Fear, Responsibility, and Shame in Young Men’s Sexual Lives: New study suggests that many young men today see sex as a "hazard to manage" rather than an enjoyable experience.

6 hours ago by beep to c/science

cross-posted from: https://piefed.world/...

This study examines how this generation of young heterosexual men—who have come of age in the “age of consent”—emotionally experience sex. We thematically analyzed 31 in-depth interviews with men aged 18 to 32 years. The most striking finding is how rarely these men described enjoying sex. Three themes emerged. First, anxiety and vigilance accompanied sexual encounters. Second, there was a moral concern about causing harm to a sexual partner. Third, shame arose not only from accusations by others, but also from self-criticism. The themes overlap substantially, suggesting aspects of a complex, sometimes contradictory experience. The defining feature is an inward turn: a cultural suspicion of men appears to have been internalized by some young men. For these men, the question when navigating consent is often not only “does she want this?” but “am I the kind of man who could get this wrong?” Sex, as one participant put it, is “like you’re trying to defuse a bomb.” These young men have come to approach sex as a hazard to manage rather than a relational experience to share. They attributed this wariness to the cultural climate that surrounds consent.

ReluctantlyZen 17 points 6 hours ago

A group of 31 men seems way too small to make statements like this, no?

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zout 5 points 2 hours ago

Not necessarily. The minimum is usually set at 30. More is also more accurate though. What's more important is how random the group is selected.

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Brainsploosh 7 points 2 hours ago

Holy invalidating methodological weaknesses that journal has a low credibility score.

Also, the paper is incomprehensibly written, but after digging through the sources, the dataset is 35 self selected (through internet peer recruitment) college aged men (of which 31 were heteosexual).

As the study is qualitative, it's no use criticising the findings too badly. It shouldn't be hard to find 31 chronically online men on a forum/discord/comm somewhere who share these ideas.

It would be interesting to compare this to a more average population though.

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RecursiveParadox 2 points an hour ago

Thanks for checking the journal's score. In an earlier career I did IDIs. If recruited correctly, it can inform later qualitative research paths.

N=2 and all, but both my sons are in this age range and have described exactly this post did. Then again, neither is particularly neurotypical, so who knows.

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Fallibilist 6 points 5 hours ago

Can't say I've ever much enjoyed it myself either. It's something I've always just done for her and I'm just happy to get it over with. One of the best things about being single is not having to even think about it.

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kettuli 1 point 4 hours ago

It took me a couple of relationships to find the joy of coitus. Jacking off also makes it less enjoyable.

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Fallibilist 2 points 2 hours ago

And starving myself makes shitty food more enjoyable as well but that just seems a bit backwards to me. Yet another thing to sacrifice from my own life just to please her.

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kettuli 2 points an hour ago

Oh no, it’s to please you specifically, as an added bonus it might make you more attentive overall in the act but it’s supposed to make specifically you happier.

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Fallibilist 1 point 23 minutes ago

Please me as in fill the self-inflicted void I created by starving myself. That's like breaking something just so you can take pleasure in fixing it.

Nah. I had high expectations for sex but it has been a letdown since my first time. I'm perfectly capable of scratching my own itch. I don't need their help for it. You can have my sex too.

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TubularTittyFrog 3 points an hour ago

I am not young and yeah I feel the same way. The negative externalities of romance/sex just massively outweigh the tangible benefits of having them. And the benefits of relationships for me are just... not existent for the most part.

And I have four nephews, three of which agree with me in their own way. They simple don't see the benefit of having a girlfriend, but they do see the costs. And when they engage in dating they just feel exhausted and miserable and they don't understand why they put so much effort in for so little happiness returned.

The world changed. 20 years ago relationships were not like this, but they are very different now. When I was in relationships in my teens and 20s I was not subjected to the amount of targeted manipulation and resource-seeking behaviors, but once I got into my mid 30s it was all I encountered.

