As an American, I support both.
as Russian assets, they would qualify
Agreed, do Trump next! Although, we should do Russia first, as I think what will turn up during that investigation is going to be... very relevant.
It's more likely he'll get assassinated even though it won't save democracy in the US.
Why would he do that?
Putin is getting everything he wants from Trump.
- Diplomatic support against Ukraine.
- Captured & subverted Russia's historical enemy, the GOP
- Wrecked the trust of all of the USA's allies (except Israel, go figure).
- Devalued the dollar in a week.
- Upended the global trade system that was "rigged" against Russia.
- Attacking the same outgroups (LGBTQ, minorities) that Russia attacks.
- Causing the upcoming food shortage in the USA via deportation & ending subsidies.
- Quiet quitting NATO.
Just watch, by this time next year, Trump will have replaced timber from Canada with timber from Russia.
Por que los dos?
How about Nuremberg style trials for the Trump administration all USA administrations in the last 50 years?
Now this is the galaxy brain response right here 😉
YES!
I’m guessing Trump would be against that as well.
Yep, we clearly can't get the job done ourselves. It's time for the grown-ups to intervene.
How about for the American government in general?
100%!!!
The tin-foil hat person inside me is screaming that Putin directed Trump to destroy the economy and all our alliances. If he manages to fire Powell, I think he's accomplished his goals in less than 100 days.
It looks so obvious that this is what is happening it's crazy.
It’s completely insane that so many people are in denial about this. It’s clear as fucking day that that’s what’s happening right now.
"It's not paranoia, if they really are out to get you."
Why, what have you heard?
Its not tin-foil hat, it's Putin. Its always Putin, using Skum and HitlerPig as his muscle.
When will people truly internalize that the two biggest foreign Sociopathic Oligarchs, have partnered up with the most prolific traitor in American history? None of them have any loyalty or patriotism toward America, and only see us as a big, rich, fat, lazy target to be ruthlessly exploited and looted, and it's happening in real time before our eyes.
All they care about is money, and either Putin is paying them directly out of the Russian Treasury (HitlerPig would rape and murder his own mother for far less than a billion bucks, and Putin could order a lot more than that), or they've cut a deal to split the booty like the pirates they are.
Do Israel, USA & Germany next
shipping people to a concentration camp in el salvador without any due process sounds like a violation of many laws to me.
You know what's freaking terrifying?
I use Nextdoor on occasion (a social media app specifically for localized neighborhoods), because it helps with safety or lost pets or something occasionally...
...but lately there's been some tesla vandalism going on, and there's SO MANY comments like "Give them 20 years" and "Send them straight to El Salvador." and "Domestic terrorism!"
I used to resent isolation and lack of community...but now I really don't wanna meet my neighbors anymore...
I want to believe a quieter majority of us aren't cool with shirking due process and shipping U.S citizens to foreign prison camps, if that wasn't bad enough, for property damage of all justifications...but geeze.
I want to believe a quieter majority of us aren’t cool with...
After the results of the last election, I cannot delude myself any longer. We're surrounded by fascist, imbecilic weirdos I'm afraid. The only thing we can do at this point is become louder and hope to pull defectors into our ranks.
There also is some amount of hope that can be obtained by the fact that this is a very large, very disorganized country that contains all kinds of people. That'll make ruling over all of us with an iron fist practically impossible to pull off. Unless, of course, we allow it.
I'm not ok with shipping anyone to foreign prison camps. There's zero reason why we should ever do that, with exception of a valid extradition request from another country.
Oh 110% agreed. Big time.
I can even understand if it were a bit of debate, for the very worst offenses or something. (Not that I'd agree, but I can understand people debating it.)
I think I was more aghast at how people were frivolously suggesting gulag camps without the slightest moral ponderance over....
(Flips pages)
....Keying off some car paint...
Suburbanites can be a special kind of evil.
Israel kills more civilians in Gaza in two a days than Russia kills in Ukraine in a month.
(Edit: checked the numbers and in 3 years Russia had killed 12,605 civilians whilst the last reliable numbers we had in Gaza - before the hospitals were destroyed - for the first 6 months in Gaza were 42,000, so the rate of civilians murdered per day by Israel is about 20x higher, so not quite "more in a day than in a month", hence my edit)
Russias killed far more than 12k, its well recorded there are mass graves in places such as Mariupol with a unknown number of bodies. The UN itself has specifically verified at least 30k and given the numbers of missing persons its likely to be in the hundreds of thousands.
