What's your experience with autistic trauma?
3 days ago by schipelblorp to c/autism
So I've been thinking about how unhinged I've been over the past several months around employment and society, and I'm wondering if I'm having a trauma reaction from all the bad times I've had with employment.
I've been fired from I'd say half the jobs I've ever had. In my chosen field and trained field, I have never once had a job I looked forward to going to. My last job experience was really, really, horrible, despite having an advanced degree and a language skill, I was kept making coffee because I didn't cajole and get along with the power structure and made the mistake of publically criticizing.
It's hard for me to even write about without getting upset, yet, if I want to make a living, I have to keep applying to these jobs for which I keep bombing the interview, for which, if I ever get the job, I will probably have to deal with unethical egotistical backstabbing morons every day until I get fired or rage quit (like the last job).
In the meantime, I can't go to therapy, because therapy is the field I'm in and I'd estimate the percentage of therapists who can actually talk to me without immediately getting defensive is about 1%, which throws me back to the Daniel Mackler quote, "It is easier to become a good therapist than to find one," which leads me here because I'm wondering what:
a) experiences y'all have had for autistic burnout and
b) anything you tried to help you through it and
c) any resources you'd find helpful.
I also think that I'm sour on employment specifically because it is basically the ony time I'm forced to interact with people on a regular basis, which makes me think autism might be the key to this current trauma. I've tried socializing in meetups and other venues, and it always fizzled, but it never ends horribly the way work does.
This is me but also add trans and sexual trauma. My therapist wanted to see if I could get diagnosed with PTSD, but I couldn't get a psychologist here. Even though I don't have a diagnosis, I mean, I have literal flashbacks to humiliating social situations, so if it walks like a duck.
I have flashbacks like that. Most of my flashbacks are emotional flashbacks, however, from CPTSD.
I have all the symptoms of someone who was sexually abused as a child but zero memories of it happening. I was reading a book called Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving and got to the part where they talk about this. Apparently the symptoms of adults who were physically abused as a child and the symptoms of adults who were sexually abused as a child are often identical. Don't hit your kids, duh.
It might be worth it for you to read about CPTSD. It certainly helped me.
How's the security job?
I find the jobs that don't involve people involve doing NOTHING, and that often doing nothing unaided by books or internet or podcasts... but if I had a job where I did nothing but exist and could do what I wanted with my attention, that would be fine.
I remember one temp job I had at the front desk of a building where every few minutes a guest would have to sign in and I'd have to tear myself away from doing something interesting to smile at them and watch them sign their names and tell the to have a nice day and whatnot. That was hard.
It's not bad. The security industry is notoriously predatory towards its workers so which company you work for definitely makes a difference, but the job itself can be quite compatible with autism/social problems. My weekend gig is 6 am to 6 pm at a data center (I'm aware how awful data centers tend to be, but it's not like they'd shut the place down if I quit out of principle).
We're required to do a minimum of two patrols during our shift, which ends up being around 8,000 steps. The freedom to leave the security office and walk around hourly is wonderful. I spend most of my time either reading or on social media.
There are certainly some security gigs that involve a lot of socializing, where you're basically a receptionist. I cover shifts at those types of sites on occasion but of course I need to wary of burnout so I usually only accept one extra shift per week. Getting a 32 hour work week in three shifts is game changing.
I've been doing retail since high school and I never seemed to get anywhere. I'm good at working but not good with the schmoozing, so they always kept me at like a shift supervisor level. Anyway I blew up and rage quit my last job and wound up driving an Amazon truck. Holy shit it's night and day. I get a route, I run it. My coworkers all seem to be like me, so we get along for the 20 minutes we see each other every day. If you can afford it, try something that doesn't involve being face to face with people all the time, it's seriously saving my sanity (at least until I get run through the meat grinder and have to quit)
Prepare yourself for when your training period ends. Delivering Amazon packages is a great gig right up until then. I don't know the exact extent as to how much they increase your daily package load when the training period ends, but it seemed like they damn near doubled it. It went from a great job to a nightmare overnight.
