cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/1376783
Thought I'd never see the day when Firefox would match Chrome on Speedometer.
There's also a few other benchmarks got a sizable boost. https://arewefastyet.com/
never thought about it, but I tend to concur
Yeah. A pihole sped up the internet for me big time.
They do, but Chrome is actively trying to remove support for most advanced ad-blocking capabilities. Further, Google has no financial incentive to make their browser hospitable to ad blockers as Google makes most of their money from advertising.
Google has pushed some half-baked ideas for how the web could work without having to block ads. Ad blocks aren't best buddies with Google.
Correct, but Chrome recently allowed ads through that weren't block-able by uBlock Origin or any other blocker at the time. That's when I switched back to Firefox, so I don't know if anyone figured out a way around it.
They do, but Google reduced their utility. Ads from YouTube get through my uBlock Origin, and I see ads in my search results. This was a fairly recent development, as maybe a year ago I didn't see any ads at all on Chrome. The day I got ads punched through my blockers, is the day I quit being lazy and migrated back to Firefox.
Google has no incentive to block ads when that's part of their revenue stream, so they nerfed third party extension's ability to actually work at intended.
Sure it does...
I rarely feel like the slowness of a website was due to the browser. I mean .4 seconds or .5 seconds does it really matter? I've been using Firefox since it was Firebird and speed has never really been a complaint. People need to measure and quantify everything.
What appeals to me about Firefox is how customizable it is, and all the extensions.
Same for me. Since I switched to Firebird/Firefox, no other browser has given me a reason to seriously consider switching.
Since Firebird, eh? That means you are responsible for my beloved Mozilla suite being ditched for this upstart.
Phoenix became Firebird which became Firefox.
No no people need to be forced to use Firefox. How else will they see the greatness?
I just need to give it another chance, I literally removed Firefox two weeks ago after a problem using video calls, buuut I'm always fing around with the audio setup so Firefox may not have been at fault. For real though I never knew there is a Wayland mode, I'm excited to try it
And enjoy your ads?
I switched to Chrome a few years back because Firefox kept deleting my bookmarks.
Been using Firefox for over 15 years, including weird open source custom forks of it, and I've never run into that issue. I've got bookmarks kicking around that I imported into FF from IE on Windows XP.
Not saying it didn't happen, but I'd hazard a guess that it was related to some bookmarks related addon you installed, or user error. Sorry you lost your bookmarks.
Normally I'd let you Google it, but given the topic
I wouldn't be surprised if Google is keeping certain performance enhancements closed source so they can have a competive advantage over the competition that uses the Chromium source. They have been slowly making Android open source worse by not updating parts and moving things to closed source Google Play apps.
So when Google removed don't be evil, they really meant it. It shows more and more each day.
"Who put this 'Don't' here? We'll just get rid of that!"
They didn't remove "don't be evil". It's still there today: https://abc.xyz/investor/google-code-of-conduct/ (final paragraph)
They're just build flags or compiler versions being different, no need to be melodramatic.
“We’re open source but not open source enough to your liking” is a VERY strange criteria for “evil” when most other commercial software companies are not open source at all.
~~Wild guess: APM? ~~
Edit:
It seems that chromium here on these benchmarks is unoptimized and it depends on what flags where enabled during building time: https://groups.google.com/...
So, a larger number is better for this speed benchmark?
I use FF to help keep the browser "market" competitive. We don't want to end up in the same situation as early 2ks where html standardisation was essentially "internet explorer compatibility", and if you wanted to use newer features as a web dev you had to put multiple implementations, one for IE, and one for the others, as in the browsers actually implementing the specifications correctly. Now MS didn't exactly do nefarious things with their market power, it was rather neglect, but it damaged the industry nevertheless. For Google, in today's market, I'd anticipate they would use it to make it very difficult to block ads etc. Internet will become less free.
MS didn't do nefarious things with their market power? They virtually killed all competition in the market.
Chrome is worse. Because Chrome isn't about having you use the browser, its about knowing what you do with the browser. Google already changes it's search page, for example, on mobile Firefox can't see the same sports results and league tables, and can't easily see the reviews of local restaurants etc.
It's inverted because on most occasions the y axis represents time, so less is better.
In order to not have bemchmarks where a lower result on the Y-axis is worse, they kind of invert it for scores.