Stop regurgitating Russian propaganda numbers.
Russias killed far more than 12k, its well recorded there are mass graves in places such as Mariupol with a unknown number of bodies. The UN itself has specifically verified at least 30k and given the numbers of missing persons its likely to be in the hundreds of thousands.
Stop regurgitating Russian propaganda numbers.
From your own link, under "Millions displaced, thousands dead": "30,457 civilian casualties since 24 February 2022, including 10,582 killed and 19,875 injured" (emphasys mine).
I actually used a larger number I found in a different website (but I lost the link for that) because that latter article was from a later date and had the numbers for 3 years of war.
Apparently and in your own words, the UN is "regurgitating Russian propaganda numbers".
Whatever motivates you to post this, it ain't a need for Justice or an abhorrence for the murder of civilians.
The fastest way to tell if something is the right thing to do is to ask whether or not Orange Julius Caesar opposes it.
You need one of those even more for Israel, but the British political elites are active and willing accomplices in that specific Genocide.
One rule for some, another for others...
Hypocrisy is very much the core trait of the British upper classes.
No because Brits are involved in Israels genocide and can be held accountable.
Britain is not involved in Russia's invasion nor supporting their war crimes.
Nah, last I checked I thought Russians kidnapping of Ukrainian children was abhorrent which is the subject matter of this post. The constant Palestine supporter "but what about xyz" is nonsensical, all genocides are disgusting and the fact action is being taken even on just one of them is nothing but good news. Dont let perfect be the enemy of good.
Look mate
- "Russia bad and Israel bad" would be the Principled, Humanitarian stance.
- "Russia bad" whilst not only these people do not deem Israel bad, but they're actually sending weapons used to murder civilians in Gaza, is just Propaganda. It's not a principled stance, it's like Greenwash but for Humanitarianism: using the words of Humanitarianism on the things were it happens to align with your goals whilst doing the very opposite when it doesn't.
This kind of performative "Humanitarianism" and "International Rule Of Law" actions (hardly a monopoly of the Brits but, damn, they're some of the biggest practitioners of the whole thing) heavy on the is what reinforces outside the West the impression that the words of Western leaders are bullshit and cannot be trusted.
This kind of haughty proclamations but only applying some not others, actually weakens the principle of International Rule Of Law and overall makes it less likely that Justice in such affairs actually happens.
Do you believe that your messaging helps the people of Palestine? is this the best way you can think of to gather international support for a cause that is dear to you?
I am positive. Your message is not accomplishing the goals that you want. Unless you wanted to further isolate the Palestinian people from the care of the rest of the world, maybe tone down the rhetoric a bit. It’s coming off quite psychotic like someone who would support kidnapping and torturing and raping and you know all the things that they do in Palestine to LGBT people
I believe that a real, strong and fair International Rule Of Law would help Palestine and that the two-weights-two-measures kind of Propaganda used of performative "International Rule Of Law" detracts from it Globally being real, strong and fair.
I don't think a performative demand for "Justice except if the perps are our mates" from the most hypocrite country leadership around will advance the cause of International Rule Of Law even when it comes to the Russian invasion of Ukraine because it just reinforces the impression outside the West that the "Justice" of the West isn't really Just or even honest - it's a great way to (as is it's only real objective) to get kudos from a certain crowd that abhors what Russia is doing whilst not having a tendency to look beyond the superficial in a skeptical way for even the words one agrees with, but comes with the secondary side effect that people in all those nations out there which are not aligned in this specific subject just become more suspicious of Western words and motivations and hence less likely to cooperate.
Such performative statements for local political gains neither advances the cause of Global Humanitarianism nor the cause of International Rule of Law, probably the opposite.
Such idea would much better be voiced by a different country (say, Spain), not one practicing the very opposite of what it preaches and with quite a long tradition of being double-faced.
Why not just throw Britain in your imaginary tribunal as well. Didn’t they place Israel in their territory and start the war 80 fucking years ago. Are you going to try Hamas and Iran for the crimes against humanity too or is that just fine in imagination land?