Nice! I'm glad you got a good route. I've heard that a person's experience with Amazon delivery is almost entirely dependent on your DSP. Mine was awful.
Having a route with higher drive time between stops is a great time to listen to music/podcasts.
Oh yeah, driving through some really nice scenery in a rented van with Android Auto is sooooo nice! My DSP figured out if I stay on a route I get faster so I don't get moved around a whole lot, love it
Amazon is a grind, I heard, I think their turnover is close to 100%. How long have the people you've been working with been there?
But I here you. I landed as an ancillary to a tech job and was having a good time with my co-workers finally. It was the people here that were like,, "Yeah, tech? All those people you got along with were probably on the spectrum." And true! Of course, the management included absolutely none of us, and they were all the type of people to chat in the backoffice and enjoy their prize trips to Disneyworld with other employees....
My problem with driving jobs specifically is that I hate driving and I I hate cars, and if I''m ever in a bad mood and driving a company vehicle, I might get careless.
Yeah, if you don't like driving it wouldn't work out I guess 😕 The turnover where I work isn't tooooooooo bad but we do have a lot of newbies that don't finish their first week. It helps that we're a super rural station so it's not nearly as bad as you hear coming from the big cities.
I heard something akin to most people who studied psychology did so to get an understanding of themselves or why they don't fit in. Not sure how ture it is, sounds reasonable, but it leads to dealing with a lot of people and their people problems.
I know I need predictability so the less people the better. They also better be similarly minded, I don't fancy having to be an unpaid actor on top of my job, hell no.
Working fully remotely was the best change to work conditions, but RTO is sadly spreading like the plague.
I still burned out at every job I had. At my last place I wanted a change so I deliberately worked slow and borderline quiet quit. Still burned out, and felt like an impostor or conman to top it off. I can hardly describe the joy when my contract ended, I was riding that high for a week.
My next idea is to start my own business. The reason being is I need not just predictability but also autonomy. I can't stand working on something I don't agree with. It is artificial and forced. Fuck that.
But starting your own business involves a big component of selling yourself which I find really distasteful.
I remember job interviews where I presented my qualifications, and we each asked our questions, and then.... the guy just wanted to sit and make small talk until I bailed. Surprise: didn't get the job.
I imagine every consultation with a client going like that.
But starting your own business involves a big component of selling yourself which I find really distasteful.
It took me a while to be able to verbalize this but once I did it made my internal repulsion make so much more sense. Why yes, I could make just as much money, working less, by being a consultant. But I'd have to be constantly selling myself, on top of not knowing where next month's rent was coming from. In what universe am I supposed to find that appealing???
If you have stable customers and a good reputation, that's probably more reliable than employment these days.
Of course, insurance and taxes will fuck you over.
The point I'm trying to make is to align the incentives of the job and myself. A good cause I can stand behind or something I would already do otherwise. Being your own boss means you can choose your customers (who you deal with) more easily than an emplyee. I don't need to please everyone and I damn well won't be.
Selling yourself is discarding your principles. I'm in IT so my insight is limited to your situation, but why don't you only consult people you can deal with? One of my friend's wife is the breadwinner of their household and she does couple consultation online. She found her niche and builds her business that way she likes.
I had a GF who was amazing photographer. The only real way to make money was weddings, and weddings were a high-cost event that was an absolute GAUNTLET of schmoozing with at least the bride but often the groom as well. And you'd have to do that for every single wedding.
There was absolutely no fucking way I'd have gotten through that.
But if you have a technical skill, it's easy enough to define and maybe even demonstrate, and maybe the people interested in you are also on the spectrum or just care about the output, and maybe there's regular repeat business which makes winning a client a worthwhile endeavor...
That is to say, the sales component can vary.
So this was a social drop-in center for people with mental illness.
I remember we'd have parties. All the workers would stand in the kitchen talking among themselves and I'd be like, "Why? What is the point of this? Why would I get paid to stand around and talk to other co-workers?" so I'd go into the office and do some work or goof off.
