Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x05 "Charades"
3 years ago by ValueSubtracted to c/startrek
A shuttle accident leads to Spock’s Vulcan DNA being removed by aliens, making him fully human and completely unprepared to face T’Pring’s family during an important ceremonial dinner.
Written by Kathryn Lyn & Henry Alonso Myers
Directed by Jordan Canning
humania
My first time seeing this; delightful term hahah
I also can't agree enough with your observation about the human side as a lens through which to understand Spock and how he relates to those around him. Double points for noting the lack of quippiness in the vein of "Are we sure we want to fix him?" I hate that I need to praise that kind of restraint in TV / movie writing these days but, well, here we are.
As for my original contribution here:
I realllly liked the fact that while I'm sure I'm not alone in shipping TF out of Spock and Chapel, I feel like this episode went to decently robust character exploration such that the ending bit felt a lot less tacked on, or a writer's wink "for the shippers". A lot of that IMO rests on Spock's monologue at the end of the dinner. For just another layer of appreciation of that character moment.
Speaking of Community, I once banged Eartha Kitt in an airplane bathroom
Remedial Chaos Theory synced to Jeff hitting his head:
They're also doing a really good job of playing out the long arc of T'Pring and Spock having genuine affection for each other to the point where we're actually kind of going to be on T'Pring's side when she finally reaches the conclusion of "Man, fuck that guy"
Aha! I just noticed that the lead writer on this episode is Kathryn Lyn, who also wrote the best episode of Lower Decks to date: the incredible “wej Duj”.
No wonder I thought that Ortegas’ line about “Notice how I move my eyebrow but no other muscles in my face,” sounded like something Mariner would say.
Nice catch. Also, T'Lyn was introduced in "wej Duj" and was named of writer Kathryn Lyn. Seems like Lyn has a knack for Vulcans. According to Memory Alpha, she's a big Star Trek fan and cosplayed at conventions.
"This is irregular. A complaint outside the response period." - those aliens are Germans. 😄
Great episode. Just the right amount of whackiness to not make it too ludicrous. And it wasn't just comedy, at its core this episode had a human heart - no pun intended - with Spock connecting to his mother's burden.
One thing that I realized, once again, is that I don't really know what Una's job on the Enterprise really is. She's barely doing anything. You'd expect her to accompany the away team at the end of the episode (or did they steal the shuttle, now that they know how to steal the Enterprise). For an XO she's barely noticeable. This isn't a complaint about this episode, it's a thread that runs throughout the series.
To end on a positive note: can those costume designers finally get an award please? The outfits on this show are always so stunning.
Edit: I just realized that the episode was written by Kathryn Lyn who also wrote one of Lower Decks' funniest episodes, "wej Duj". She seems to become Star Trek's go-to gal for comedy.
The most XO thing that Una has done throughout the entire series run is question junior officers about Enterprise Bingo.
Seriously though as a former sailor I can verify that an XO's job is tedious and boring. It's all paperwork, inspections, and disciplinary crap outside of Captain's Mast (yet an XO does most the work for that before a CO sees anything). The bulk of Una storytelling that we've seen is pretty great. Ortega is the one who needs to shine at this point. She hasn't had much story development.
Edit: I just realized that the episode was written by Kathryn Lyn who also wrote one of Lower Decks’ funniest episodes, “wej Duj”. She seems to become Star Trek’s go-to gal for comedy.
Makes perfect sense when you realize that T'Lyn (named after her) was another passive aggressive Vulcan that provides comic relief was introduced in "wej Duj".
I loved the episode. Someone needs to make a Spock kicking the air GIF. I love that Spock has two hotties fighting for his attention. This was close to a hangout Trek. AND they were on a mission too! This episode felt so much like TNG. Again, Pike's hair is amazing. THE BEST PART: When Pike tried to escape the reunion of Spock and his future mother in law the damned door wouldn't open. Pike avoiding family conflict was the best running joke on the show. And LOVED that Pike wasn't the hero. Show is so good.
Much to my own surprise, I'm a complete sucker for this budding Spock/Chapel romance. I just want these two beautiful people to be happy together, damn it! We all know it's doomed, unfortunately, and I hope that whatever inevitably destroys it doesn't turn out to be too painful for the characters involved. Spock and Chapel are obviously not engaged in a romantic relationship in TOS, most obviously in Amok Time when such a pairing would have rendered the entire story trivial.
Someone mentioned in a previous thread that Spock's Pon Farr (seven years before Amok Time) is closing in. I was skeptical in that thread that they would choose to touch on it then, but the events of this episode do make that seem quite a bit more likely, if (again) increasingly difficult to square with Amok Time.
