That post seems to be missing.
gelberhut 116 points 3 years ago

No. This will conflict with EU laws.

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randomaccount43543 52 points 3 years ago

Yup! Sideloading is legally required to be available by the EU Digital Markets Act by March 2024. Both Apple and Android must comply!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...

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OptimisticPrime 7 points 3 years ago

Does apple comply? Just asking as I do not have an iphone and was under the impression its not possible.

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goodbyespez 6 points 3 years ago

It is rumored that Apple will allow sideloading in the EU in the next big iOS update.

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Railcar8095 4 points 3 years ago

The las was recently paseo, shock be followed by march 2024

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Pika 2 points 3 years ago

side loading has always been available on apple Iphones, it's just been locked exclusively down to their developer program for debugging and testing purposes and said installed apps are only valid for a limited amount of time. I expect it will use the same framework that the dev program uses, just not as restricted. That being said i can forsee them region locking it.

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001100010010 25 points 3 years ago
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entropicdrift 15 points 3 years ago

Android is open source, and there are many forks of it already. If they were to try this, those of us who care would just run a fork of Android.

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JeffVanGundy 17 points 3 years ago

Assuming that there will be phones with unlockable bootloaders sold in the US in the future. There are precious few of them now. Importing's always an option (and quite easy these days), but then you run into the problem of band support.

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Tvkan 7 points 3 years ago

But the vast majority won't, and that's an issue.

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lightsecond 4 points 3 years ago

Burning a new ROM is just as hard fora regular user as jailbreaking an iPhone, so practically it doesn’t make a difference if android is open-source or not.

Also, even though core android is OSS, what you and i run on our phones heavily depends on the play framework which is Google proprietary. Amazon has tried and failed to fork android before with its fire devices and that hasn’t worked.

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bug 4 points 3 years ago

FYI GrapheneOS is trivial to install (you don't need to do all that exploit and root nonsense you used to have to!) and runs entirely without Google Play Services (unless you want to install them in a less-invasive way, which is also officially supported)

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gelberhut 7 points 3 years ago

EU laws (btw, afaik, India has similar requirement now) is one of the reasons which will make disabling alternative installation option very complicated if Google would want to.

I do not think it will want to do this, though.

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NightOwl 11 points 3 years ago

I love the EU.

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shitescalates 2 points 3 years ago

Hoe does Apple comply ,

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penguin_in_suit 14 points 3 years ago

Law comes into effect march 2024. Apple will need to comply then

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Drinvictus 3 points 3 years ago

Watch how they will act like it was their decision.

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Zak 2 points 3 years ago
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shitescalates -3 points 3 years ago

AFAIK they have no way of doing that. This would be a huge undertaking.

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T156 5 points 3 years ago

Doesn't Apple already allow side loading to some degree?

You can just put an app onto a iDevice through iTunes, without having to run it through the App Store. Apple even puts out a specifically outdated version of iTunes that still retains much of the App functionality.

It's not as though they're trying to build the feature in from scratch.

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Zak 4 points 3 years ago

Why would it be a huge undertaking? Allowing installing apps from package files obtained from anywhere seems like a trivial change to the software for a company with a lot of resources.

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Aftermath6187 6 points 3 years ago

They have until 2024 to comply

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whodoctor11 1 point 3 years ago
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Ganbat 1 point 3 years ago

Unreal Engine returns with a vengeance.

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gelberhut 0 points 3 years ago

Until there is US, until there is android, until there is google, until there are laws...

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whodoctor11 1 point 3 years ago
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MusketeerX 26 points 3 years ago

For "official" Android products, maybe eventually.

In fact I can see a future where all computing/devices are locked down and become appliances, much like your tv or fridge.

You use them how you're "meant to". Sideloading? Programming? Tweaking? Why do you need to do that, are you a terrorist?

I hope we don't get to that world, but for a while now I've been thinking it looks like a possible outcome.

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Hopfgeist 5 points 3 years ago

a future where all computing/devices are locked down

And who would mandate and control such a requirement? And how would it be enforced? And why?

The only reason Apple is locked down as it is, is that Apple as the only manufacturer has absolute control over architecture, hardware and software.

