Linux users failing to respect trans Linux developers

2 years ago by corbin to c/techtakes

Sorry, no sneer today. I'm tired of this to the point where I'm dreaming up new software licenses.

A trans person no longer felt safe in our community and is no longer developing. In response, at least four different forums full of a range of Linux users and developers (Lemmy #1, Lemmy #2, HN, Phoronix (screenshot)) posted their PII and anti-trans hate.

I don't have any solutions. I'm just so fucking disappointed in my peers and I feel a deep inadequacy at my inability to get these fuckwads to be less callous.

self 110 points 2 years ago

jesus fuck

it’s not particularly gonna help or even make me feel better, but I’m probably gonna reopen that first Lemmy thread a little later and just start banning these awful fuckers from our instance. nobody attacking Asahi has a god damn thing to say to any member of our community.

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SnotFlickerman 26 points 2 years ago

o7

Thank you for your service.

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FRACTRANS 8 points 2 years ago

💜

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BlueMonday1984 8 points 2 years ago

o7

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BigMuffin69 7 points 2 years ago

o7

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dgerard 90 points 2 years ago

MOD NOTICE: we're not putting up with debate club rubbish in this thread. If you don't have the reading comprehension to understand the problems with those threads, you shouldn't be posting here.

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mii 61 points 2 years ago

I hate it so fucking much that a non-trivial number of FOSS communities have become hostile nazi bars in the last years (or maybe they always have been and I've just not noticed it before).

Why would anyone shit on Lina of all people? She's such a nice and wholesome person and her work is exceptional.

Fuck these asshats.

Also, from that one Lemmy thread:

What fascists are ruining OSS?

LOL! Lmao even. Just input Linux into the YT search bar and you have roughly a 50% chance of getting fascist content.

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Zero22xx 39 points 2 years ago

maybe they always have been and I've just not noticed it before

As someone that was a 'nerd' back in the day before Big Bang Theory made 'nerds' cool, I'm gonna say that they always have been and you just haven't noticed before.

The nerd / tech crowd have always been a bunch of miserable little sexists and dorks with a superiority complex. And half the time that little Timmy got stuffed into a locker or dunked into a toilet, he fucking deserved it. And to me, it's really no surprise that they're homophobic and transphobic too.

If Big Bang Theory was actually accurate, Howard and Raj would be prolific posters on incel forums that whine and gatekeep every time the girls come over and then later whine about being lonely, and Sheldon would be borderline nazi. Not sure about Leonard because even without changing anything about the show, he's still the only half decent one of the lot.

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athairmor 14 points 2 years ago

I’d like to see a Venn diagram of computer nerds and incel, goth, trans, nazi, furry, hippy, punk, etc.

There’s a lot of diversity and I’d guess it would have some correlation with area of expertise.

I never got the sense that FOSS was particularly incel/anti-LGBTQ. But, tech support, maybe.

Would make an interesting sociological study.

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3dmvr 3 points 2 years ago

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sc_griffith 22 points 2 years ago

the subtext here that ppl at prestigious universities are less likely to be misogynists... it's not correct

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3dmvr 2 points 2 years ago

The subtext is anyone educated that pursues higher education are less likely to be incels and have more human interaction, id include community college, which is free in california for the first two years if you qualify

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3dmvr 0 points 2 years ago

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ShakingMyHead 0 points 2 years ago

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TrickDacy 1 point 2 years ago

Just input Linux into the YT search bar and you have roughly a 50% chance of getting fascist content.

Can you think of an example of the type of content you mean? This is surprising to me.

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db0 57 points 2 years ago

Wow, those phoronix forums have really turned pure fash, haven't they?

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otter 34 points 2 years ago

From one of the comments in the screenshot

Those comments are sickening, what is wrong with you people?

Almost no one else but the woke hunting crowd is here, as there's little moderation and everyone else left

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Feyd 18 points 2 years ago

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ebu 49 points 2 years ago

i've heard it said before from people better at wording it than i am, but seeing this: it's crystalizing for me that people really do see "a trans woman" as "a woman i'm still allowed to abuse". i can call her mannish, i can tell everyone she's making it all up, i can call her hysterical and dramatic, i can freely speculate on her mental state to the approval of my peers, and no matter what she does -- leave loudly, leave quietly, stay and suffer the torment -- it will always be her fault and she will always be doing it wrong

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V0ldek 10 points 2 years ago

To be fair, many men see every women, including cis, as one they're allowed to abuse and all the other things you mentioned. And then it'll be her fault for being "hysterical" or something similarly dumb.

