Lemmy is not a good space for women or a women's community.

a year ago by SharkEatingBreakfast to c/WomensStuff

This is a women-only discussion community. If you do not identify as a women or fall under the umbrella cited in the community sidebar, then please refrain from posting or replying.

We're fighting a losing battle. This is a space where we are very clearly not wanted, and we cannot discuss women's issues without hostility.

Keep it limited to makeup and fashion, I guess, unless you want to be brigaded!

I'm over it. Let the boys have their playground. Lemmy is not a space that is welcoming to women, and, because of that, unless sweeping changes are made, I just don't see myself ever recommending it to any women as a good place to make a community.

I'm not going to contribute to its growth or content any longer. "PROGRESSIVE" space. Garbage. Absolute fucking hypocrisy. I'm so sick of having to explain myself and be made to feel like I need to justify my existence here.

Good luck, sisters. I'm desperate for community, but this feels more like a battleground than it does a home.

We appreciate the sideline supporters who respect the community rules & expectations and are respectful enough to not interject. You are very much loved and respected, brothers. 🫶

EDIT: This community & its moderators have been nothing but kind & respectful to men who post here, and are constantly shit on & downvoted because of it.

I have resorted to being hostile! And I see very little difference in how this is being received compared to them.

My blood pressure too high rn.

EDIT 2: Mods.. I'm sorry for leaving you to find this dumpster fire of a thread! I gotta go to bed and I'm sick of trying to explain things to people who don't actually care or want to understand.

Women: attempt to foster & curate their own community to talk about women-centric issues and experiences without being drowned out by majority voices

The rest of Lemmy:

BCsven 67 points a year ago

I can't speak to all of Lemmy, it is woldwide, but my limited interaction has found there are positive groups, even ones you don't expect: There's the "dull men's club", they accept women. (They have thought about altering the name) Its a place to share boring stuff and everyone upvotes and tells you they are proud of you for the daily task or acheivement you posted.

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MystValkyrie 52 points a year ago

It's frustrating. It feels like even progressive men here (not all, but many) aren't willing to listen, while making it all about them. And because of the vast male majority, it feels like most threads on womens' issues consist of off-topic defensive comments. I don't recommend Lemmy to women either.

That being said, you're all worth it. Reddit as a whole isn't what it once was. And womens' Reddit communities tend to have lots of people, which can sometimes lead to negative spiraling when bad things happen. I get it, but it would make my mental health worse.

On Lemmy, it's a small, friendly space much like the old internet. I recognize a lot of the same folks on these communities. We uplift each other.

Lots of people here can very hostile about us being here, but we're making this place a little friendlier and more inclusive, and I'm glad we're all here. We've got each other's backs.

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ZDL 15 points a year ago

It feels like even progressive men here (not all, but many) aren’t willing to listen, while making it all about them.

I mentioned this in past messages that got deleted (not by the mods here).

But basically this is what women's groups in uni were like for me when they tried inviting "allies" from among male students. These well-intentioned (I have to stress this, they were not being jerks deliberately!) men would come to meetings and by the end it was only the men talking.

It's just in the nature.

This is why we went back to "women-only" groups with occasional "open house"-style gatherings which were just social events.

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LadyButterfly 47 points a year ago

Hey Shark, you have absolutely nothing to apologise for. Not a thing. Your post was basically:

You: I don't feel safe on lemmy because there's so much hostility towards women Manosphere: Y R U NOT INCLUDING US?? STFU U MISANDRIST! STOP EXISTING WITHOUT MY PERMISSION!! MEN R BEING OPPRESSEEEDDDDD!!!11!!

They really refuse see the connection between their behaviour and our actions. I really understand your points Shark. There's aggressive comments to and about women all over lemmy, I've had Manosphere types attack me outside of here cos I created this group. It's horrible and I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Know you've got your own army here backing you up💜

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pixelkitty 36 points a year ago

You may have better luck having it hosted on Beehaw.org. They're dead serious about keeping it a friendly community. They'll ban the shit out of trolls lickety split.

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oftheair 22 points a year ago

Sadly Beehaw doesn't allow its users to make communities.

