cpu usage
People need to start working on hacks to freeze or patch Google Play Services ASAP. (Is that even possible, or is it protected at such a low level that it can't be replaced/modified without rooting? If so, GrapheneOS or other AOSP-based alternate ROMs without Play services would be our only hope.)
The cat-and-mouse game that will start once this is rolled out is only a temporary solution; legislation and making google roll back this decision is the only long-term solution. That, and real Linux phones running something other than Android.
I read on the keepandroidopen github that the "advanced flow" (for "side-loading") is delivered through Google Play Services, not the Android OS, meaning Google can modify, restrict, or remove it at any time without an OS update and without any user consent.
So, yes, I think you're right, GrapheneOS, PostmarketOS, /e/OS and the likes would be safe (for now) since they don't have the "Google Play Services". I read MicroG is a way to get core functionalities of the Play Services API.
For Linux phone, the Jolla phone has peeked my interest. But I would be missing Android apps, unless there is virtualization to run those??
I see. Valve's Android virtualisation is called "Lepton" and it's a fork of Waydroid.
I wonder where they're going with this. I know Valve is a game platform. From that I suspect that they will use Lepton to bypass the Google Play ecosystem and have their own Android Lepton Play store.
But wouldn't it just be Android games on Linux, and not other apps?
I used to multi-boot a rooted android with whatever rom caught my fancy. Kali (pwnpad I think it was called) was a thing for a while. You know, when Android was fun and you could do such things. I wonder how viable that is these days.
While I'm not going to say its over, it sure looks like Google is about to make it a whole lot harder for people to escape their influence.
And the worst part of this is it would seem even the most "privacy conscious" governments are on Google's side.
Because locking everything down and removing our privacy is good for the children... Just never mind the rich pedophile cabal that almost nothing was done about other than slapping the wrists a few very high profile scapegoats.
That is the thing iOS is better default but its FOSS apps are low, and I understand why 100 bucks a year thing. I whish iOS would allow 3rd party stores like really allow them not the bullshit they are doing in the EU,
But, wouldn't we (or you) miss the Android apps? Interesting though if we could make that happen.
I think our best chance to have less influence from Google would be legislation from the EU. (Government of France 🇫🇷 is based: they're going Linux).
I dont know about all the Linux for phone. But I do know couple of them let you run Android apps. I think Valve might even be working on something for the Steam Frame. Which I assume could be ported to the phones.
And yeah I would miss apps. But Ill only be dicked around so much.
Let's be honest it already isn't mine
I've been getting into some games on itch.io.
Allll of those .apk files are going to turn into garbage in 100 days.
Its like the death of flash all over again.
And here there's a list of regulators to which you can complain: https://keepandroidopen.org/cta/#consumers
I keep hearing this and I'm going to be honest this take sounds like hyperbole. All I see is it requires developers to send in identifying credentials. How does one turn into the other? Can someone explain that without catastrophizing?
Like, I'm with you, I just don't like bad arguments.
To add to what the other reply said, developer verification comes with the implication that Google reserves the right to refuse verification. There are also legitimate reasons a developer might not even want to attempt to verify with Google to begin with. Admittedly, the vast majority of Android users probably don't use software from outside the Google Play Store, but it's a right they've always had and one Google is about to make much harder to exercise or discover, hence a loss of true device ownership for everyone.
If you've only ever lived in ecosystems that only permit software installs via first-party means (think Apple or game consoles), this may not sound alarming. To those of us used to the software situation on PC, where you can freely run any software as long as it exists, this feels like a major hit to software freedom.
most apps won't work.
You need to do everyone a favor and stop spreading this nonsense. It's absolutely false. Every app I've installed on my phone works fine, including banking apps. I use cards to make payments instead of NFC. That's literally it.
I'm tired of people painting ROMs and Linux as if you have to step into the stone age if you want to use them, as if it's a massive inconvenience.
If having to use cards to pay is enough of an inconvenience for people to rather lick Google's boot... I don't even know what to say.
Most apps do work though on ROMs.
People saying this believe you should be able to do whatever you like with the things you purchase without additional conditions. If that's not the case, in some sense, you don't own it.
It's possible that it doesn't matter to you. Apple is incredibly popular and tight controls on what you can do are their entire business model so clearly it's a model that works for companies.
But to the people that do care, they tend to care a lot. It's infuriating. They've been supporting, evangelizing, even developing the android ecosystem and this feels like a rug pull.
Right. It's on Google controlled Androids only. The issue is that the whole ecosystem gets damaged because it's drawing a line between a controlled and a free phone. Google accepts a less valuable ecosystem for more control over the devices and apps that remain.
I am using a couple of android devices that are rooted and pretty well de-googled. I am using F-droid and other repos and pretty much sticking with open source. Will this change hit any of the FOSS stuff? I understand we can still install those apk's as per usual.
Honestly, seeing how Linux has been exploding in growth thanks to the steam deck and copilot, I don't see how this doesn't do anything other than bring about a sort of streisand effect. Normies are gonna stick with their normie shit. They don't want to learn anything different. They likely are already giving up data and privacy. I hate to be this guy but.... fuck em?
It's always been an arms race. To one degree or another. And the so it continues. Just keep fighting.
It's the "Google Play Services" that will obligate the developers to identify with their national ID and pay a fee. Many developers already announced they will stop updating their FOSS apps, and others have warned that their app might stop working because they do not agree to Google's terms.
So, if Google Play Services is sandboxed or not installed on your device, you're device is safe from Google's mayhem.
(I chuckled at your "always been an ARMs race" 😂)
Heyooo I missed my own pun :)
I'll take a laugh wherever I can when everything sucks this hard.
Nothing can be done, it's over. And if it's not over now it'll be in a few years.
What kind of placid, bootlickicking bullshit is this?
What function does your comment actually serve, beyond throwing a bucket of ice water on the idea of not taking things lying down?
If you find spirit, you can complain to your competent authorities in your region: https://keepandroidopen.org/cta/#consumers
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It is still happening. Although not as bad as it initially appeared.
What can we do? Use GrapheneOS and contact your representatives. That's pretty much it. But good luck, your reps are likely trying to actively promote locking down the OS.
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