Some Democrats, especially Democratic leadership, yes. But not all Democrats. There are many people within the party celebrating the democratic socialists who won
They punch left to defend the right
2 months ago by SaltyAmerican to c/latestagecapitalism
darthelmet 17 points 2 months ago
In this context, "Democrats" could be understood to mean the DNC, party leadership, and their favored corporate politicians. Obviously the people electing the democratic socialists aren't the ones opposing the democratic socialists, but we're talking about the people who have enough resources and connections to screw with us, and do, despite them saying that the party is progressive, a big tent, and that we should always support the candidates regardless of how much they align with us.
"Not all dems" is about as useful to the conversation as "not all cops" or "not all men" is to their respective discussions. Technically correct by a very literal interpretation of those words, but completely missing and/or obscuring, the point.
SaltyAmerican -7 points 2 months ago
Those 'some democrats' need to get off the fence and abandon that party
Archangel1313 13 points 2 months ago
Yes! Quit while you're winning! So smart!
Dionysus 18 points 2 months ago
I'm not sure but I think they're talking about the center right leadership we have, Schumer and Jefferies cunts need to piss off and just join the GOP.
That's at least how I took it, or how I want to take it.
Archangel1313 8 points 2 months ago
Nah. He's one of those types that still think the only way to get Socialists elected to office, is if they run 3rd party...despite the fact that more Socialists are beating centrist incumbents all the time.
I swear the whole concept is a psy-op intended to prevent leftists from voting, and therefore prevent them from ever holding actual power.
SaltyAmerican 13 points 2 months ago
You call what Democrats are doing 'winning?'
Archangel1313 -1 points 2 months ago path: 0 24514631 24514818 24515840 24521766 24524677, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 4
grinning_serpent -1 points 2 months ago path: 0 24514631 24514818 24565760, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 0
Phantaloons 29 points 2 months ago
There's another name for Democrats and Republicans.
"coworkers"
EntheoNaut 7 points 2 months ago
“The Empire”
is the other name. Same coin.
LightDelaBlue 24 points 2 months ago
democrats are more mad agasinst NY mayor than trump. or any republican. like ... wtf?
AngryCommieKender 16 points 2 months ago
He's got 80% popularity in NYC. Actually winning over swing voters by doing something, is apparently anathema to the DNC.
immutable 4 points 2 months ago
They asked very highly paid political consultants that assured them that Clintonian third way triangulation had worked once in the 90s so the smart and responsible thing to do was keep playing that playbook.
Sure it failed a couple dozen times since then.
I imagine the Democratic Party to be made up of effectively three groups.
- People that aren’t nearly as smart as they think they are that are certain they’ve crunched the numbers and have the only winning strategy, surprise, it’s move to the right.
- A bunch of old farts convinced the only thing you need to win is money and getting that money, no matter the cost in who you are beholden to, is worth it
- A lot of voters that correctly identify that it’s a two party system and they have to vote for one of them but then incorrectly think that the party is good or at all gives a shit about them.
I was in group 3 for a while and I think it’s the most difficult part of the whole fucking mess. There are two facts that are both true at the same time and the fact they are both true is mind boggling
- The shitty American electoral system means we can only have two major political parties. The republicans have gone mask off fascist while the democrats at least pretend to be less fascist. They are the better of two incredibly shitty options
- the democrats being the marginally better option of two shitty options doesn’t begin to make them particularly good and definitely doesn’t make them at all effective at achieving any of the goals I would agree with.
So we get stuck in this weird quagmire where I would agree with some of the policy goals of the Democratic Party, but I also know they will never go after those goals. When push comes to shove, even if they have the power to, they will always backseat the goals I care about and somehow find a way to deeper entrench the moneyed powers (see the ACA for a great example of offering a good policy goal like ending pre-existing conditional denial but coupling it with entrenching for profit healthcare, for profit health insurance, and failing to actually solve the massive host of other problems with American healthcare)
If you find yourself in group 3 you have accepted theres no other option but to vote for the democrats (a position I take on Election Day too) and you think “these leftists are spoiled brats, look at all the good things the Dems are trying to do”
If you are post-group 3, you find yourself somewhere where I am. I realize the electoral system forces my vote to go to the Dems or make it easier for the republicans to consolidate power. But I know the Democratic Party is effectively an organ of capital, there to do the bidding of capital while putting out tweets and letters about all the nice things they wish they could do but gee golly shucks they just couldn’t find a way to make it happen. Change is hard, I mean not if we are talking about something the donors want, but something the people want, yea, that’s really tricky.
