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Big naturals is way easier to pronounce

a year ago by weird to c/memes

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wellbuddyweek 85 points a year ago

Actually, those are not the same. Natural numbers include zero, positive integers do not. She shoud definately use 'big naturals'.

Edit: although you could argue that it doesnt matter as 0 is arguably neither big nor large

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yetAnotherUser 67 points a year ago

Natural numbers only include zero if you define it so in the beginning of your book/paper/whatever. Otherwise it's ambiguous and you should be ashamed of yourself.

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wellbuddyweek 8 points a year ago

Fair enough, as a computer scientist I got tought to use the Neumann definition, which includes zero, unless stated differently by the author. But for general mathematics, I guess it's used both ways.

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Zwiebel 50 points a year ago

Natural numbers include zero

That is a divisive opinion and not actually a fact

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kogasa 5 points a year ago

Yeah, it's a matter of convention rather than opinion really, but among US academia the convention is to exclude 0 from the naturals. I think in France they include it.

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SchwertImStein 3 points a year ago

positive interers with addition are not a monoid though, since the identity element of addition is 0

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kogasa 3 points a year ago

Okay

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davidagain 2 points a year ago

They're not a complete algebraically closed field either, but I don't see you advocating for including e - i in the natural numbers!

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lengau 0 points a year ago

Yeah I find it easier to just accept the terminology of natural numbers and whole numbers so we have simple names for both.

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errer 31 points a year ago

Big naturals in fact include two zeroes:

(o ) ( o)

Spaces and parens added for clarity

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Jerkface 20 points a year ago

(0 ) ( 0)
You can't fool me.

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Quadhammer 9 points a year ago

(o Y o) solve for Y

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bampop 2 points a year ago

When enclosed in parentheses I believe the correct term is "bolt-ons"

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peregrin5 13 points a year ago

Depends on how you draw it.

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stebo02 1 point a year ago

Strictly positive numbers, Z0^+^, don't include zero. Positive numbers aka naturals, Z^+^ = N, do.

Edit: this is what I've learned at school, but according to wikipedia the definitions of these vary quite a bit

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davidagain -3 points a year ago

Natural numbers include zero

Only if you're French or a computer scientist or something! No one else counts from zero.

There's nothing natural about zero. The famously organized and inventive Roman Empire did fine without it and it wasn't a popular concept in Europe until the early thirteenth century.

If zero were natural like 1, 2, 3, 4, then all cultures would have counted from zero, but they absolutely did not.

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SchwertImStein 7 points a year ago

american education system moment?

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davidagain 1 point a year ago

I think round the world, children and adults start counting from 1. It's only natural!

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SchwertImStein 2 points a year ago

I think about this in terms can I have of something (indivisible), and sure enough I can have 0 apples (yeah, yeah, divisible), bruises, grains of sand in my pocket

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Atlusb 48 points a year ago

Also in an aqueous environment, they become floating point values.

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hungryphrog 23 points a year ago

Gandalf's large positive integers

Like that?

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weird 13 points a year ago

Oh wow. Do we have a lemmy community for that?

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gay_sex 10 points a year ago

be the change you want to see!

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BuboScandiacus 22 points a year ago

Large nonnegative numbers*

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Tenkard 18 points a year ago

If they're big the zero is skipped anyway

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Jankatarch 7 points a year ago

Just write it bigger.

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jxk 7 points a year ago

Thanks for the comment - - I will fight for recognizing zero as a natural number

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BuboScandiacus 4 points a year ago

In mathematics, the natural numbers are the numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, and so on, possibly excluding 0.[1] Some start counting with 0, defining the natural numbers as the non-negative integers 0, 1, 2, 3, ..., while others start with 1, defining them as the positive integers 1, 2, 3, ... .[a] Some authors acknowledge both definitions whenever convenient.[2] Sometimes, the whole numbers are the natural numbers as well as zero. In other cases, the whole numbers refer to all of the integers, including negative integers.[3] The counting numbers are another term for the natural numbers, particularly in primary education, and are ambiguous as well although typically start at 1.

Sauce

So it is undefined behavior, great

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calcopiritus 3 points a year ago

Yes. Some mathematicians think that 0 is natural, others don't. So "natural number" is ambiguous.

In order to avoid ambiguity, instead of using fancy "N", you should use fancy "N0" to refer to {0,1,2,3,4,...} and "positive integers" to refer to {1,2,3,4,...}.

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outhouseperilous 3 points a year ago

Zero indexed gang, yes

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Bakkoda 2 points a year ago

If your array doesn't start at zero I'm not sure we can be friends.

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FiskFisk33 2 points a year ago

sure, but a large one?

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miss_demeanour 22 points a year ago

Big Naturals Are More Pronounced

ftfy

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AngularViscosity 18 points a year ago

Don't get me started on the unnatural and supernatural numbers.

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Lifter 10 points a year ago

Sound made up, like imaginary numbers.

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Jankatarch 3 points a year ago

I mean all numbers are made up when you think about it.

Also unrelated but natural numbers are closed under multiplication (by pure coincidence) while imaginary numbers are not.

This means natural numbers make worse examples when learning about sets.

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deltapi 3 points a year ago

Made me think of how everything is base 10, even octal or binary.

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usualsuspect191 18 points a year ago

I don't care if they're big, as long as they're real

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southsamurai 11 points a year ago

I don't care if they're real, as long as I can manipulate them

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driving_crooner 7 points a year ago

They're Real, and they're fantastic.

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Madison420 6 points a year ago

You like big figures and you cannot lie?

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surewhynotlem 4 points a year ago

Imaginary ones are useful too.

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Bosht 15 points a year ago

This actually got a chuckle out of me. Prob the first number related joke I've laughed at.

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Karyoplasma 11 points a year ago

That's true OP, "big naturals" are indeed very pronounced.

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zjti8eit 11 points a year ago

I like naturals, but more than a mouthful is kind of a waste. ;-)

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Jerb322 3 points a year ago

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regdog 9 points a year ago

I googled "Big Naturals". Result number 16 was this:

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xeekei 8 points a year ago

Should've been number 1.

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ATS1312 8 points a year ago

Natural Numbers ≠ Integers though.

In spite of that, I'm chuckling. Math can be funny sometimes 😂

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MBM 18 points a year ago

Positive integers are (a subset of) natural numbers

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ewenak 5 points a year ago

Why a subset? They're the same thing right? I guess it could be about the zero?

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SchwertImStein 7 points a year ago

you answered your own question

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ewenak 3 points a year ago

Well what I learned in school was that zero was both positive and negative. I knew some people consider the natural numbers don't include zero, but I didn't know for some zero isn't even positive.

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very_well_lost 1 point a year ago

Identical sets are considered subsets of each other.

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ewenak 1 point a year ago

True

But I don't think they would have said "a subset of" if the sets were identical.

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OhStopYellingAtMe 7 points a year ago

I just say “big’uns”

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isekaihero 6 points a year ago

big badonka-donkadonks

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Ledericas 5 points a year ago

we like to see those Double negative intergers.

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NaibofTabr 3 points a year ago

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psx_crab 3 points a year ago

Be glad it isn't Positive Integers Venti

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kamen 3 points a year ago

Why, would anyone at all think about something else?

/s

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BmeBenji 1 point a year ago

I like natural more as well because numbers aren’t real and claiming otherwise is just blue-balling all the nerds

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