I don't know but what Amok Time was Spock's first pon farr. Vulcans age and mature more slowly than humans, right?
Its such a good way to write their whole dynamic! That its only when he's missing a part of himself that he feels emotionally accessible to her, but the part of him that's gone is part of who she loves as well. Its good, "nail the fundamentals" tragic romantic shit!
I really enjoyed this episode. The whole cast of SNW are really strong but Jess Bush has been a particular highlight - I'll admit I was cautious when I first heard they'd cast some Australian model as Chapel, but that caution was gone by the end of episode one and she's become easily one of my favourite characters. Ordinarily I don't tend to find that Star Trek romances do much for me but they've now got me invested in Chapel and Spock.
With hindsight my only mild criticism of the episode is the premise that a human Spock would be more emotional than the Spock we know. We constantly hear that Vulcans feel emotions more strongly than humans, but have learnt to embrace logic to control them - i.e. their nature is more emotional than humans but their nurture counterbalances this. So wouldn't a human Spock (with biologically human nature, but the nurture that Spock carries from his life experience being raised as a Vulcan) actually be super rational and logical?
The episode acknowledges this at the end, when Spock says Vulcans feel more deeply. What I think we need to remember is that Vulcans have mental capabilities humans don’t. Human Spock literally did not have the same tools available to him that Vulcans do. It’s likely why Spock has more trouble with his emotions than full-blooded Vulcans.
He also points out that human emotions are different. I assumed this to mean the the rhetorical tools he uses to control his Vulcan emotions are ineffective on human emotions despite Vulcan emotions being stronger. It's like having a vaccine for the flu, but still getting a cold.
That's a good explanation of it.
So wouldn’t a human Spock (with biologically human nature, but the nurture that Spock carries from his life experience being raised as a Vulcan) actually be super rational and logical?
I reasoned that whatever tools Spock employed failed for one of two reasons:
Vulcan responses to emotion are extreme: surprise isn't just surprise it's abject terror, happiness isn't just happiness but absolute mf hype, disappointment is more like a spiral of depression. Since human response to emotion is much more measured by comparison, he'd need time to recalibrate... time he didn't have.
The procedure that removed his hybrid nature removed whatever moderation was done to him. As a normal human he may not even have a katra anymore, so it's possible that whatever physiological changes that take place after kolinar aren't there because not all of the physiology is there.
By far the best moment was Pike's face when he noped out of the scene after Spock revealed the deception.
I laughed more times in that one episode than I have during hundreds of previous Trek episodes COMBINED. Trek comedy has never landed with me which makes this the best Trek comedy ever by a large margin. Angsty Spock and the crew's reaction to him were genuinely funny, with a special nod to Pike's "WTF" facial reactions in the background during the ceremony.
Going in spoiler-free and without having read people's opinions in this thread, I'm going to guess this is going to be one hell of a polarizing episode. But one I really enjoyed, so there's that.
I had so much fun watching this episode. Spock yelling at his mom in a beanie like a teenager fucking killed me. This episode was filled with so much potential meme material - I can't wait to rewatch it to collect screenshots.
This episode was so much fun!
I'll admit, reading the premise ahead of time (by accident because Liftoff app doesn't do spoiler tags yet oops) had me worried as I find a lot of attempts at "humour" in modern Trek tend to try way too hard and are just uncomfortable to sit through. But this was genuinely funny! Turns out Ethan Peck has great comedic timing, and Pike's background antics and reactions were fabulous. The dynamic between T'Pring's parents was a bit stereotypical but also extremely relatable.
Also really liked what they did with Nurse Chapel in this episode. Her pain and desperation helped balance the episode and make it something more than just funny hijinks. The feelings of regret and survivor's guilt, the desperate need to fix something that wasn't even your fault, grief over losing (at least partially, in this case) someone you love. So many complex emotions shown on screen at once, all by one character, and entirely believably, was not something I expected from a "haha funny Spock" episode.
After some further thought, I have to make the observation that I think T'pring knew something was wrong with Spock. There are a few things that T'pring does that indicates she knows that whatever Spock is going through, it's more than he lets on. The main indication, to me, is when she held his hand after pouring the tea, which has to be excruciating to Spock. She helps him while he's pouring the water to ensure the tea is properly steeped. She initiates the end of the Ritual of Awakening; interrupting her mother because the timer has expired. She defends the memory Amanda and Spock share. I love T'pring because, regardless of the circumstance, she stands beside Spock and defends him in the best way possible.