It’s why they have to fight against the DSA, because if a group of politicians can show voters that you can elect someone to do your bidding instead of the bidding of the mega donors, their whole position as useful organ to capital is threatened. And that’s where group 2 gets their bread buttered.
grinning_serpent 2 points 2 months ago path: 0 24518391 24526124 24551049 24565733, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
marxismtomorrow 8 points 2 months ago
We'd literally be communist overnight if just 51% of politicians supported progressive ideals as much as they support killing brown children.
Viking_Hippie 21 points 2 months ago
The worst part is that, even though it says "right now", this has been true for decades.
They never pause punching left. At best, they sometimes conspire less publicly for a while before launching the next public "red panic".
LuminousLuddite 20 points 2 months ago path: 0 24524868, hotness: undefined, score: 20, children: 0
WorldsDumbestMan 16 points 2 months ago
When I said this before, that they are all part of the same team, I got mocked SO hard....
...
goferking0 7 points 2 months ago
Sadly there are large swaths of people who refuse to admit the dems are anything but good or on the left.
And on parts of lemmy this speech (pointing out how the dems have failed and continue to fail Americans) will get you called right wing or a tankie.
symmetreehouse 5 points 2 months ago
Republicans are the sword of the ruling class. Democrats are the shield.
Mulligrubs 15 points 2 months ago
Democrats, like Republicans, have always been perfectly fine with genocide. (recall, you don't even have to kill anybody for 'genocide' card to be played per UN definition).
Recall that we formed Israel after WW2 for a reason, knowing exactly what would happen. bOtH pArTiEs fully support Israel for strategic and/or religious reasons.
Does that mean all registered Ds & Rs agree? Not at all. But the leadership's track record is undeniable.
RememberTheApollo_ 13 points 2 months ago
They punch left to keep their positions secure and not let anyone make them look ineffective as they are.
radiofreebc 11 points 2 months ago
Bernie losing the primary in 2016 showed me all i needed to see about what the DNC is all about. Trump didn't win in 2016, Hillary lost.
Cowbee 3 points 2 months ago
I believe a similar rug pull will happen with this latest wave of social democrats, which will in turn radicalize more people into revolutionary politics. Those who burn their hands on a hot stove seldom make the same mistake.
BeardededSquidward 2 points 2 months ago
And dropped the entire visage of being able to negotiate with them. They're liars and cheaters just like the Republicans.
grinning_serpent 1 point 2 months ago
It showed you that a neoliberal political machine prefers candidates that aren't gonna rock the boat? Was that somehow surprising?
But yeah Hilldawg's campaign strategy consisted of "I show up and am handed a crown."
TheStaffmaster 8 points 2 months ago
This reminds me of the First Rule of the Internet, in a way.
For those Unaware, the First Rule of the Internet is as follows:
"All the "Men" are Boys, All the "Women" are Men, and all the "little girls" are F.B.I. Agents"
In our case it goes:
"All the "Conservatives" are fascists, All the "liberals" are Conservative, and all the "Commies" are just people with common sense.
wakko 6 points 2 months ago
And yet, how often have so many of y'all screamed "don't say both sides because both sides aren't fascists".
Yes, both sides. Both sides are Nazis. One side is just smart enough not to say the quiet parts in front of the press and the other side keeps letting Stephen Miller onto Fox News.
Until Democratic voters accept their own complicity in allowing the Pelosis to profit off insider trading for decades, y'all will continue to get duped by the same populist playbooks that the maga crowd fell for.
Schmucks.
Alcoholicorn 5 points 2 months ago
Pelosi and co aren't populists, they literally think it's virtuous to stand up to their voting base and not be bullied into doing what the masses want.
wakko -2 points 2 months ago
And yet those same masses keep re-electing them against their own interests...
Do feel free to explain why people keep saying yes to being exploited by people who are literally growing old and dying in office after spending their entire careers fucking over the next five generations of Americans.
Alcoholicorn 2 points 2 months ago
Because the msm tells them better things aren't possible. The average Biden or Hillary primary voter doesn't think free healthcare is bad, but that an imaginary moderate republican won't vote for a candidate who supports them, but will vote for a moderate, and therefore moderates are more "electable" than candidates with policy that improves peoples material conditions.