My boss thought that it looked bad, so he'd drag me out and I'd stand around the edge of conversations awkwardly, wondering what the fuck this was all about and how fraudulent this whole exercise was that if the appearance of sociability was more important than actual helping people, because the directive wasn't, "talk to the people that come to the center for help", it was, "look sociable so the case management team can see that i have an extra employee" or something.
Really incomprehensible.
My problem with the work itself was that that I had no defined role, but it was absolutely defined what you could NOT be. You could not be:
a) a case manager
b) a therapist
c) a friend
d) a job coach
So basically what you were left with was sitting down and being a target of conversation for random people who had burned through everyone else in their life, and if that wasn't happening you were on your phone or the computer or reading a book unless the boss had said we had to engage with people the day before and then you had to appear to make an effort.
I did sometimes enjoy conversations with people, but it was a small group of very stable people and it got extremely repetitive--the biggest talkers had legitimate traumatic brain injuries and did not notice they were having the came conversation every day.
I actually got in the habit of going outside and playing guitar, and later I heard that my co-workers were complaining, but all I heard was that I should tell people I'd be outside, an acknowledgment that I had actually nothing to do but fill out the roster so my manager could look by having an employee on staff.
Anyway, I think I have some trauma from that experience, and the rest of my professional life hasn't been much better.
I read your post and this comment. I'm still not clear on what you found traumatic about the job... the social dynamic? You are describing the common experience of having autism and being in the work place.
I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't be traumatized by that, but setting your expectations and figuring out how to deal with those situations is an important responsibility. It will be pretty much everywhere you go, unless you run your own business.
Are you saying that because it is a common experience it is therefore not traumatic?
And I'm saying that it doesn't matter what YOU think is a responsible way to approach it, the fact is that if I'm having a traumatic reaction, the responsible thing is to acknowledge and cope with that traumatic reaction.
And the reality is that if I'm not have a trauma reaction when I'm thinking about jobs to apply for (or create), if I'm not having a traumatic reaction when I'm applying for jobs, and if I'm not having traumatic reactions when preparing or performing a job interview, I'm much more likely to GET that job, at which point I can start thinking about how to plan for it.
And the other issue is that my field is not autistic-friendly at all, and it's also a field where job performance means nothing relative to your ability to be a happy-maker for co-workers and supervisors, everything is subjective and easily gamed. So I'm really struggling if I have a future in this field at all, because I see them all as spineless cocksuckers, which is another traumatic reaction that is ultimately not helpful.
Are you saying that because it is a common experience it is therefore not traumatic?
I’m not saying that you should or shouldn’t be traumatized by that (is what I said).
The responsibility is taking charge of healing that trauma, if that's the situation, and in becoming resilient to what sets you off. What I'm saying is, this is largely the way employment goes for autistic people and not really an issue of your field or workplace... at least where neurotypical leadership and social structures take shape.
Seeing your coworkers as spineless cocksuckers is a judgment, not a trauma reaction. One that's about making yourself feel better for being a social misfit... trust me, I understand this as someone who was also guilty of this same kind of thinking for way too long. I think you can do a lot to change your perspective and make things easier for yourself if you look inward.
Just to be clear, it's totally not fair that this is the way things are and that you're given a shitty hand to work with... but focusing too much on that is going to help keep you stuck in this rut.
We seem to be having a disconnect. I'm saying I need to take charge of the trauma, and you are telling me the same, so I'm not sure what you actually want me to do differently.
Are you in a technical field where you can be judged objectively and in such a manner that you can stand out from your peers?
Imagine you did not have that. Imagine that no matter how good a job you did or how hard you worked, no matter the education you had, no matter your certifications, that the only thing mattered is what your peers and supervisor thought of you socially?
And also imagine that as a result of that, your opportunities will be zero. You can spend the rest of your life in this field and at this company and you will never get promoted. In five years, in eleven years, in twenty-three years, you will be doing the same thing, and getting paid the same (if not effectively less).
Imagine you can of course find a different job, but the situation will be the same.
And ""spineless cocksuckers" is a characterization based on observation. It's not a flattering characterization, but it's just as true as saying advancement is based on people-pleasing.