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ebu 5 points 2 years ago

it's the same playbook, to be sure

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SnotFlickerman 41 points 2 years ago

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Why are people so fucking trash?

I don't even smoke or drink and I need a fucking bottle of whiskey and a cigarette.

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veganes_hack 25 points 2 years ago

not on topic at all, but this thread once again makes me appreciate awful.systems as the sane corner of the internet that it is. just no tolerance for bullshit and great values. i wish i could just take that for granted, but it's become exceedingly rare. thank you <3

and lol to all the shitheads thinking they can spew their shitty "opinions" on how people feel

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dgerard 6 points 2 years ago

🍻

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BananaTrifleViolin 23 points 2 years ago

So I'm not seeing much on the Lemmy posts, presumably the mods have cleared those up already?

I get why you're disappointed, but there has also been a lot of push back against the toxic and hateful behaviour which is a positive thing to see.

Its important to remember the toxic people are loud and obnoxious but they are a minority. The majority needs to keep pushing back against the hate and push the values we share in the linux community of equality, fairness and respect among many others.

Unfortunately though, aside from trying to make our communities safe and welcoming spaces there is limits to what people can achieve. No one in any community can stop bad actors harassing people outside the community on social media, or obtaining and sharing their personal information.

Linux communities are not the specific problem - we do not exist in isolation. Its society that is a mess and particularly now in the US where the political tide has turned so toxic and negative. These hateful people currently feel they have licence to be hate.

All we can do is push back against the hate everyday, and show our support and value community members like Lina. Its very sad they do not feel safe to continue working on the projects they worked so hard on. But they need to see and know how much we appreciated and valued their contributions and that they belong in this community. The hate filled bigots do not.

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PanArab 21 points 2 years ago

You would think someone has to be somewhat open minded and accepting of diversity to use FOSS. Life is full of disappointments. Sorry to see her go through this.

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swlabr 18 points 2 years ago

I did not know about this (though I am not surprised): many of those threads mention a particular fruit-based website or forum dedicated to doxxing, harassing, or marring the reputation of people they don't like. While I won't speculate as to the involvement of that site with this situation, it's just another shitty thing that exists that I now know about.l

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froztbyte 22 points 2 years ago

I found the other day that the fruit site is once again going on semi reliable hosting and I nearly punched my computer as a result

absolutely fucked that it persists

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LostXOR 2 points 2 years ago

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swlabr 9 points 2 years ago

It’s not the orange site
It is “fruit” + “agricultural term”

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LostXOR -5 points 2 years ago

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swlabr 9 points 2 years ago

So close! The correct answer was: “Got it, thanks. Yikes, those people at the fruit site.”

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Jayjader 9 points 2 years ago

I think the fruit in question is hairy, has brown skin, and green flesh.

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merthyr1831 16 points 2 years ago

Phoronix needs to shut down their comment section it has always been a cesspit of morons

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istewart 11 points 2 years ago

Yeah, Phoronix is somehow a tier below even below HN. The Gamergate freaks of Linux enthusiasts. At least on Slashdot or HN, you might occasionally get someone with actual technical expertise posting. Phoronix just seems like a playground to push whatever the latest "I got this software for free and I hate it" grievance is, which is a profoundly pathetic thing indeed.

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Irelephant 13 points 2 years ago

On the hn thread, so many green names.

Gotta say, lemmy seems like the only sane place when it comes to minorities and linux development.

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Soyweiser 6 points 2 years ago

Sorry what is a HN green name?

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gerikson 11 points 2 years ago

A very new user.

It's basically free to create a HN account, it's not tied to email or anything like that.

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Soyweiser 4 points 2 years ago

Thanks!

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Irelephant 9 points 2 years ago

very new user. Hn accounts have a really low barrier to entry.

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Soyweiser 4 points 2 years ago

Thanks!

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flamingos 11 points 2 years ago

I assume the second Lemmy link is suppose to go the .ml thread and not p.dev, as that comment section seems fine?

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rumschlumpel 5 points 2 years ago

You linked a feddit.uk thread instead of a lemmy.ml thread.