Unfortunately, by the time she realizes something is amiss, they are committed to the ritual and they cannot get out of it even if she would want to delay it. I still think that Spock, at the time, chose to not disclose his condition for good reasons. I'm still on the fence that T'pring would've accidentally revealed that during the mind meld with her mother. I'm still onboard that Spock made the correct decision, however I can say that he should of at least disclosed that something was amiss a little later on.
I agree with you. T'pring really shows a lot of care & compassion here, and I think it makes her decision at the end of the episode make more sense. We obviously know how this relationship works out in the end, but it really has me interested in how/if Chapel affects the outcome in further SNW episodes. (I'm choosing to believe T'pring hadn't already scoped out Stonn as a partner by this episode because that seems too cruel for her, but I guess we'll see.)
I mentioned in another post that I think T'pring, despite asking for time apart, eventually realizes that Spock omitting his current condition was entirely justifiable. I think she's hurt, but she then understands Spock's point of view (as logic would dictate) that omitting disclosure was the best path forward with the highest probability of success.
It's such a tragic moment because both their responses were reasonable.
T'Pring is about to be Spock's wife, and it's not simply a business union--she's very much in love with him. She's eager to be his partner and keeping changes in his life from her compromises that partnership.
The thing about Spock is that up to the end of the episode he's still wrestling with the isolation that being bi-racial has come with--he's aware that T'Pring should be let in but emotionally he's never come around to that, having grown up at odds with other Vulcans.
What saddens me is that if Spock had communicated how his status affects his approach to full-blooded Vulcans (indeed if had even known to communicate it), I have no doubt T'Pring would have been much more forgiving... alas we sometimes figure out ourselves too late.
I absolutely love the Kerkhovians holy shit. They feel like they've fallen out of a slightly different genre of Sci Fi than Star Trek normally goes for, like something from a Revelation Space or a Culture novel.
One of my viewing partners said "They only know humanity from call centers."
Like dealing with Vogon customer support.
Just curious, why are you @'ing? Is that a thing you have to do from a mastadon instance?
They're like GLaDOS if she was... decent.
Ethan peck looked like he had a blast with this episode, screaming into a towel is a mood
I also enjoyed the "subservient" dad who really just wanted to eat good food and play charades but was shot down :'( but then the captain gave him leftovers with a cool snap :)
Also, as a meta comment, I really dislike the scenes where it's clear they are just I don't of the LED wall. It looks so fake and the actors just stand there in an obviously empty room. Season 1 of SNW had at least one episode of this, and season 1 of the mandalorian did too, and they really need to follow the mandalorian example.abkut having actual physical props in addition to the LED wall to prevent it from looking fake as hell
Having grown up watching matte paintings, shaky plywood sets, bubble wrap monsters and people running up and down the same corridor repeatedly and then decades of soulless bad CGI I have nothing bad to say about modern productions standards. There is something special and human about the artistry of matte paintings, scale models and physical sets but I don't know that today's viewers have the same capacity for suspension of disbelief. LED walls allow some story telling that would otherwise be to expensive to visualise.
I think my problem was that the rest of the sets look so good with actual physical spaces that a empty wall feels....empty :P
Regarding the LED wall, yeah, it was more obvious here. It felt like they were entering one of those gimmicky project-Van-Gogh-art-on-a-warehouse-wall tourist traps.
The episode where Uhura and Hemmer were trapped in the engine room was another one that stood out.
Actually, I think they were in one of those places, given this post:
At first I was thinking, "I thought we had all agreed that we did not approve of hijinx" and I am totally unable to enjoy cringe humor. It doesn't make me laugh, just...cringe.
BUT it turned out that it was in service of advancing two of Spock's most intimate relationships and wow, that packed a punch. It was like, for us 21st century humans, the first time you looked at your parent and saw them as a fully fleshed-out adult with their own struggles, not just "mom" or "dad".
T'Pring was 100% right to feel slighted by Spock not confiding in her, though I don't think it was lack of trust on his part, I think it was more not wanting to have both of them in a situation where they had to deal with...hijinx. But that's what marriage is, committing yourself to another person first, always. And apparently Spock is not ready for that yet.
I thought the same thing myself. I do agree with Spock's motivation and the way handled it; I think T'pring's response of taking time apart is definitely emotionally motivated. As Spock mentioned that Vulcans feel more intensely than humans, assuredly T'pring (because she does truly love Spock) was quite angry and hurt he didn't disclose that he was human.
The time apart might be necessary for T'pring to realize that Spock's actions were the best course of action given the circumstances.