Even here on lemmy we get libs talking about triangulation; the notion that voters vote for whoever is ideologically closest so the most electable candidate is one iota to the left of the republican, and the least electable republican is the most extreme right.
wakko 0 points 2 months ago
Because the msm tells them better things aren’t possible.
Choosing to listen to propaganda while ignoring your own senses is not exactly a valid justification for all of the bluster I see about how libs are somehow better than MAGA. Same gullible populists cherry-picking which talking points to follow instead of just following the empirical evidence.
And yet, all around us we see the puffery of "we're better and smarter than MAGA" followed by the shock and horror of watching party insiders defending the exploitative hand that has fed them so well for so long.
Schmucks.
cupcakezealot 5 points 2 months ago
whatever you do don't google project 2029
kreskin 3 points 2 months ago
The website looks promising on first read, but digging into the founder, Cherny:
"as well as an alum of the corporate-funded Democratic Leadership Council, which was maybe best known for its enthusiasm for privatizing Social Security. Cherny first showed up on Clinton’s radar as a Harvard senior, when he wrote that the United States needed “government humble enough not to try to solve all our problems for us but strong enough to give us the tools to solve our problems for ourselves.” Clinton loved the line so much, he made his entire Cabinet read it, put it in one of his speeches, and hired Cherny as a speechwriter. He was a perfect fit for an administration that had embarked on its own Democratic version of Trump’s DOGE initiative, called “Reinventing Government,” which boasted of firing three hundred fifty-one thousand federal workers and eliminating hundreds of thousands of pages of rules and regulations."
And of course, Chernys previous company was investigated for many instances of fraud and his cofounder put in prison. He sounds swell. So its just another shell game pretending to be progressive. Also, very conspicuously taking no stand on Israel, the biggest issue that lost the centrists base voters in the last vote. Just an issue that doesnt exist to them evidently. Heres a Jacobin article on it https://archive.ph/WVrTc#selection-881.366-905.132
adhdsergio 3 points 2 months ago
Hate to say it, but Trump was right about them, they are dumbocrats; how else would they lose against donald duck? Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory
SaltyAmerican 5 points 2 months ago
Lose implies they put up a fight. They talk resist while colluding with them
adhdsergio 1 point 2 months ago
:'(
grinning_serpent 1 point 2 months ago
Well Harris lost because Biden and the establishment made her fight with her arms tied. Remember how popular Walz was in social media for a couple weeks, then he fucking vanished? He was popular because he was saying stuff that the establishment didn't like hearing.
adhdsergio 2 points 2 months ago
Freedom of speech but no freedom after speech
Themosthighstrange 1 point 2 months ago
This is why votinging in your democratic primary is so important, we can change status quo in the party
grinning_serpent 1 point 2 months ago
Voting in every election. Your city councilors and state legislature critters have far more direct impact on your life than Washington does, and it's a way for candidates to get practical experience before going for a federal position. Hell, run for office yourself! We're seeing constant proof that intelligence and education aren't requirements to be elected, so people telling themselves they don't have what it takes are lying to themselves.
Tollana1234567 0 points 2 months ago
you see schumers, jefferies, booker, slotkin are all pro-israel. alot of them are in safe seats they are unlikely to be ousted. i think hakeems district he runs unopposed as of currently.
Mulligrubs 8 points 2 months ago
They won't get out of the way, trust
BillCheddar -5 points 2 months ago path: 0 24533387, hotness: undefined, score: -5, children: 4
SaltyAmerican 3 points 2 months ago
We are better than republicans and democrats, unlike liberals, who are republican
BillCheddar -6 points 2 months ago
That's nice. You're still every bit the propagandizing, lying bastards that the Republicans are. You're not better than anyone.
almost_genocide 4 points 2 months ago
BillCheddar thinks the Democratic party should be chasing after the bigot and sexist vote instead of leftists.
See: https://lemmy.world/post/48251065/24310019
BillCheddar prefers MAGA to leftists.
SaltyAmerican 3 points 2 months ago
Liberals have always defended right wing policy over leftist ideals
craftrabbit -6 points 2 months ago
Have you guys seen the Johnny Harris video about oligarchy? I think it's more the left and the right punching down to defend the ones on top.
latestagecapitalism
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latestagecapitalism
@lemmy.world
3656
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A place for for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited.
A zero-tolerance policy for bigotry of any kind. Failure to respect this will result in a ban.
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But think of all the supposed swing voters that they're winning over
Any day now they'll start voting blue, I'm sure of it
Any day...
save