I know it is confusing, but it helps non-technical people.
If you are on linux wayland, enable wayland mode for firefox and enjoy the huge performance boost
Sadly I'm using XFCE, and XFCE isn't ready for wayland, so I will keep waiting until wayland stable enough on XFCE. Other DE isn't suiting my taste tbh. well it's mater of preference, but XFCE is stable roboust DE for me to keep me focus on works
Good news: Xfce is working on Wayland support!
Bad news: We don't know when it will be done...
Crazy fact. Firefox, for me, has ALWAYS been much faster/stronger on YouTube than any chromium based browser I've used. Better than chrome on their own site. This makes it even better. I love this browser.
YouTube has been ok for me in Firefox, but other Google apps, in particular Docs/Sheets, always become very laggy after a few minutes. When this happens, it seems to affect the rest of the browser too, so other tabs that I have open slow down as well.
I've read somewhere that changing the user agent fixes your issue. It is intentional.
Google intentionally gimps what they serve to their competition to make them look worse. It's definitely an anticompetitive practice, and they're walking a fine line about it to not get in legal trouble.
There are a lot of things that "should be illegal" in the capitalistic dystopia, but they just aren't.
Great, now implement modern exploit mitigations and sandboxing like Chrome uses. Firefox is objectively less resistant to exploitation. Some Firefox security has improved since the article was written, such as some sandboxing on Windows, but it's definitely not as mature.
I'm not writing that Firefox is insecure. Security is very important to Firefox! However, Chrome has had more work done in the realm of browser hardening.
That is fair, but Chrome is undeniably more open to corporate exploitation. See things like the dramatically reduced utility of ad blockers on Chromium browsers.
I guess it depends on who you see as the greater threat at present.
This is why I use Firefox! For freedom.
As a security researcher, running each site in its own process isn't enough. Chrome has a much stronger multiprocessing model on most platforms. For example, Chrome on Android sandboxes between processes whereas Firefox simply relies on the built-in Android sandbox, which provides limited protection between these processes. It's much easier to break out of the sandbox in Firefox because it's easier to move laterally, for one. Those processes have to communicate with each other at some point.
But, don't believe me just because I claim any sort of credential on the Internet. It's such a difference in security that GrapheneOS strongly discourages using Firefox for its weak implementation in addition to the link I provided above. From the link:
Worst of all, Firefox does not have internal sandboxing on Android. This is despite the fact that Chromium semantic sandbox layer on Android is implemented via the OS isolatedProcess feature, which is a very easy to use boolean property for app service processes to provide strong isolation with only the ability to communicate with the app running them via the standard service API. Even in the desktop version, Firefox's sandbox is still substantially weaker (especially on Linux) and lacks full support for isolating sites from each other rather than only containing content as a whole.
I love Firefox. I use it anyway. It's not insecure. But it's absolutely not as secure because it lacks modern exploit mitigations. Running process per site is an improvement but it's still less secure than the architecture used in Chrome.
EDIT: Sound less entitled.
I can't speak for Android, it's long way to go for sure, but on desktop, it's great. And for Fedora PhoneUI / Phosh seems already working because it's linux ootb.
in short android not included I suppose. They have custom multiple process sandbox, but last time I enable it, it broke everything in nightly
@garam
Firefox is not that bad 4 android, not that brilliant either
@henfredemars
I think this is the page that the screenshot is from:
Lovely domain name lol
Why does anyone use chome, its way worse then any other browser you can install, they put so much junk on it.
Forced to with work.
I utterly hate it. I don't have it on my personal setup or android mobile - been using Firefox for twenty years now, not gonna stop!
Don't you have the option to use the Chromium Edge at your workplace? At least it has better features as compared to Chrome. My employer has all 3 of Chrome, FF & Edge installed but I use Edge over FF at office because they don't allow 3rd party extensions.
To be fair, internet Explorer used to be pretty good some time ago...
Nope, it's completely locked down by IT policy restrictions unfortunately.
I can use portable installs but last time I got found out I got a right bollocking!!
Financial org, so everything is very black and white when it comes to IT and security policy, although I did argue my way into having Notepad++
Firefox has been and will continue to be the best browser available
Is this for both desktop and mobile versions? Sorry if that is a silly question.
Chrome and Firefox are building iOS browsers that do not require the apple WebKit. Everyone, including apple, expect apple to drop that requirement soon to help avoid antitrust issues.