I mean yeah. Being autistic makes work a living hell even when the job itself is fine because you have to go back to a place where you have to act like people don't hate you from the moment they look at you on some primal level that they aren't even aware of, and have to ignore the fact that every word that comes out of your mouth grates against other people on some visceral level. It's straight up to the point where people will slam the door when they hear my voice (and one time I got told that that wasn't the case when I wasn't even thinking about anything with regards to that which shows that people tell on themselves...) Hobby groups and meetups tend to be more neurodivergent-friendly by design, since it's not socialization that comes with your daily routine, and in my experience even allistic people tend to view us a little bit more favorably if it's through a shared interest in which we have some level of competence or knowledge. I tend to try and be very reserved around coworkers since I know that anything I say can and will be used against me. If I tell other people about it, then they say that I'm being dramatic and that I can't prove that my coworkers hate me. But this has been my experience in every work situation I've ever been in. I know that there are some workplaces that are more autistic friendly and that remote work is often better but unfortunately I've worked almost all front-facing jobs in my lifetime. I literally got to the point where I went on SSRIs just to cope with it (they're only kind of helpful and have side effects).
I know that experiences can vary and all but I've also personally not found therapy, not even neurodivergent-affirming therapy, to be very helpful. I found it meandering and felt like I was misunderstood. I think that if I worked with an autistic-informed trauma therapist, then I might stand a chance, but I feel like the intersection of trauma and autism is not well understood. The autism-informed therapists that I had used a 'combination of modalities' but it seemed like it was mostly just talk therapy. I am interested in Somatic Experiencing, but I think it would have to be heavily modified for it to work for me since in spite of being emotionally dysregulated and very angry and resentful due to trauma, I also have alexithymia to a certain extent when it comes to other emotions. I want to believe that there's some form of therapy out there somewhere that can do something for me.
As for burnout, I was in previous jobs and just forced myself through anyway, which just made my mental illness worse in the long run. Probably inadvisable. In retrospect, I wouldn't have. I had the resources such that I didn't have to. But now that's probably what I would actually have to do.
I feel more ignored, sometimes tolerated, sometimes disrespected, but when you're at a job that kinda sucks and doesn't pay anything, all you're thinking about is getting a promotion or transfer that is never gonna come. My last job's inciting incident was being treated with open contempt by someone outside my department, then complete dismissal by the person (who I thought was a friend) who should have been protecting me. But that place is like game of fucking thrones, always sucking up to power, and backing me up would have meant standing up to the power structure, so of course she totally fucking caved.
I'm pretty sparse on special interests, most of my meetups were general interest-type groups, and they were entirely a wash. I think it's funny that a therapist would just encourage me to go out and meet people and they didn't have anyhting to say when I told them that I went to multiple weekly meetups for over a year without making a single friend or connection.
Your taking SSRIs to deal with a horrible situation in reality is textbook why-I-hate-the-field. There's nothing wrong with you! It's the system you're forced to live under that's the problem, and if you're depressed, it's a perfectly natural reaction to knowing from experience that you're likely to be hated for 40+ hours every week of your life!
Anyway, I feel like I wouldn't have needed therapy if I could figure out how to make enough money to live on without exposing myself to misery, and no amount of therapy has ever helped me with that, so all therapy ever did was waste my time and mislocate all the blame for my problems on me.
I also tried a public job coach, but they are used to dealing with people who are intellectually disabled, so that's how the approached my case.
I encourage you to keep trying things, though, with or without a therapist. I wish I could do cool stuff like IFS or Jungian shit, but my brain is just on lockdown mode all the time. I can't generate anything to work with and barely remember my childhood. The only thing I ight help is going on a walkabout in the woods and just leaving everythign behind, but I'm pretty addicted to the internet.
There are autism friendly jobs but pretty much none of them are in an office. Repairing stuff, electrician, plumbing, carpentry, car mechanic are all jobs I think would fit me better than programming just because the programming involves being in an office and communicating.
I have a master's degree and just wondering if I have a future past bagging groceries until I get fired becasue I didn't smile at a customer.