Being open will always be a unique selling point by at least some competing companies, so there will continue to be some, absent a dictatorship rigorously controlling the manufacture and sale of such devices. But I think not even China has managed to accomplish that. Open devices are an absolute necessity if you want research and technological progress. And if the industry needs it, some of it will inevitably become available to citizens, too.

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whodoctor11 3 points 3 years ago
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Hopfgeist 2 points 3 years ago

Sounds dystopian, but I can't find fault with your reasoning. Thanks for elaborating.

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whodoctor11 2 points 3 years ago
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THE_STORM_BLADE 25 points 3 years ago

Nope, Android itself is not restrictive, it's the extra add-ons by vendors that cause restrictions.

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Quill0 13 points 3 years ago

This is it.

I switched to Pixel phones ordered from Google. I can replace the software with whatever and not worry about breaking an eFuse warranty.

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001100010010 6 points 3 years ago
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Quill0 5 points 3 years ago

It's cellular providers who restrict bootloader locking generally. But you're right but that would go against the grain as the Pixel series are designed to be the flagship for AOSP

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confetti_8tVST5 1 point 3 years ago
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001100010010 2 points 3 years ago
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fne8w2ah 4 points 3 years ago

AOSP at the very least, but the average consumer doesn't really care much about Google Play Services or their Mainland China substitutes (obv cos great firewall).

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ScaNtuRd 24 points 3 years ago

As long as Android remains open-source, someone will always provide an alternative version if Google restricts the "official" OS

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6jarjar6 3 points 3 years ago

What other phones besides pixel, has an open boot loader?

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Claidheamh 5 points 3 years ago

I know at least some Xiaomi phones do. At least both of the ones I've had in the past were pretty painless to flash.

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ScaNtuRd 3 points 3 years ago

Good question. I believe OnePlus (or at least they used to), but I'm not sure.

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Socket462 4 points 3 years ago

I am using an OnePlus 8T and can confirm that, even if the bootloader does not come unlocked by default, it is very easy to unlock and flash and can also very easily go back (backup is needed because locking back will wipe the phone). Done myself.

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freddy 2 points 3 years ago

I have a oneplus 8t also. It was very easy to unlock the bootloader and install lineage on it. There's also the MSM tool that unbricks the phone as well. There's also a way to update the firmware without installing OOS, which is nice.

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WhoRoger 17 points 3 years ago

I was surprised when some recent Android introduced the option for non-GPlay apps to auto-update on the background.

Maybe it's just so that Google can avoid be called a monopoly, same with their support of Firefox.

EU also has some regulations in mind to force these vendors to allow installation of other apps, so we'll see.

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mobley 12 points 3 years ago

There will always be a fork of AOSP even if google ditches it the community will keep it up.

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03ari 12 points 3 years ago

It won't be possible since even Apple is considering the possibility of sideloading apps because of EU's competition policy legislation. If Google does the same, i guess they'll just take a pretty good fine again

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GeraltvonNVIDIA 12 points 3 years ago

No. Because if your write Software for Android you rely on the Android Debug Bridge (in short ADB). So it is an necessary part for debugging your Software. And ADB always allows installing New Software.

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Zephyr_0713 12 points 3 years ago

I don't think so, since that is one of the factors that makes Android "unique" as a mobile operating system since it gives you the freedom to install the app you want, it is in the official store or not

(sorry for my English)

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stappern 11 points 3 years ago
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phario 9 points 3 years ago

I used to root my Android phones. Then I stopped because all banking apps were disallowing launch if your phone was detected as having root.

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lka1988 6 points 3 years ago

People complain about this as if it's some sort of massive roadblock that nobody's solved yet.

Magisk Hide handles this and has been around for years. Venture around on the relevant XDA forum and SEARCH

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FrameXX 2 points 3 years ago

Can approve this. After each clean flash I just install universal safetynet fix module and enable zygisk. I am able to pass safetynet, it took my like 10 mins and I didn't need any super knowledge.

