There’s plenty of video evidence to support the claim including one which emerged yesterday showing Russian soldiers rallying against their “lying commanders.”
Russian Troops Surrendering in 'Whole Groups’ Because of ‘Inhumane Commanders’
3 years ago by lusterko to c/Ukraine_UA
OpenStars 6 points 3 years ago
That's the thing, how do you help people who are dead set against helping themselves? The only explanation I've been able to find out, both from personal experience and also written in texts that are many thousands of years old, is that you cannot.
The USA came within like an inch of becoming an outright ally of Russia, probably we would even have sent some weapons or something. Hell, that might still happen in as little as like a couple years. I've heard reports - with pictures, even videos - that in rural places widely scattered across the nation (south, midwest north, etc.) people are starting to see 3 flags put up in prominent places: one USA, one Confederate, and one Russian (might be Hungarian sometimes). That's right, some people hear about what Putin is doing and approve, while others don't believe that Ukraine is even being invaded at all.
test113 0 points 3 years ago
Yeah, something similar someone told me (discussing MAGA heads): You can't convince someone they're in a cult if they're in a cult. Only two things reliably change someone's mind: time and death.
OpenStars 2 points 3 years ago
Fortunately there seems to be only ~11% of people on the extreme right side of the political divide, which is quite balanced against the ~11% on the extreme left end as well. That means then that there is ~88% of people somewhere in the middle... but bc of how our voting system works (it's electoral college, all the way down), they hardly matter.
Which is precisely the situation that occured in Nazi Germany as well, and their conquered nations, where the number of die-hards was quite small, but the enormous number of "collaborators" carried the day. As is happening now in Russia too.
The only thing required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing (also in the Bible, Proverbs 24:11-12), but Russia definitely takes the situation to new heights when "doing nothing" means picking up a gun and shooting civilians in some nation other than your own (the normal phrases describing that sound more like "invasion" than "merely defending" yourself). I mean, at some point you move beyond mere "collaborator" into "active participant"... and it probably happened way before the physical picking up the gun, as in voting for Putin in the first place, even after he made his intentions quite clear with Crimea so long ago. Putin is not in charge so much as the entire country of Russia is backing him to do precisely what he has been doing?
HuddaBudda 23 points 3 years ago
“For refusing to deploy on pointless assaults or for other offenses, some officers would strip them naked in winter cold and hold them in cold pits, beating them and threatening them with execution.”
How does Russia even have defense lines with these kind of tactics?
If I was forced conscripted from my home, force to die in a snow white field, and then beaten/shot at if I chose life.
I'd be fully honest.
I'd just buy my time until I could shoot the torturer in the forehead. If I am going to die while not being recognized as a human being, I would just act like a human being when the chance came.
Talaraine 11 points 3 years ago
Yeah I'm constantly confused by the idea that they could conscript 500k people who don't wanna be there, give them training and weapons, and they DON'T just take their officers out on day 1.
But I don't pretend to know any of the gritty facts of the situation either.
Deceptichum 2 points 3 years ago
It happened it ‘nam.
Let’s hope some Russians have a backbone and it’s just not getting reported.
Deceptichum 3 points 3 years ago
That’s not growing a backbone.
I want to see them fraggin officers or shooting up a military base.
OpenStars 10 points 3 years ago
Don't forget the brainwashing - all it takes is one fuckwit to give away the whole plan, so even if YOU are not, so long as THEY are you're screwed. And also the very real terror of what they will do to your family - even by dying you protect them, but by living via mutiny (probably followed by defection) it puts them at grave (if not certain?) risk.
Plus do not underestimate the power of going along with the crowd, even if you know it is wrong - that pressure to conform is HUGE. Studies do things like ask people what 4+3 is, with the answer delivered as a raising of hands and a whole classroom of plants (people being in on the study, knowing they are intentionally giving the wrong answer) and people will give an answer like "6" (rather than the true of one 7), presuming that they somehow missed something somewhere (rather than assume that EVERYONE who gave the incorrect answer is an absolute idiot), and just not wanting to stand out. In fact, this effect is apparently so powerful that I cannot be certain that even you or I, having been forewarned by knowing about these studies, still would not fall prey to it in some form or another where we may not as immediately recognize it in some new context.
Russia has centuries millennia of practice at what it is doing now.
nucleative 12 points 3 years ago
Fastest way to demoralize Russian troops: give the surrendering soldiers a warm place to stay, 3 square meals, a job, and immigration rights for the whole family.
When basic needs are met, people don't want to fight.
go to feed...
go to feed...
“We are f**king assault troops, we are not territorial defense and they just tell us now!”
Oh sweet summer child, of course they wouldn't tell you that on advance...
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