It's the same excitement that nerds felt about the first oculus or the Index. These people are excited now, but they'll most likely play with it for a few weeks then it'll start collecting dust.
Until they can make the thing small, like sunglasses small, no one is going to adopt it widly.
From what I've read online of those who have tried it at WWDC, they mention that it's actually very impressive. The resolution is like looking through a pair of glasses, the AR experiences demonstrated were unbelievable and overall the headset was a joy to use. Although every reviewer mentioned the price was way too high.
What interested me from the announcement was Disney showing off the stats when watching sports and the 3D court / field for instant replays. If they actually bring that fruition, then that would be something unique.
I'm an android user though and not a fan of apple, but if it spurs on competition and starts bringing AR further into the mainstream, we may see more of this tech becoming cheaper. I definitely prefer movie watching in a silo environment (currently use the nReal glasses for this) but watching sports too with stats etc and some incredible AR, as well as office working would definitely get me interested. If the price was right.
Yeah I can agree its impressive technologically and don't mean to be a downer. Just feels less practical than it's been sold as. I'd still be on the side of this not being adopted until the form factor is resolved.
@WorriedGnome @milkpiss @orbit Regarding the price, I wonder just *how* any business could effectively reduce costs without adding in bloatware or the like.
So far in the MR headset space the main ways have been to either just *eat* the cost (see: Meta/FB & Quest) or offer a lesser experience (see: Google's foray into Cardboard, Samsung Gear VR, etc.). The Quest has been making some headway, but it's still been an uphill struggle even at its lower cost.
(sorry for notifs, testing federation)
Another thing to note is how comfortable it is to wear. I have a quest 2 but I can't watch a full movie on it as my face gets sweaty and the device gets heavy. With the vision pro being slimmer, it might offset some of the downward force at the front and be enjoyable to wear. Although that is yet to be seen and reviews will hopefully report truthfully on that. I like watching movies on my nReal Airs as they are very lightweight and this is where the true adoption of the tech will take off.
When they can fit the features of the vision pro into a glasses like model, then you'll see it take off at warp speed. But we've a long way to go before reaching that form factor.
People are acting like this is the next "iPhone reveal". That's all. With pricing being restrictive and the tech itself not anything revolutionary, this will need a lot to take off.
If its wearable all day, with next to no strain, and the features advertised turn out to be real and work incredibly well, it might be worth it even at a slightly lower price point. I would pay for a premium model and move ecosystems if those points were met, but the cynic in me believes it could all be hype. I guess I'll have to wait a year and find out!
Current VR user here, in very niche situations its kinda cool to watch videos in VR in random places in your house because then you don't have to hold up a screen, but outside of those situations its a huge gimmick in my opinion.
It has nothing to do with a brand logo. Apple just makes quality computing hardware and has always tried to make really good software too. I'm going to buy it because I think it will be fun to play with and better quality than any existing VR/AR.
I feel like people are super fixated on how dumb it looks and less on it’s uncomfortable and often kinda gross to have something pressed against your skin for extended periods of time.
I know that Apple sets trends and whatever (like airpods) but i’m not sure they can pull off the “Apple VR-specific breakout pattern face.” I do enjoy the idea of the super rich peeps buying this to sit in their beige houses, headset clogging their pores.
The fashion aspect of AR gets played out a lot especially from tech enthusiasts who, lets face it arent known for their fashion in the first place. Fashion and what is and isnt cool can change rapidly and drastically. In the 80s it was normal for guys to wear colorful fashion featuring short shorts and croptops in the US and this continued through until the early 90s. Then very abruptly that became uncool and it was about baggy clothes, shorts that went down past your knees, and solid more plain colors.
From the mid 90s to 10s denim based shirts went into fashion, out of fashion, and back again. Leggings went from underwear to something you wear with a long shirt covering butt, to just an alternative to pants. Thick rim glasses came, went, and then came back. People drape giant headphones around their neck these days and those mid sized portable but over ear market is all but dead. Going back further guys used to powder their face and wear tights and heels.
The look can be a part of it but the issue with ar so far is comfort, and functionality. I dont know if I think apple is going to crack it, but today's ridiculous can become tomorrows fashion trend and it can happen on a dime. We just need the right influence and the right push
People are also forgetting that you can record stereoscopic video from the headset. Which is cool for the wearer, but potentially creepy for people around them. That's part of the reason Google Glass failed
I feel like this is solving an issue with a problem that Apple made up themselves. Normal virtual reality is too isolating, the way augmented reality has worked so far is insufficient, this is a good in-between.