Wonder why they are holding trials for the war crimes which their own politicians are not involved in, and not for the genocide which their own politicians are involved in.
Who gives a shit if Trump is in opposition when they (we, I’m American) are purposely fucking up global trade?
Lol you have to win first. Holding trials in absentia of a sovereign nation with no teeth is meaningless lip service. Fight back and win first, then you can pat yourselves on the back bringing justice.
Let’s go UK.
Lol at Trump thinking he can treat the world however the fuck he wants all while keeping the good will and soft power we have spent the decades since WWII building. What a damn tool, we are not getting that soft power back for years now after his escapades, if EVER
"Despite?" Should be "in light of"
This is just propaganda - how objective will this tribunal be when you know what kind of "wars of aggression" the UK, Israel or the US have done and are still doing?
And no this is not whataboutism - it's about truthfulness and moral standing. Invasion if Iraq and Afghanistan, decades of foreign policies, occupation and oppression of Palestinians, meddling and regime change of countries. If it's only a crime of aggression if the other side does it, then it's simply a farce or a show trial that will not prevent future crimes of aggression.
You are first and foremost responsible for your own actions. And only then responsible for holding others responsible.
Just to avoid catching ire for adding nuance, I want to preface everything by stating that the nazi regime was obviously a criminal scourge upon humanity, and it's perpetrators entirely irredeemable. If the nazi regime was ever falsely accused of anything, it will always just be irrelevant little details, in the face of the sheer bulk of provable horrors committed by them, their collaborators, and the weight is on the shoulders of everyone within their borders, who was of legal age and sound mind, and who didn't do anything to resist.
With that out of the way, the descendants of the Allies should stop swallowing the propaganda of their forefathers raw, and instead try to take an honest, critical look on this part of their past.
The fact of the matter is, the Nürnberg trials were a farce, more a show trial and a kangaroo court, of Victor's parading around the defeated, conducted on a legal basis that didn't exist, with many punishments (executions) being violations of the inalienable human rights that were soon after proclaimed by the victors, as an encodification of the core values that they claimed to espouse.
The trials were a mockery. Surely, it would have been possible to prosecute and punish anyone deserving of it, by the laws of the pre-1933 Weimar Republic, which, contrary to popular belief today, was not abolished in a legal manner in the first place, and so would still have jurisdiction.
Anyway, the Nürnberg trials are an awful ideal to shoot for - especially when we today finally (and fairly recently) have managed to establish a proper International Criminal Court, with authority and legal basis to dispense real justice against the perpetrators of crimes against humanity. Recognise that court, and insist on it carrying out justice. When you ignore thst court in discourse, and choose to hold up an 80 year old mock trail as the standard of justice, that just makes it all the easier for any future victor to quickly carry out their own kangaroo courts, executing based on what's politically convenient, while slowing the path towards a legal world order.
That's a very good take too. I just saw this video Why Justice for Ukraine AND Russia Goes Through South Africa which has another interesting take - that admission of guilt and confessing the truth towards the victim is sometimes better for reconciliation than a trial that is about the court prosecuting and the accused defending, denying and finding excuses. But I doubt that either is realistic in the near future.
I'm not sure what your point is frankly.
You are first and foremost responsible for your own actions.
So you think countries should recognize and punish themselves for "being the bad guys"?
Do you see any country as having the "required moral standing" to judge others?
So you think countries should recognize and punish themselves for “being the bad guys”?
I think people and journalists should be educated and informed so they can see it for the theater it is. If the people of a democracy can't see the evil their own countries have been doing or do not have the means to change anything, then those leaders pointing the fingers at others for the same shit becomes nothing but a distraction.
Yeah, okay. Totally not gonna be surprised when I see you get posted to !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
EDIT: Also that's a curious reaction to getting called out. All you had to say was "I'm not a tankie, I'm sorry for using their rhetoric" and this whole thing would've been cleared up.
Two countries didn't sign that agreement. Who cares what the US and israel think about it. However just like a low functioning sovereign citizen I hope both current leaders are subject to that court despite their disbelief in it validity.
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How about Nuremberg style trials for the Trump administration?
save