The last time I had relationship that i felt was mutually rewarding was in the 2010. But it ended once she adopted the toxic mentality that I was not 'doing enough' for her, as in buying her things and insulating her from the consequences of her own choices. And it was entirely a product of her social environment that changed her attitude from happy and grateful to be together and support each other, to a cruel cost-benefit analysis with the expectation of a lopsided split in her favor at all times, and the expectation that nothing was ever her fault, because good partners don't let you make mistakes, they prevent you from making them...

And sadly that mentality is all I seem to encounter in the dating market these days. I'm expected to be an authoritative father figure for most women I date, meanwhile I'm over here looking for an adult partner and a relationship built on respect rather than fiscal and emotional dependency. And both of us are miserable dating each other because we have wildly different expectations.

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IamtheMorgz 3 points an hour ago

As a woman who occasionally dates men, thanks for sharing this perspective. Oddly, I have found with almost every guy I've dated since 2010, that they want to be a father figure or leader or household authoritarian more than they want to be a partner so it's interesting to hear a guy mention it from this perspective. Perhaps its like the old dancing conundrum (leads say the number one issue is the follower trying to lead and followers say the number one issue is a lack of actual leading).

I think the resource part is sort of right though. I think I'm like that! I'm in my 30s, financially secure, and I have a number of deep and fulfilling friendships, so I absolutely don't like putting up with anyone that brings more stress than relief into my life. Sex, while fun and all, just isn't the main goal of any of my relationships, so it's not even the top factors that weighs in on whether or not I'm putting up with someone. I do expect my partner to be an asset to me in ways other than just sex. Maybe that's why I'm still single.

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Oofnik 1 point 2 minutes ago

I'm older than the men in this study, but I want to share my anecdotal experience as a contrast to the attitude of many in the comments, which I think are a superficial analysis of the situation. (This is assuming that the results are valid despite the small sample size. I don't really know how to assess that.)

I can really relate to these feelings when I was a younger man. I think the article nearly separates fear of being accused (self-preservation) with fear of moral harm (care for one's sexual partner). Because we live in a patriarchal society, men get the messages that women are false accusers or, equally harmful, that bad sex counts as rape according to "modern culture" or something.

Because I had people in my life willing to tolerate my younger self and teach me feminism, I know that false reports are virtually non-existent, that I shouldn't be so fucking neurotic about sex because I always care about my partner and consent in or out of a sexual context, that small mistakes don't make me a deviant monster, etc. But when I was 20? I heard the manosphere incel bullshit voices and the feminist voices, and I didn't know what to believe - I was young and naive and sexually frustrated. Thank God I made it through that without falling to red or black pill culture.

But we as feminists need better PR that educates just as much as it (justifiably) shames.

As leftists we generally think that society-wide problems have society-wide causes and solutions. We need to reach young men instead of just rolling our eyes or calling them people who just hate their sexual partners.

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Solumbran -9 points 4 hours ago

If you are so worried about being a rapist that it prevents you from enjoying sex, maybe you're doing things wrong.

This feels like a weird masculinist incel bullshit, and the sample size confirms that it's just crap.

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daggermoon 12 points 3 hours ago

God forbid men care about their partners well-being.

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TubularTittyFrog 1 point an hour ago

Caring about people other than yourself without their consent is rape now, or something.

And expecting them to care about you? That's abuse.

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IamtheMorgz 2 points 44 minutes ago

I think the point is that young men (at least those on the internet!) are feeling like they don't understand the lines anymore. It's a good thing that they're thinking about it! It's a failure for society if we can't help them find a way to navigate it. The conversation around consent has sort of left out how to pursue a successful sexual encounter. We should work on that. It's because we still don't like talking about sex, as a society. I'm glad we're talking about consent more now! But it's only part of the equation.

Maybe the study is shit, but it's a window into at least how some young men are feeling. The kind of young men who are most susceptible to the incel culture. If we can find ways to get men away from that path we should.

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