If Spock had used that excuse it might have seemed logical. I suspect that it wasn’t used because the writers needed a stronger motivator for T’Pring and Spock to take a break and using that reason explicitly would weaken T’Pring’s decision.
I can understand T’Pring’s hurt feelings. She’s been nothing but supportive of Spock’s humanity and his search for identity. She tolerates the long separations. She desperately wants the relationship to work, gets to know his friends and family and she even gives him tips during the tea ceremony like a partner is supposed to do. To her, they’re a team, but to Spock, she’s still an outsider who needs to be compartmentalized in favor of his shipboard family. Spock claims it’s because he wanted to protect her and to an extent it’s probably true, but the bottom line is that he doesn’t trust her to be helpful, and that’s not the way a partner behaves.
No wonder that himbo Stonn’s in like a shot.
I needed the laughs this week and it totally delivered for me.
Star trek always does this to me, they introduce some character or change to a character that I initially would not agree with but they always make me love them. I'm going to miss human Spock now.
When they said they were bringing the Kirk's into strange new worlds I thought it was a terrible idea, now I keep thinking how great a series with the new Kirk would be.
When seven turned up in voyager I knew it was because of sex appeal and the FHM magazine culture of the time so I was against it, now she's my favourite character and I cried when she was made captain.
Whe Pike and Spock turned up in discovery I thought that was a bad idea, now pike is my hero and I never want SNW to end and Ethan Peck is totally smashing it as Spock.
Human Spock? What a shit idea. But, I absolutely loved it.
I would not be opposed if episode five of every season of SNW involves Vulcan Hijinks.
I’ve seen a great amount of curmudgeonly criticism of this episode in other places.
Can’t understand it really. There really seems to be a contingent of fans that just don’t want to have fun.
That's exactly what it is. They have an extremely narrow and boring definition of what Star Trek is "supposed" to be, and revolt against anything that steps outside that, be it comedy, action, whatever.
Some of the criticisms fall in another category of beating on SNW’s alleged canon ‘violations’.
These include assertions that Chapel ‘isn’t the same person’ as she doesn’t have the same temperament/personality as in TOS, Uhura not having met or known of T’Pring before Amok Time, etc., Spock would have been ashamed to have eaten animal products (bacon), T’Pring’s ears have the wrong shape
While I can be quite critical of incoherence in plot threads or characters within a single show, especially in a single season (say in Discovery season two or every season of Picard), to me that’s a problem in how a set of writers are telling a specific story.
I’ve come to realize that the fans who just can’t get past continuity changes they can’t resolve immediately across the entire history of the franchise just aren’t going to enjoy SNW as much as I am.
I classify these inflexibilities as:
— not being open to the possibility that the characters may grow and change,
— not being open to the possibility of characters being unreliable narrators or saying things ironically in later shows (e.g., in TOS Uhura might tweak Spock about T’Pring to press him to identify who she is, even if she personally knew exactly who she was),
— refusing to accept that minor changes in timing, visual design, technology and characters are possible due to intertemporal interference as long as the Prime continuity maintains key/essential events.
In the end, hanging out here to have conversations with folks who are a bit more flexible is a better choice for me.
There's also another side to it which is that there's a very big difference in what TOS fans and TNG era fans would consider proper Star Trek.
I've always held the belief that SNW is very much a spiritual successor or prequel to TOS, and while TNG was a sequel in some ways to TOS it was a very different tone and style and it's some what jarring for people who never really got into TOS to accept as Star Trek.
People think that witty banter and quips were something new to SNW but TOS was full of them the entire relationship of the Trio was built on them, or the goofy scenes where someone would do something silly like Scotty getting drunk with comedic music etc.
This combined with as you mentioned above some slight alterations to canon drives people up the wall and it's just silly. Enjoy the show for what it is or just don't watch it.
Identifying potentially unreliable narrators is such an underrated strategy! So a character says "The Federation has never encountered this race/phenomenon before." Off to Memory Alpha to state this as fact! But of course, people state beliefs as facts, incorrectly, all the time in real life!
You’re fortunate to have missed the complaints elsewhere then. It really seems to be an episode that has very strong reactions, but isn’t outright controversial.
The reaction here seems overwhelmingly positive. Even the fans on old Trek BBS is mostly giving the episode high marks.
But the review by Trek tie-in author Keith Di Candido at Tor is quite critical, and that group of commentators seem largely to have followed.
The old sub has more than the usual quotient of nitpicks, but also enthusiasts.
Trek Movie is one of the few that takes the middle ground saying the episode ‘misses its mark’.