...But I feel like it's just a way for people to get trapped within their work even further. Want to get up and walk around for a few minutes? Well, you're still getting Teams messages or whatever, because you've got these goggles stuck to your face. I don't see how that's a positive.
They're far from perfect, but I have the Nreal Air glasses and find them pretty dope. They have sony oled tech so they're surprisingly bright even in a lit room, and the pixel density is great. No screen door effect like VR headsets.
They're the 1st iteration, not very user-friendly for non-techies and absolutely need a lot of work, but the concept is very much there. I mostly use them to play Steam deck games on a "big screen" now, but the accompanying Android app attempts a phone + app-like design like the Vision.
Looks interesting! Though unfortunately I don't have any devices that are compatible with it (Pixel phone is out, Intel Mac is a no, and no general desktop/windows/Linux support), but I'll certainly keep my eye out to see if they expand, or if similar products launch!
Remember Google Glass? And Glassholes? People made fun of those who chose to use something which was way less intrusive than the Apple headset.
No but i bet there are a lot of corporate execs and wannabe crypto landlords that WANT me to wear a headset all the time. You gotta imagine the CEOs are drooling at the idea of making yet another $1000+ device mandatory for modern life.
@king_dead @milkpiss have you read Ready Player One.
Stacks are first on the list and haven't seen any yet
Hell no. Oculus seemed like a really cool product when I was 17 and in love with "Ready Player One", but now that we've seen the way that Big Tech just treats its users as profit-cattle fed on a diet of ads and angry people, I have no fucking desire to strap one of those things to my head (outside of actually gaming...then it's kinda cool).
It’s a cool gadget which I’d love to try but no way would buy. It just doesn’t do anything practical that I can’t already do quicker, easier and more effectively with more traditional devices. it’s far too expensive to justify as a fun gadget.
The article is right, very few people would want to sit with this on their head in the company of other people. It’s a generally a solo experience.
I could see it being extremely useful for those with disabilities though and I suppose if anyone can bring mixed reality devices more to the main stream it’s going to be apple
For work, I cannot see myself wanting to use one, but for media consumption, it would probably blow everything else out of the water, assuming you're cool with being fairly isolated in your experience. They sort of teased this, but being able to watch something like Avatar 3 with Pandora as my surrounding sounds so incredibly cool.
assuming you’re cool with being fairly isolated in your experience
I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be cool with that... but for me most of the times that I'm watching a movie it's with my partner, it would be rare to sit down to watch a whole movie on my own except when i'm traveling
Although the part of the video where they showed it being used on a plane? I mean.. yeah might look weird.. but being able to tune out the rest of the enviroment and isolate yourself? That does sound pretty amazing.
I did find it a bit funny when they mentioned something along the lines of, "Look how many devices this one device can replace, such as your TV, and monitors, etc," which is true to a point... If you are the only one who actually uses those things. I have a wife and two children, and a nephew who frequently comes over to watch TV. If we all wanted to sit down and watch a Movie together with this experience, I would have to shell out $18k. 🥴
On the other hand, for single folks like me it seems worthwhile. I game on a 4K projector that costs $3000, I also used to have a 49" ultrawide monitor which I sold off recently cause I was using my projector more, so at least for me, Apple's headset could replace a bunch of my costly gadgets - assuming it has video inputs of course (not sure if it does, haven't seen any mentions of it).
I used to use my Google Daydream for that. It let me watch Westworld on a plane without being inappropriate, and it cost me about fifty bucks.
The only reason I actually hope these things take off is because I'm a shut-in and disabled, and would love to see the world through VR. But I imagine I'm part of a very tiny minority.
Add to that, I'm South American and live with 6k USD a year (comfortably, for now). I could save up, but there's no way I'm spending more than 400-500 USD on a headset, no matter which brand it is.
I can't imagine most people will want to wear that headset for more than the 2 hours the battery lasts. I know I haven't when wearing existing vr headsets. I seem to max out at about 30 minutes.
I think to get to a consumer version Apple will want to drop all of the glass and metal and go for lighter plastic instead. They need to drop the secondary outward facing screen as well for weight, battery and cost savings.
If things can get comparable to thicker framed normal glasses, that will be when VR/AR can really become mainstream.
Yeah, the fact that it's made out of metal is a questionable decision. I can only imagine how heavy that headset is
I may be in the minority here, but I do, and frequently have. There is a sizeable community like that, but we don't seem to really fall into Apple's target market, and it will be interesting to see how orthogonal that willingness is to being a techie shut-in.
