dessalines 30 points 3 months ago

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osanna 12 points 3 months ago

Sigh. (Not at you, dessalines). The USA is a fucking disgrace.

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Bloomcole 8 points 3 months ago

Another Dessalines list to save.
Thank you for your always valuable contributions.

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Zerush 25 points 3 months ago

Capitalism moral is an oximoron

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manuallybreathing 24 points 3 months ago

Okay sure, but what about all those poor germans killed in the 1940s? And have you accounted for all the children they would have potentially had, but never had the chance? In actual fact every persons reproductive capacity far exceeds what a regular person could acheive under normal conditions, the sperm and egg count should also be included

And what about the people killed for being communists, have you accounted for them?

Yeh i didn't think so, adjust your graph, 666 quint-gorjillion, checkmate, I am very smart, 3D chess

this message is brought to you by the national endowment for democracy

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Bloomcole 13 points 3 months ago

This is unironically any interaction with some Fins or Balts here.

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AccoSpoot1 18 points 3 months ago

The slave trade alone, jayzus...

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bountygiver 13 points 3 months ago

Easy to have moral high ground when you can just blame all the deaths for their "laziness"

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Amnesigenic 8 points 3 months ago

Yeah, capitalism sucks

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5ha99y 12 points 3 months ago

Capitalism is dominant and longer used than Communism. The total amount of deaths is naturally higher. It doesn't tell anything about the actual amount of deaths communism could have, if it is active in the same capacity and amount of time, this plot would be more interesting.

And just to make things clear, I am not taking a position for any of the two. I just think this argument is not representative.

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Kynsey 16 points 3 months ago

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queermunist 18 points 3 months ago

They'll ignore this and just claim that the deaths were covered up.

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Kynsey 9 points 3 months ago

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Godric -20 points 3 months ago

0 Covid Deaths in North Korea, and your response is to laugh at people for not trusting the numbers??? Alright then buddy.

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Cowbee 15 points 3 months ago

Do you think it's particularly difficult to shut off all incoming traffic in the DPRK?

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Amnesigenic 4 points 3 months ago

Sounds about right, thanks to the US they've been quarantining for decades lol covid was a walk in the fucking park

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Egriaga 2 points 3 months ago

Fair point, but capitalism is broad and includes actions done in the 1600s by groups such as the East India Company. While communism is a small group of 20th/21st century countries

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IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet -2 points 3 months ago

You can't have opinions like that. You have to choose sides. /S

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charlieBox -20 points 3 months ago

Are we counting the deaths from the the famine caused by the Chinese Great Leap Forward lead by the communist party?

Communism sounds good but it depends on who leading to make good decisions. I would not want a communist system under Donald Trump

In communism the whole makes the individual. In capitalism the individual makes the whole

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Cowbee 14 points 3 months ago

This is a bit silly. The famine in China was largely a result of natural disasters, the communists ended famine in a region that had them historically. Further, socialist systems are comprehensively democratic, and cannot be led by a single person unilaterally. Even with party leaders and whatnot, socialist governance is collective.

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charlieBox -12 points 3 months ago

Are there any examples of democratic communism?

They both have one function and that is to spread resources best. Capitalism let the free market decide how much something is worth. Your labor is decided by how much someone will pay and you decide what you want to eat for dinner with the free market and decide what livestock or plants get planted in the following year based on what people will buy.

Communism relies on a central planner. Someone that could be hundreds of miles away from you. You think they will know what resources you need? What if that person was Donald Trump deciding for you?

Btw, communism and socialism are was more protective. So low immigration, less tolerance.

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Cowbee 20 points 3 months ago

All socialist systems thus far have been democratic.

Regarding capitalism, you're referring to an idyllic, fantasy version of capitalism. In the real world, capitalists already control the means of production and distribution, so workers sell the only commodity they can: their labor-power. Since the capitalists hold all of the cards, the price of labor-power is pressed downward towards the customary social price of reproduction, ie as little as possible to prevent revolt while still taking up a full day of labor most days a week to survive.

As for socialism, central planning involves local planning as well. The idea of a single planner hand-planning an entire economy is a farce designed to strawman socialism. In reality, economic planning is already heavily employed in businesses like Amazon, who predict demand and plan production accordingly. Central planning isn't some pie in the sky idea, it worked in the USSR very well, and continues to work in socialist countries today.

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charlieBox -7 points 3 months ago

The three communist/socialist countries I know is China, Vietnam and North Korea and the general public do NOT elect their president. They do vote for local representatives but don’t vote for president. It’s like voting for a city board member who then vote for city mayor who then votes for state governor who then gets to vote for president.

Labor is not the workers only commodity. Workers in USA own land, they own 401ks, they have private businesses that employ others. Which btw, you only lease land from the government in China. You do not own land. Also, China only saw prosperity after adopting capitalist style business models.

Who are the capitalist you’re talking about? Everyone in USA is a capitalist when we go grocery shopping or buy a new car. We the people decide market price.

Explain Moa, explain Kim Jung un.

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1Malayali 1 point 3 months ago

I would not want a communist system under Donald Trump

But Trump is openly a Capitalist?
If current Trump could lead such a system, would that be a communist systne? Or would it remain as a communist system?

In communism the whole makes the individual. In capitalism the individual makes the whole

Wouldn't Communism have both, since it has dialectics?

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Cowbee 8 points 3 months ago

Socialism/communism are systems, not individuals. Technically you could have, say, Cuba with Trump as president. It would be farcical, but one person alone is not the system.

As for communism having dialectics, that's not the right conception of dialectics. Dialectical materialism is the world outlook of communists, not a feature of socialist/communist systems.

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1Malayali 4 points 3 months ago

Technically you could have, say, Cuba with Trump as president. It would be farcical, but one person alone is not the system.

If Trump, as he is now, becomes president of the system, then that means that the system is likely in great crisis or decay.

As for communism having dialectics, that's not the right conception of dialectics. Dialectical materialism is the world outlook of communists, not a feature of socialist/communist systems.

Well, if dialectical materialism is used to reach communism, it will still be taught to handle other issues and maintain communism, right?

Would it be less needed after class contradictions are resolved? But there maybe other contradictions remaining, right?

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Cowbee 5 points 3 months ago

Regarding Trump over Cuba, yes, it would indeed be a great crisis. He wouldn't get elected in the first place.

As for dialectical materialism, it's universally applicable. It's used for science, historical analysis, etc. Even after the class struggle is resolved, there will still be contradictions, as all motion and development is caused by contradiction.

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Egriaga -26 points 3 months ago

I mean both are bad

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dessalines 19 points 3 months ago

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Cowbee 18 points 3 months ago

Communism is good, and necessary.

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Egriaga -17 points 3 months ago

Both communism and capitalism led to famine. I.e the great leap forward

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Cowbee 21 points 3 months ago

Communism led to the elimination of famine in areas where famine was historically common.

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Egriaga -12 points 3 months ago

Oh like the genocidal holodomor

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QinShiHuangsShlong 18 points 3 months ago

The famine during the great leap forward wasn't due to communism though? It was due to China being a backward country thanks to the century of humiliation (caused by capitalism) leading to lacking the necessary technical knowledge (there's a reason it was the last famine China ever had).

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Egriaga -11 points 3 months ago

It was a rapid industrialization attempt by the CPC

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