Good for Ethan Peck. It's like when Brent Spiner got to play Lore or Doctor Soong and express himself through other characters. Human Spock is basically another character. It would be nice to see him again some day.
Chapel killed Hupock. That monster!
It's funny how both Pike's and Uhura's first word with a totally unknown species is "Hi!"
You're Starfleet! Come on!
OK... they will have learned this lesson by the 24th century. 😂
I meant TNG. In the time period of TNG, it is the 24th century and they have learned the first contact procedure.
It's not wrong, but it's not the best approach. Hi is casual and usually reserved for people that are familiar with each other.
Go to a dignitary and greet with Hi. Chances are it will not be perceived as showing the respect that could - and likely should - be given. In a first contact setting, a formal approach is surely the way to go.
Maybe society just keeps getting less formal over time and by then "Hi" is one of the more formal ways to greet someone, as opposed to just "sup" or [suggestive eyebrow movement]
Doesn't seem likely. By the time Picard takes over, the Federation has gone to great lengths to get first contact right. I am thinking of TNG episodes like The Big Goodbye, First Contact, Who Watches the Watchers or Darmok as examples.
And to push this further, chronologically before SNW, Enterprise already put some effort into first contact beyond Hi. Cogenitor is just one of many examples.
I will try to resist using the Beyond opening scenes as a reference, because they were just ridiculous.
I keep watching this series and saying, see this is what we want. This was a fun episode that hit all it's marks, science and technology, social issues, and an awesome story.
Who is "we"?
Me and @YoBuckStopsHere
Me and @siewyuk, @psychothumbs and @YoBuckStopsHere
The Kherkovians remind me of my worst customer service experiences. I bet Yellow and Blue aren’t even their real names, just aliases to mask the rep of the day.
I’m also convinced they have to be connected to the Bajoran Prophets somehow. A transport tunnel? An interdimensional liminal space? Come on!
The Vulcan comedy of manners was hilarious, especially the Awareness ritual, which is basically every thing your in-laws hate about you but told to your face with no pretense. Pike trying to get them to play charades was a little too on the nose, I think, right up there with “You’re astronauts on some kind of Star Trek.”
I was half convinced the mind meld would turn out to be a TAS: “Yesteryear” reference. Not gonna lie, felt a bit let down. They’re also really teasing us with this Korby stuff.
I also thought the reason Spock didn’t tell T’Pring was because he thought there was a risk T’Pril might pick it up during the meld.
While I enjoy them, I do hope the zany episodes don’t always revolve around Vulcans. As funny as they are (and teaching Spock how to talk like a Vulcan was gasping for breath funny) I don’t always want them to be the butt of the joke.
The main thing I disliked is that it kinda of removed any chance of us getting a "Spock is split into his human and vulcan halves by a transporter accident and they totally don't get along with each other" episode down the line.
Because they can always do it better the second time. Like Time Squared and Cause and Effect are both time loop episodes, but Cause and Effect is way better.
Ok, bit they could still do a transporter accident where Spock gets merged into one being with, say, an annoying alien from the Delta quadrant.
we have already seen human Spock and Vulcan Spock battle, though. Although it was a dream.
So... what was up with the door in the transporter room slamming shut in Pike's face when he turned to leave Amanda and Spock? lol
Yeah! I was wondering that too. Either it was a flub that they left in because it was funny, or it was a flub that they left in because they didn't have another good take, or it's a breadcrumb for a weird AI-takes-over-the-Enterprise season finale.
Yeah. Pike kept trying to avoid the family conflict the whole episode. Seeing the door shut on him and him trying to wave it open was comic gold. He was probably thinking, "what the hell? This is my ship!" then he just stood there looking awkward. Gold.
I love this show. I actually like every character in it, which is rare for me these days. Cannot wait for more.
Things I liked: Ethan Peck and Mount have some great comedic chops. Many funny lines throughout, generally enjoyable.
Things I did not like: Never been a fan of altering Spock's backstory with T'pring. Chapel doesn't even know that Spock was engaged in Spock Amok. Please stop the T'pring stuff, also maybe it's time we saw some Spock instead of all this funny stuff.
The entire part where Chapel has to explain her feelings to an alien felt juvenile and stupid.
Overall an ok episode.
This comment was removed because it was not constructive.
This comment was removed because it was not constructive.
My last comment was deleted because it wasn't constructive enough. Let me try to remedy that.
I completely agree that the confession part was not done in a way that fulfilled it's possible potential. It felt forced and rushed. It was such a prominent plot point that had been built up for a while. IMO it would have been better for her to talk to a friend like Uhura who knew what was going on anyways. This could have made for an intimate character development moment. Like so we had more of an "alien of the week" moment.