For me, the big reason I don't wear it 8-10 hours per day when I'm working like I do when I'm playing is the pixel density. Current VR headsets (except maybe Varjo's) don't do a good job of simulating even one 4k screen, let alone competing with a multi-monitor setup, so they fall short for productivity. Once that's solved (and that's the claim Apple seems to be making here), the case for use as a primary work machine is very compelling. It lets you set up something like this for the cost of a headset and a reclining office chair, and is also somehow portable.
It fails if you use it exactly like you use a laptop, just like a phone does. If you take advantage of the increased flexibility though, it has pretty transformative potential.
That said, that's the perspective of a technologist with no kids who works from home. I wouldn't buy this because its standout features are irrelevant to me, so I'm from a representative sample of the market they're chasing.
I'm inclined to agree with you that it might be a potentially good way to interact with a computer. There's a company called Sightful that makes a "Spacetop" computer, which is basically a laptop with a headset instead of a screen. Mike Elgan actually gave it some pretty positive press lately.
As someone who travels constantly and misses a big monitor on the road, I am inclined to agree that the use case could be compelling.
But... $3,500 is a lot of lettuce for something that could easily be obsolete as fast as my cell phone. And Apple mentioned that the total field of vision is something over 4k, but that's still a lot less than multiple 4k monitors.
Still, I'm willing to be convinced. Especially if a stripped down "viewer only" model comes out without all the bells and whistles. I don't need outward display, or the lidar, or any of that. I just want a big workspace.
But… $3,500 is a lot of lettuce for something that could easily be obsolete as fast as my cell phone. And Apple mentioned that the total field of vision is something over 4k, but that’s still a lot less than multiple 4k monitors.
I'm waiting to see what they drop 12 - 18 months later. I'd wager by the time the 2nd-gen Vision Pro comes out, they will release a more stripped down model that will be roughly equivalent to what they are releasing next year, and will likely start at around $1,200. By that point, the App ecosystem, will likely be mature enough that they will be able to have a version that serves as a loss leader or just breaks even, and they'll make their revenue on the backend with their 40% App Store cut.
I think we can definitely expect a lighter version (Apple Vision Air?). I'm skeptical Apple would ever do a loss leader though; they tend to make money on all their products and with healthy margins.
I mean, no.
I think at most it's somewhat comparable to sitting down at an old fashioned desktop computer. It's your primary focus of attention. When you're not using it, you take it off.
The example of a dad doing a real-time recording of himself playing with his kids is cringy AF.
Honestly though, if there is one thing Apple is really good at, it's normalizing things that many might perceive as weird at first. I remember owning a first-gen Pebble, and I had numerous people jest about dorky it was with gems like, "You totally owned a calculator watch didn't you?" Fast forward a few years, and Apple Watches are everywhere. Wearing a Vision headset at a kids birthday party will probably be on the same level as busting out an iPad to capture a video.
Maybe if they're normal, they'll still be contextual. Earbuds are totally normal, but unless they're hearing aids, it would not be socially acceptable to just have your earbuds in all the time at your kid's birthday party.
These I think are like earbuds for your eyes. Yes, they can have a mode where you interact with the outside world without removing them, but that's only for intermittent use. If you and I have a conversation, you'll likely remove your earbuds.
I'm pretty sure that was keynote-friendly code for "look how detailed the VR porn is going to be."
I completely agree with this article. If watching movies in VR was going to be a popular thing, then it would have happened already. It's been possible for a long time. The reason people don't do it is because it's far more convenient to just use a TV. It's not a matter of visual fidelity, it's a matter of comfort. (Also it's a matter of people's preference to be present in the real world, not isolated in a virtual world.)
Yeah, the only real benifit is being able to watch 3D movies, which does look really cool in VR, but then you can't watch it with other people (unless they have a headset as well) and it takes a while to set up and put on the headset.
i think bigscreen vr has a chance for pcvr users.
i have an index and my only real issue is the resolution and sweet spot isn't good enough for desktop usage or movies. a smaller sharper set that can sit on my desktop in arms reach is much more attractive
So you've tried using AR for productivity? How long do you feel comfortable doing it? Using AR as a PC monitor replacement seems like a promising use for the tech, but I can't imagine wearing a headset for an entire eight hour work day.
I did this with an original HTC Vive back in the day. Developed a full VR game in Unity on my PC, which I called "Nearly Headless Nick" because it didn't have a monitor attached. The only real problem was the pixel density. I got used to the weight of the headset after a while, especially when reclined (the chair takes a lot of the weight off).