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catlover 3 points 3 years ago

yeah i wish there was a reliable way to fix this, last time i checked there werent any. also those apps didnt even show up in play store (ex.: revolut)

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KennyBell 3 points 3 years ago

I'm using revolut on a rooted device, no issues on 3 banking apps. Google Pay can be a hit or miss though, had it working a month ago but now it fails.

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Hopfgeist 3 points 3 years ago

Rooting your phone and unlocking the bootloader are separate (and mostly independent) things. E.g., by default, LineageOS is not rooted, but it requires an unlocked bootloader to install. Now, rooting without an unlocked bootloader is harder.

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HRYDJPCHNMNDGBLTFIYA 2 points 3 years ago

You can just hide root from those apps. I have everything working, even Google Pay.

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phario 2 points 3 years ago

Back when I looked into this, which was more than half a decade ago, it was a nightmare to figure out what worked and what didn’t. The XDA community is also hard to distangle.

Maybe it’s changed since then but I didn’t have the time to look into what worked and what didn’t.

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ghariksforge 7 points 3 years ago

I think this is Google's long-term plan.

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ThaijsClan 3 points 3 years ago

Actually you may not be too far off. Noticed recently that users don't have access to their Android>OBB or Data folders anymore through the normal files app. I know there is a workaround but I haven't been able to get it to work. This may not affect downloading/installing apk's from other sources, but if you have to manually install the OBB/Data you cannot do that.

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001100010010 3 points 3 years ago
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ThaijsClan 2 points 3 years ago

This is what I meant, thank you for specifying :)

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fne8w2ah 2 points 3 years ago

Solid Explorer has restored access to Android>obb and data folders since an update some time back fyi.

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ThaijsClan 1 point 3 years ago

Hm, doesn't seem like it works for me. Still says that the Folder is locked for my privacy and protection or whatever. Thanks for the trying tho

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LeHappStick 1 point 3 years ago

It is weird, I have a Redmi Note 9s and my phone comes with both a xiaomi files app and a google files app. I can't see the data or obb folders with the xiaomi one but I can read and modify them with the google app one.

So I assume this limitation is only for third party apps?

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FrameXX 2 points 3 years ago

So I assume this limitation is only for third party apps?

Indeed, system apps can work around these restrictions.

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reclipse 1 point 3 years ago

What version of Android are you on?

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LeHappStick 1 point 3 years ago

Android 12 MIUI 14, got the update a week ago, but it has been like that since Android 11 if I'm not mistaken.

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reclipse 2 points 3 years ago

*From Android 13

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MigratingtoLemmy 3 points 3 years ago

If you're talking about things like Google deprecating the two apps, then yes such things will continue. Google is slowly starting to sink (for whatever reason), and they are trying their hand at YouTube advertisements and Android.

But the source of Android is FOSS, and whilst Google does make up majority of the development efforts, if they were to close-source everything they would be causing massive ripples through the tech industry. I'm sure Samsung is going to try their (admittedly, very expensive) hand in court too if Google takes such a lick. So will Huawei and Xiaomi in the Chinese courts. Not to mention that Google benefits from the patches provided to Android from the FOSS community.

I don't think it's going to happen soon, if it does.

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Defaced 2 points 3 years ago

As others have stated, it will be illegal in the EU if that were to happen. However, it would probably cause issues with phone makers as well since they probably wouldn't be able to properly fork Android and slap their skins on top like ColorOS or Samsung's skin.

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AlcatrazBlaze 1 point 3 years ago
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Cryxtalix -2 points 3 years ago

Sideloading must always remain available, but I feel like restricting the ability to unlock sideloading might be potentially beneficial. There have been reports of people getting their bank accounts emptied after sideloading some random app and giving it accessibility permissions. Preventing people from granting such permissions on impulse with a more tedious unlocking process could potentially benefit some.

Of course people will disagree. Why should we be inconvenienced for some idiots? It comes down to how willing you are to be inconvenienced for the safety of these people I guess. I already know I'll probably be downvoted given the tech inclined crowd on lemmy these days, but I personally wouldn't mind performing an adb command or smth. Something like executing an adb command once is a relatively small price to pay imo.

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001100010010 7 points 3 years ago
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thanks for using Leebra!

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