@StillPaisleyCat
I'm genx with an elder sibling that watched TOS during it's initial broadcast, so I grew up on a steady diet of Trek, loved TNG when it started and am loving SNW so far (still in s01).
A couple of choices have gotten the old single raised eyebrow, but less "that ain't canon" and more of a "huh, that's a cool twist" kind of way.
Whatever they're doing with Trek these days, I'm eating it up. Lower Decks, too, for what it's worth.
This comment was removed because it was not nice.
In a good way, they took a lot of scifi things that have been done in other trek and remixed them into a very good episode. It had shades of Voyager's "Faces", DS9's "You Are Cordially Invited", Data getting his emotion chip in generations. These are things we've seen, but explored in new and pleasing ways.
I feel like these bread crumbs of context to "Amok Time" are going to make a classic episode better, but for a lot of newer fans there could potentially be no pay off if TOS can't hold their attention.
Some fan discourse I've seen on mastodon suggested "oh look there's the AR wall" like its some kind of bad thing, but I don't see this as any different to saying "oh look CGI character" we all know it, you don't need to point it out.
The AR wall stood out to me more on Rigel VII, where the background, while beautifully done, just had that empty, standing in the middle of CGI look. In this episode, it made sense for it to be obvious. They’re in a space humans can’t truly perceive, much like the celestial temple, and it had a sterile feel that seemed right for the chatbot aliens.
I was disappointed they didn't spend more time on the scene at the end where Spock reveals to T'pring's mother that he was actually human while performing their precious ceremony. Really wanted to see him yank that Vulcan rose bush that woman had up her ass!
As much as I enjoy seeing the asshole Vulcans be taken down a peg, I really want to see more of her husband. He was laid back and expressive, so I thought there was going to be a twist with him. I hope he comes back later. He may be one of those Vulcans that gets the whole, "logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end," thing.
Yes, agreed. He seemed like a genuinely decent individual from the brief time he had on screen. But you could tell that even he was terrified of his wife's behavior. Poor guy! Imagine being married to someone like his wife... 😱
Ooh! Maybe they could do an episode where comes back to get help from Pike, Spock, and T'pring because he's looking to divorce that demon of a Vulcan wife?! Lol.
Poor guy! Imagine being married to someone like his wife…
Bold of you to assume that her domineering personality isn't exactly what he likes about her.
We definitely didn't get enough of his reaction to the human reveal.
i would absolutely buy an official one of these
This guy doesn't have the lobes for Starfleet apparel.
A few thoughts on the rewatch:
Chapel having to explain her feelings for Spock to the alien was kind of a teenage show thing. BUT the more I think about it the more I realize that TOS had aliens with simple, sometimes pure, goals. So I think these aliens fit right in with ST.
The "ancient alien" line may not age well. They are usually very careful not to put references to our time due to it not dating well (Musk, Stacey Abrams). I've heard it mentioned on Shuttle Pod show that the actors could not change a word of dialoge to protect the show from sounding of our time. Of course the joke of using that phrase will fade so maybe it's OK.
What was that bit about Pike's girlfriend looking for Dilithium? Was it a joke that went over my head? Could someone explain?
What was that bit about Pike's girlfriend looking for Dilithium?
Pelia, the new engineer, is out looking for dilithium - not Batel.
It was previously established that Pelia and Amanda are friends.
I agree about reference to our time, but the Lorca's Musk line works because he's from the mirror universe. I'm not sure that's what the writers intended, but I'll take it.
They were referencing to the meme and history show Ancient Aliens. Nyota.
Whyyyy would Vulcan kitchens run cooler than starships? Vulcan is a desert planet and Vulcans as a species are accustomed to high temps -- which is even obliquely referenced in the ep when Amanda says that a Vulcan wouldn't even notice the heat from holding a boiling hot teapot barehanded. I would assume Vulcan kitchens to be higher temperature than even Vulcan living quarters, which should be higher than human-standard room temp. I can't think of any legitimate reasons why a Vulcan kitchen would be cooler than Pike's quarters at all, let alone so much cooler that it makes a manifest difference in fermentation rates.
The Last Unicorn Games Star Trek RPG Sourcebook The Way of Kolinahr posited that Vulcan food is more delicately flavoured than human food because of the species' enhanced sense of taste. That's why Tuvok found Neelix's spiced up version of plomeek soup (VOY: "Faces") not to his liking.