I haven't before. the index isn't great for AR. I've tried using virtual desktop on index.
the resolution is the biggest thing holding it back. next would be heat and weight.
I'm hoping that smaller headsets like above are good enough to to work as a monitor replacement.
I thought Apple's announcement for AR would be something that is actually wearable like glasses as opposed to something so bulky.
For VR it is cool, but is actual AR glasses that are indistinguishable from normal glasses and don't require a seal around your eyes making you all sweaty still years off?
It's an expensive gadget for a niche audience.
For me its not so much that its a gimmick or whatever but that it just looks stupid on your face imagine being in public and seeing someone with a flight recorder strapped to their face i like VR technology and i think as it evolves itl change how we interact with media but this is just not it
The thing is. If you're in a tropical country.
Yes that's it. The sweat, the rashes. The smelly goggles from the dried sweat.
I see no practical use for me to use it, not knocking those who do, its just if im going to enjoy something like that id rather play a retro game on my laptop
I think it needs to be a set of glasses and we need better battery tech before that can really happen. Solid state batteries will be needed since their energy density is so much higher. As a low vision user i can think of an immediate use as a magnification device. Actual magnifiers dont work well for me but software magnification does. Therefore i could magnify my surroundings to read signs, etc.
I totally agree with this. I think Google was ahead of its time with Google Glass and I think something like that could catch on in a future where the hardware and software are more robust. Driving/walking directions, real time translation...some great potential for useful applications!
Lol i do remember this! Funny though that now everyone is recording everyone else in public and posting it online. The "glassholes" were tame compared to how people use their phones in public now.
Google glass was my thought too. It was just way ahead of its time, but google absolutely had the right idea
Not in it's current form. If/when the form factor gets to the point where it can fit in my glasses and not be very noticeable, absolutely.
I just want smartphone VR, not planning to buy a dedicated headset, just want to make use of what already exists and have wanted to try doing a VR desktop for a while using a phone
apparently there are problems with smartphone VR... but I presume them to be surmountable and that they're just trying to sell unnecessary VR hardware instead as a kind of gimmicky business move
Yeah that's not happening. The tech differences add up to a horrid VR experience. Google cardboard was exactly this project, but it was burned because it was just plain bad. Phones aren't meant to be glued to your face, but VR headsets are built for it specifically and the difference is immense.
Honestly what I want to actually catch on is something that I don't think the tech is really ready for yet, an AR device that is kinda like extra bulky glasses, and doesn't actually impede vision while having the flexibility that they were showing with this device of where you can put displays and how you interact with it
Considering this is apple though we'll see what direction they go, they are likely to get at least a large portion of people following them
I've seen many people comment and discuss that post-pandemic they miss wearing a mask in public. I know some people really hate wearing masks, but others felt it gave them more privacy and other benefits.
Musicians (and other "Joe Cool" characters) often like to wear their sungllsses indoors and at night
No. Especially if it is 100% proprietary.
No, but I like the idea of immersive VR & ai for learning
I'm wondering if it changes modes when you stand up or walk around? Still, I'm intrigued by this device that lets you essentially strap a MacBook Pro (M2 chip) to your face. Instead of using two physical monitors to edit videos, you can use two (or more) virtual monitors to edit videos. With the AR goggles, now you can edit on your couch or on an airplane or in the bathroom. Very powerful if it works well.
I would say no… BUT this is a start. I’ve games more on a Quest 2 in the past year than I did on anything over the last 5 years. It’s just more fun to me. I’m not even talking about expensive games, though I’ve enjoyed some of this as well. I play rec room paintball most of the time. It’s just fun.
Down the road, I can see something more akin to Google Glass once the tech catches up. Eventually, though, there will have to be some kind of external camera to capture the user. The first question I had when I saw the FaceTime demo was, what are the other people seeing? My guess is you’re locked to showing either an aviator or an Animoji - neither of which are very good options, IMO.
Sure it has an Apple tax, and I have a ton of questions about use cases and support (360 photos/videos is an obvious one/), but it did look cool as hell! Not necessarily $3500 cool, though.
Being able to walk around with a computer on your head is the second step in becoming a cyborg. It's going to happen O.O
thanks for using Leebra!
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Absolutely not. I've been completely shocked by the reception of this and feel like the positivity is 100% due to it having the Apple logo on it.
Who tf wants to wear a ski mask when working or watching videos? Not to mention it's got 2 hours of battery life. That's all without touching the $3500 price tag.
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