I wasn't being factious. We are led to believe that work will be fair and we will be treated as a valued asset. We generally have laws on it. But the reality is not there. I would say a lot of neurodivergent people rely on that logic. SO when it does happen its hard to reconcile.
You/we should be treated fair. I think a some people let that slide and some just cant and that makes the work-life a lot tougher.
Yeah, well, I'm starting to see the outline of the problem is that without a real verifiable job skill to distinguish myself, I forever will be at the mercy of being liked by allistic people. Social work is absolutely unverifiable work and actually quite immediately and obviously horrible people have long and successful careers as therapists. Case management is worse, where everyone pretty much does an equivalent job and the only thing that matters is psychologically servicing your supervisor and agency.
Retail is just as bad, everyone can do every job just as well, really, but probably the most important qualification is unethical behavior in meeting metrics; but, yeah, there's a guy here that says he could never get above shift supervisor, probably because shooting the shit with the manager at the golf course is required for anything higher than that....
So I'm an old fucking man, but don't see much choice but to try to get an apprenticeship in some kind of trade, even if it means working for free for a few months while I'm not employed. Then at least people can say, "What can you do?" instead of "How do you make me feel?"
I feel this very strongly too. At the moment I've lucked out by getting a job where I mostly work from home and don't have to interact too much with people but even so I'm scared of being back in the exact same situations you describe if this goes to shit. And actually I don't even like the job much and it is taking energy from my special interests but I also know it's maybe one of my only options for a stable and somewhat bearable way of making a living so I'm sort of stuck
"Not enjoying the job much" is my emotional high watermark for employment!
What is the job?
No neede to apologize!
It looked like it covered the bases and I was mostly interested in what you guys had to say and after I posted I had that same nagging doubt you did, but absent actual factual errors decided to leave it up.
Basically, it's just that being continuously and consistently rejected in every social situation your entire life can fuck you up, leaving you traumatized.
I hate AI, too. Sorry to put you through that. I'll see if I can find something better.
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@lemmy.world
This is a community for people with Autism to be themselves. All neurotypes are welcome.
Community: ::: spoiler Values
- Acceptance
- Openness
- Understanding
- Equality
- Reciprocity
- Mutuality
- Love :::
Rules
- No abusive, derogatory, or offensive post/comments e.g: racism, sexism, religious hatred, homophobia, gatekeeping, trolling.
- Posts do not need be related to autism, off-topic discussions are allowed. This is a safe space where people with autism can feel comfortable discussing whatever they feel like discussing, as long as it does not violate the standing rules.
- Do not request donations.
- Be respectful in discussions.
- Do not post misinformation.
- Mark NSFW content accordingly.
- Do not promote Autism Speaks.
- General Lemmy World rules.
- No bots. Humans only.
Encouraged
- Open acceptance of all autism levels as a respectable neurotype.
- Funny memes.
- Respectful venting.
- Describe posts of pictures/memes using text in the body for our visually impaired users.
- Welcoming and accepting attitudes.
- Questions regarding autism.
- Questions on confusing situations.
- Seeking and sharing support.
- Engagement in our community's values.
- Expressing a difference of opinion without directly insulting another user.
- Please report questionable posts and let the mods deal with it.
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Helpful Resources
- Are you seeking education, support groups, and more? Take a look at our list of helpful resources.
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My autistic trauma is debilitating. If I hadn't found this unarmed security job where I'm almost always alone, I would likely be dead or homeless.
I find myself unable to interact with society almost entirely. I can make myself leave my comfort zone long enough to run errands like grocery shopping, but I need to be alone afterwards. I can't make phonecalls, open mail, make appointments, see a therapist, make new friends, and there are some days at work which involve a lot of interaction so I'm occasionally worried I will eventually burn out of this security "career." It gets worse as I get older.
My nervous system is beyond fucked and is convinced every human wants to abuse me. The amount of decompression I require to allow myself to work two or three days a week has been sustainable up until recently, as now this inflation has disrupted the life I have managed to build.
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