I've often thought that foods from tropical climes on Earth tend to be spicy because chili peppers are anti-microbial and so it keeps food edible for longer. Similarly, salt serves a preservation function in more temperate climes. But if neither of these options are available to Vulcans because they would find the flavour too intense, then Vulcan kitchens (and pantries) might be designed to be cooler rooms just to keep food fresher for longer.
Speaking of freshness, it seems to be a necessary part of Vulcan foods. In ENT: "Home" we are told that gespar, a Vulcan fruit, may not taste good if it isn't fresh, and in this episode T'Pril complains the halak is not fresh (and salted). The emphasis on freshness may be borne out of a climate in which food spoils quicker.
For food preservation? It's only logical.
Schpackel
Asking the hard-hitting questions.
SpockH
I surely got some nods to Bender becoming human in Futurma season 4. The bacon eating scene, surely a Matt Groening reference to Homer's love for pork, and Bender went wild on nachos and hot dogs.
Same! The only thing missing was a cigar in his hands!
Annotations up at https://startrek.website/post/353200
So I'm not really the biggest fan of the episode. Felt a bit too obviously like mid-season filler or something. Though I didn't hate it.
But what I actually really appreciated about it, reflecting on it just now, is that I don't think it was predictable, like at all. You couldn't quite tell if the episode was going to go full comedy, or romantic drama or some whacky sci-fi stuff with the wormhole aliens.
And I think that might be one of SNW's strengths (?) A sort of comfortable and maybe confident fluidity around the tone and style it's going for in any episode and at any point in time.
Felt a bit too obviously like mid-season filler or something. Though I didn’t hate it.
As far as I'm concerned, the weakest parts of the show were the parts that tried the hardest not to be "mid-season filler": creating and resolving the doctor's insane daughter-in-transporter-buffer situation, trying to set up a future "big bad" situation with Sybok, etc. I was very concerned from Alex Kurtzman's description of this current season many months ago that they might have learned the wrong lessons from the first season, but thank goodness that they seem to have stuck with what made the first season good: brilliantly executed character driven episodic storytelling.
future “big bad” situation with Sybok
For real though, wtf happened with that mic drop reveal. Not that I'm complaining; I don't feel particularly excited to learn about another previously-unheard-of Spock sibling.
Then again, the amount of times Sarek's name was dropped in this episode is probably a clear breadcrumb that this storyline is coming sooner than later.
No its great. I love them bringing Sybok back so much. Its so stupid. Its the goofiest decision they could have possibly made and it embodies something I love about Star Trek, which is its refusal to throw away even the bad stuff. Every reminder that Star Trek V is canon keeps the franchise from getting too arrogant about itself.
I would guess that if we see Sarek in this series, it's going to be either purely through another character's view, or just mentions. It's many years off still before Sarek gets over Spock's decision to join Starfleet, and starts talking to him again.
Kinda sad we didn't get James Frain back as Sarek for this episode. I could kinda see him bumping into Chapel and reminiscing about how the Vulcan Science Academy was absolutely awful to his 1.5 human kids.
Remember that Sarek is not speaking to Spock for another like 18 years or so
LOL Vulcan food and air must do wonders for human biology.
I really don't understand why they have to do this whole Chapel/Spock thing. :( I like T'Pring more.
Maybe it's finally time for Star Trek to boldly go ... for polyamory.
Giggity Giggity and some feelings for La'an.
Because it's been a thing since the '60s
To be fair, TOS didn't really go hard on Spock+Chapel, but even being a doofus kid, I shipped it.
EVERYONE shipped it. Erotic fan fics have been around for a LONG time.
Of course, most of them involved Spock and Kirk.
@ValueSubtracted they really decided to bet everything on this Spock - Nurse Chapel thing, haven't they? Not a fan.
Nice comedic episode nonetheless.
I can't be the only one that felt Ethan Peck's human Spock was very similar in tone to Ezra Miller's Barry Allen...
Not in a bad way, either.
T'Pring's pop wins the award for chillest Vulcan and most loyal malewife.
Please make sure your language settings have BOTH "Undetermined" and "English" selected. That is the culprit 90% of the time.
Where all the comments
I had to go to my settings and click English to see them. Apparently I just had Undetermined. (I hope you can see this!)
looks like it's a particularly horrible intentional design decision
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r/startrek: The Next Generation
Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...
Maybe a little slash fic.
Rules
All posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.
It is important that everyone from newbies to OG Trekkers feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.
All posts/comments must be factually accurate and verifiable. We are not a place for gossip, rumors, or manipulative or misleading content.
If a polite way cannot be found to phrase what it is you want to say, don't say anything at all. Insulting or disparaging remarks about any human being are expressly not allowed.
Utilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episode. There is no formal spoiler protection for episodes/films after they have been available for approximately one week.
All submissions must be directly about the Star Trek franchise (the shows, movies, books, etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/Quarks.
Questions and concerns about moderator actions should be brought forward via DM.
Upcoming Episodes
| Date | Episode | Title |
|---|---|---|
| 08-20 | SNW 4x05 | "Level-Five Transporter Accident" |
| 08-27 | SNW 4x06 | “Off-Hour” |
| 09-03 | SNW 4x07 | “Like Chronitons Through the Hourglass” |
| 09-10 | SNW 4x08 | “Orders of Magnitude” |
| 09-17 | SNW 4x09 | "Once La’An a Time" |
Wondering where to stream a series? Check here.
go to feed...
@startrek.website
r/startrek: The Next Generation
Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...
Maybe a little slash fic.
Rules
All posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.
It is important that everyone from newbies to OG Trekkers feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.
All posts/comments must be factually accurate and verifiable. We are not a place for gossip, rumors, or manipulative or misleading content.
If a polite way cannot be found to phrase what it is you want to say, don't say anything at all. Insulting or disparaging remarks about any human being are expressly not allowed.
Utilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episode. There is no formal spoiler protection for episodes/films after they have been available for approximately one week.
All submissions must be directly about the Star Trek franchise (the shows, movies, books, etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/Quarks.
Questions and concerns about moderator actions should be brought forward via DM.
Upcoming Episodes
| Date | Episode | Title |
|---|---|---|
| 08-20 | SNW 4x05 | "Level-Five Transporter Accident" |
| 08-27 | SNW 4x06 | “Off-Hour” |
| 09-03 | SNW 4x07 | “Like Chronitons Through the Hourglass” |
| 09-10 | SNW 4x08 | “Orders of Magnitude” |
| 09-17 | SNW 4x09 | "Once La’An a Time" |
Wondering where to stream a series? Check here.
go to feed...
I thought this episode walked a really fascinating line in its approach to exploring the lived experience and cultural significance of mixed identities. Having the ancient alien species misinterpret Spock's Vulcan DNA as an anomaly/pathology was a risky move from a writing perspective given the potential for reproducing language and ideas associated with eugenics. But doing so allowed what what I thought was a more robust examination of Spock's character and his relationships, by way of separating one half of his identity from the other and seeing what happens (like a smaller scale of Community's excellent "Remedial Chaos Theory," which examined how the study group might be affected by the temporary removal of each group member in turn).
There was plenty to laugh at, of course. Ethan Peck could easily have gone too over-the-top in playing Spock's surge in human emotions, but I think he threaded the needle really well in allowing through just enough Vulcan "muscle memory" (as it were) to tamp down the humania -- and he still managed to be extremely funny. And Anson Mount as always shined with his subtle (and hilarious) comic timing as the host of the engagement ceremony. Watch the way he snaps his fingers when T'Pring's father asks for more Tevmel --and how he continues on in wide-eyed stride on his way back to the group once Spock starts admitting to his "condition." Mount is a performer who knows how to blend into the scenery rather than chew it -- a distinct quality in a Star Trek captain and a consistently funny one to boot.
But what really made this episode work for me was the heart in addition to the humor. I have a friend who remarked earlier this season that she doesn't understand why Star Trek is so obsessed with Spock's human side; she's much more attracted to his Vulcan side and is confused at what she sees as the constant efforts to make him "more human." I can see her frustration, and this episode certainly turns into that skid a bit. But the show isn't fantasizing or daydreaming about a Spock that's fully human -- it's using the idea as a tool to understand his fuller and more complex identity, and to celebrate what makes Spock Spock. And I absolutely shed tears when Spock came clean to T'Pring's parents about his condition, not just out of personal pride but as a way to express affection and appreciation for his human mother. What a wonderful moment.
And I think this episode's true strength was in depicting how everyone in Spock's life understood that being made "more human" didn't make him better or more "fun" or more "relatable." Not once did anyone murmur to anyone else something like, "Are we sure we want to fix him?" (which I could easily see Dr. McCoy saying, for example). Instead, everyone understood fundamentally the unique value of Spock's half-human/half-Vulcan identity, and went to great lengths to bring it back. It might have been a bit corny to funnel that through Nurse Chapel's romantic feelings for him, and having her have to admit those feelings to an ancient alien species -- but it was smart, too. (And seeing her tell the Vulcan Science Academy that she didn't think their fellowship was ready for her made me literally pump my arm, by the way).
Another solid Spock-centric episode in my book. I look forward to reading what everyone else thought!
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