It's also the first question I ask a recruiter. If they evade the question, that's the end of that.
YoureHotCupCake 4 points 5 months ago
Oh its a competitive salary... with minimum wage.
corsicanguppy 3 points 5 months ago
the listing explicitly excludes the states with those laws requiring [equal rights]
That's a bit telling, then.
corsicanguppy 11 points 5 months ago
If it's not listed in my region, we have an email address we report the ad to and it gets removed and/or repeat offenders get fined.
Unlisted rates favour one group over another and are against our equal rights laws.
Loce 9 points 5 months ago
Would an employer consider my application without my cv? Why the fuck should I waste my time for a potential employer to lowball me down the road, weeks after an initial interview? If they're not listing it, it's shit. They know it, we know it...
HeyJoe 3 points 5 months ago
It's all about what they can get away with. They want to hold all the power again, the more they get away with the more they know they have a hold over you. Doesnt just stop there, benefits and perks are either gone or non existent these days as well. You should just be happy you have a job is what they want everyone to think.
LovableSidekick 4 points 5 months ago
Makes sense to me. I wouldn't put something in my Amazon cart if the price weren't listed.
DrBob 2 points 5 months ago
I'm on the hiring side. We have a salary band based on classification and a hiring range inside the band. Below the mid-point of the range is reserved for development of internal personnel. Succession planning, stretch opportunities, that kind of thing. For external candidates we look at 60-80% of the band depending on qualifications and experience. We look at things like advanced degrees and leadership positions for national bodies, publications etc. 70% is the sweet spot for meeting education and experience requirements without any of the extras. We rarely hire over 85% because it doesn't leave any room for growth. We know they'll be looking within a year. That having been said I was hired once at 100% if the range - but I was taking a 15% salary cut to be close to a romantic partner.
kryptonianCodeMonkey 6 points 5 months ago
Cut the corporate babble when talking to normal people. It's not impressive. It's unnecessarily vague and really cringe.
Just say "we post the entire salary range for a job category. Most outside hires end up in the upper half of the range, scaled up from there with more experience and skills. But we generally pay them under the top of the range so we have room to trickle out small pay raises to keep them on the hook, lest they know they're worth more but we won't pay them more and start looking for someone so will. We pay our current employees the lowest in that range so we can hold up a carrot to make them do more for modest promotions or merit raises."
DrBob 3 points 5 months ago
It's not corporate babble friend. It's the way we talk, and it's the actual ranges we work with.
The original post I responded to said they wanted an actual figure and not +/- 15%. I'm just trying to explain where the range comes from and how it works rather than being vague. If you don't find it helpful, down vote it and move on. I am not trying to impress you and literally don't care about imaginary internet points.
kryptonianCodeMonkey 0 points 5 months ago
It's not corporate babble friend. It's the way we talk
"Succession planning", "stretch opportunities"... nobody outside of a corporate office says that shit.
The specialized language you speak in a corporate workplace, including the cliches and buzzwords... that's called Corporate Babble, my guy. I work in a corporate office as an engineer. I hear it all day every day, get it in regular emails, etc. It is weird vague bullshit.
If the purpose is to be more precise and clear in language, that's a complete failure, my guy. It would be like me telling you about how I've been refactoring my script to left shift and atomize metric computation, adding unit tests for both the happy path as well as several edge cases and deploying someone's working branch to do integration testing of their new feature before approving their Pull Request, or use technical terms like Kafka schemas, MQ topics, JSON serialization, etc. This is how I talk at work every day, too. But I don't spout jargon at people online when trying to be clear to them.
corsicanguppy 5 points 5 months ago
- that's a lot of justification
- if you don't list that range, it's not cool
- I hope your base no-skills salary is at least 1/4 the rental of a 2bd apt within 10 min walk of the site to which all employees must commute. If not, you need to be asked to explain yourself.
- I hope "fear they'll leave for something else" is how you say "we get that our work environment is bad so people will leave without pay rise promises"
DrBob 1 point 5 months ago
The full range is what it is. It's outside of my control. The internal rule is 8% raise for an internal hire so that's where most of the low range is. External hires will mostly be around the 70% mark. We advertise the full range. We need to for in-scope positions, and do the same for out-of-scope positions for consistency. We are the best paying employer in our area of fly-overville. A starting salary fwith us can still buy the median home here.
msfroh 2 points 5 months ago
Thank you for the informative post that explains how hiring into salary ranges works. Sorry that other posters seem to be rudely taking out their frustrations with corporations on you. Don't shoot the messenger.
kryptonianCodeMonkey 9 points 5 months ago
If it's not listed, there is a reason. And it is never a good reason.
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go to feed...
I'm not Gen Z and I wouldn't either. Red flag right there.
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