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flamingos 10 points 2 years ago

I linked to a feddit.uk view of a post in !linux@lemmy.ml because I was being lazy.

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rumschlumpel 1 point 2 years ago

Strange.

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Muaddib 6 points 2 years ago

If you want to find out whether Lemmy users are transphobic, ask them what Drone Rights did wrong.

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easily3667 10 points 2 years ago

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Muaddib 5 points 2 years ago

A trans person who was mean to people who misgendered them.

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easily3667 -3 points 2 years ago

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self 7 points 2 years ago

you should’ve stayed in the other thread

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Shanmugha 5 points 2 years ago

Sad as hell. Maybe dropping dev work was really best thing to do (I currently can't even open those links), I only wish they get enough support to not drop what they are. As little as it is, they have my heart

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yonder 3 points 2 years ago

How do you not have respect for someone who writes software, and then makes their hard work freely available to you? If someone doing significant FOSS work does not earn your respect, I don't think you're capable of respecting other people.

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rumschlumpel -1 points 2 years ago

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self 17 points 2 years ago

The phoronix screenshot is the only one that contains open trans hate, though

Pretty much proves that it is the „anime alter ego” of the guy. My god, the times we live in.

and if you think the orange site is at all safe for trans people, that tells me everything I need to know

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curbstickle 7 points 2 years ago

What's "the orange site"?

I don't have any interest in seeking out people being shitty, so I don't want to hunt through the links to figure out which site you are referring to.

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self 25 points 2 years ago

once upon a time a guy named paully sucked at lisp, but most people couldn’t tell so they figured he must be good at it

then he made a website that was an ugly orange color, and everyone assumed it was ugly on purpose even though every web site paully makes is ugly and barely functions under load

then paully implemented moderation structures on the orange site that both cloak and enable discrimination and bullying, and everyone figured that couldn’t be correct because the orange site said it had good moderation

and now paully’s godawful startup accelerator is run by openly fascist little freaks and all it does anymore is AI, but the orange site says it’s prestigious and not at all a multi-layered affinity grift

the moral of the story is fuck paul graham

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curbstickle 12 points 2 years ago

Thanks! I don't think I've ever gone there from more than a headline and out, but given the type of people who would be into a "startup accelerator", seems to fit that it would be a bunch of shitty takes on... Just about everything.

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dgerard 9 points 2 years ago

Hacker News, one of the sites this specific discussion community is about, per the sidebar

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curbstickle 9 points 2 years ago

Got it, thanks!

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Jesus_666 -2 points 2 years ago

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atro_city -1 points 2 years ago

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self 18 points 2 years ago

Yeah classic attention seeking behaviour. Just say you’re stopping work on it for personal reasons, or give details. The only reason to tease gossip like this is because you like the drama.

hey fucker I found one of those toxic posts you don’t seem to be able to see

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GrumpyDuckling -5 points 2 years ago

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froztbyte 8 points 2 years ago

just because you don't get it doesn't mean it's incomprehensible - only that you're lacking

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GrumpyDuckling -7 points 2 years ago

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qaz -3 points 2 years ago

I don't see any comments when viewing the Lemmy links, am I missing something?

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self 15 points 2 years ago

yeah, apparently you’re missing all of the comments

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GrumpyDuckling 2 points 2 years ago

???

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1984 -9 points 2 years ago

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swlabr 10 points 2 years ago

Is it that you can’t read, or won’t?

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dgerard 15 points 2 years ago

the poster has been helped to post elsewhere

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swlabr 8 points 2 years ago

Thanks! I hadn’t checked in to see their reply before it was deleted, so I rooted around the modlog and surprise surprise, transphobia!

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1984 -3 points 2 years ago

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techtakes

@awful.systems

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Big brain tech dude got yet another clueless take over at HackerNews etc? Here's the place to vent. Orange site, VC foolishness, all welcome.

This is not debate club. Unless it’s amusing debate.

For actually-good tech, you want our NotAwfulTech community

go to feed...

techtakes

@awful.systems

login for more options

Big brain tech dude got yet another clueless take over at HackerNews etc? Here's the place to vent. Orange site, VC foolishness, all welcome.

This is not debate club. Unless it’s amusing debate.

For actually-good tech, you want our NotAwfulTech community

go to feed...