That’s quite good to hear, do you have any further reading that you know of?
Edit: here’s the top article from DDG - https://www.theregister.com/...
Definitely not Android. Firefox is unfortunately quite a bit slower than Chrome based browsers. I still use it as I don't really do much on my phone, but I hope they can optimize it further.
I use Firefox on android (specifically fennec f droid) and i use it since ublock origin can be installed and my fennec is hardened too
Here's what I see: https://i.ibb.co/g9yLrmp/image.png
And that's even considering the fact that Google deliberately throttles Firefox on their sites
Is that relevant for the benchmarks?
Google.com on Firefox Android is an inferior experience compared to Chrome. You have to use an addon that changes your user-agent string to get the same experience.
@lazycouchpotato @xthedeerlordx just use brave search or startpage instead?
I use DuckDuckGo.
Heard good things about Brave. Gotta remember to use it.
I have been using Firefox for basically as long as I can remember and I love it. However, there's one website that I go to Chromium for: GeoGuessr/Google Street View. For some reason it's unbelievably slow and sluggish in Firefox whereas it works normally in Chromium. Why could this be? To be clear, it's only the Street View part (and moving/panning/zooming) that's slow on GeoGuessr.
They were literally caught artificially slowing down page loads and responsiveness on non-chrome browsers a while back.
Do you mean the time when YouTube's UI was built using a pre-standardized version of the Shadow DOM API, and had to polyfill it in Firefox? If so, that was tech debt, not artificially slowing down page loads for Firefox on purpose. It was a tradeoff that let non-Chrome users use YouTube until they finally upgraded a year or two later.
If that's not it, I'd love to see what you're referring to.
Why is Chrome's performance so much better than Chromium?
I wonder how battery usage compares on a MacBook between these 2 and Safari.
Safari will always win because they are optimized to the HW and only for that HW...
Same as edge.. I do have some hack on Linux, but it sacrifice js capabilities and background pages, but achieve the same as safari in Mac or Edge on Windows
Firefox in general is faster for me than Chrome in many pages
However a notable exception are web games and web based game emulators. They're a lot slower on Firefox and i get horrible sound crackling whereas on Chrome its much better. It's been like this for years with no seeming improvement.
even when chrome was obviously faster, and was gaining in popularity, I still used FF. It's my preferred browser, and using it along with ublock origin makes going online more hassle free. Add to that multi account containers, reader mode, and just the general ability to customize it, I really can't see myself using another browser
Librewolf.
Lags behind on updates by a few days, which is a non negotiable for me. I use normal FF + Arkenfox User.js
I did not know about this option, I will investigate. Thanks for sharing
The only thing that kept me was YouTube performance. Once Firefox improved that I saw no reason to stay.
Remind me: Mozilla is the company that couldn't cope with ... building Mozilla. Right? #seamonkey
I stopped using Firefox because it had issues playing videos. I also ran into a number of web sites that were displayed badly.
I don't think site displayed badly is Mozilla problem, because there are web standard. If they don't follow the standard, it won't even show on anything I suppose, even chrome. But if in chrome it displayed neatly, then you need to ask to yourself, does that a website, or chromiumsite
Yeah but is Firefox dev tools still dogshit?
Uhmm... I am using both chromium and firefox, Firefox Dev Tools is superior imho.. I can't graps something like network stack freely or DOM checker freely in Chromium... so... I don't think it's bad, rather than bad, it's great for me for professional works.
Yeah... they still haven't added back live editing of JS. Their new profiler doesn't provide framerate graphs anymore. Nothing like Lighthouse on offer. Gotta keep a Chrome-based browser around for any non-trivial frontend work.
@lemmy.ml
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A place to discuss the news and latest developments on the open-source browser Firefox.
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@lemmy.ml
/c/firefox
A place to discuss the news and latest developments on the open-source browser Firefox.
Rules
1. Adhere to the instance rules
2. Be kind to one another
3. Communicate in a civil manner
Reporting
If you would like to bring an issue to the moderators attention, please use the "Create Report" feature on the offending comment or post and it will be reviewed as time allows.
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Speed almost doesn't matter for me, since Chrome allows ads and Firefox actually lets me use adblockers and privacy badger. The time wasted on ads are way larger than the time spent loading a page.
save