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pixelkitty 8 points a year ago

Oh dang, I didn't know that. :(

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oftheair 33 points a year ago

Yeah, closest we have found that does allow community creation is the one we are on: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/

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mugthol 20 points a year ago

I see that you're also on blahaj but I just wanted to second your recommendation. I've been using this instance since my first day on lemmy and I've had a great experience with the instance and its admins so far. Everybody loves Ada and for a good reason.

I'm not LGBTQ+ myself but it was important for me to chose an inclusive instance and I'm glad I made that choice

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Alice 2 points a year ago

They don't ?

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ZDL -2 points a year ago

I just did a search on Beehaw local for the keyword “China”.

Somehow I don’t see it being any more welcoming than any other site I’ve seen in the … well, Fediverse actually. The western left is not a whole lot better on that topic than the western right.

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will_steal_your_username 30 points a year ago

Might I suggest https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/ ? We have very active mods and admins and we have a pretty good track record of removing misogyny and other forms of bigotry.

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foxglove 14 points a year ago

I support moving to Blahaj as well ✅

Pros:

only upvotes (no more harassment through downvotes)
Ada has already banned lots of bad actors from the instance, so moderation will be easier
Blahaj's community and instance is already women friendly

Cons:

there is probably some work to move another instance (I'm not sure what that would take - or if we would just shutter the lazysoci.al community and start a new one on Blahaj?)
Ada's rules can be pretty strict, which means we might lose some control over moderation decisions and discretion; you could view this as a pro or con, part of the reason Blahaj is so welcoming and such a good option is because of Ada's strictness - I only bring it up because of the 196 drama that happened recently where the mods of that community felt they didn't align fully with Ada's approach - so that's just something to get clear on, what are the expectations, and are we comfortable with those expectations
Blahaj defederates from some instances and likewise some instances have defederated from Blahaj, so that might impact our users a little bit (again, this could be a pro depending on how you feel about the instances that are defederated from one another; I suspect Hexbear users who like this community would be upset if we moved to Blahaj, because Hexbear defederated from Blahaj).

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LadyButterfly 8 points a year ago

Can you link me the admin there? I might get an account there

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will_steal_your_username 14 points a year ago

Sign up is open! We have an application process that I help with: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/signup

Here's Ada, I dunno how to link her properly: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/ada

We also have a matrix and a piefed as well.

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LadyButterfly 6 points a year ago

Great will DM you

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otter 9 points a year ago

I have also heard good things about https://beehaw.org/ in that regard (both are excellent instances, I'm not suggesting one over the other)

I hope you and the community here is able to find a place that meets your needs! I enjoy reading and learning from the posts in this community

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LadyButterfly 6 points a year ago

Good tip thanks! Your name is adorable btw

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otter 4 points a year ago

Thanks :)

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LadyButterfly 5 points a year ago

Thanks for suggesting it! We're in the process of moving to !womensstuff@piefed.blahaj.zone atm and Ada has been amazing. I feel good that we're not gonna get attacked as much

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will_steal_your_username 4 points a year ago

I'm glad! I'm Linda over there btw!

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LadyButterfly 4 points a year ago

Great see you in the safe zone!

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klemptor 26 points a year ago

Keep it limited to makeup and fashion, I guess, unless you want to be brigaded!

We should make all post titles pertain to makeup and fashion so the men won't even bother clicking. (Not a serious suggestion but it probably would work!)

Seriously though: I feel you on this. I don't understand why it's so hard for some men to just leave women in peace, and it's exhausting. Our mods do a great job but the flood of rude, unwanted men seems never-ending.

I don't get it. I'd never go into a men-only space and have the hubris to think they need to hear my opinion. It's men-only for a reason! Maybe they have women brigading their communities, but I sincerely doubt it's comparable to what we see.

(To any men lurking who are respecting the community's rules, thank you. We appreciate your courtesy!)

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LadyButterfly 16 points a year ago

Omg we should totally do that.

Title: 16 different types of blusher that'll blow your mind! Post: now that the men are gone, can you advise me on my patriarchy problem?

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klemptor 11 points a year ago

Exactly! We'd have so much peace, lol

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Sunshine 20 points a year ago

Thank you for bringing more spotlight on this issue.

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DearMoogle 19 points a year ago

It’s not good, but that’s why I generally keep it super simple. Makeup, fashion, hobbies, if I’m going to participate lol. Nothing remotely political. In fact - much like online video games, I have other accounts where I don’t reveal my gender or I’ll even talk like a dude on purpose. I already know we’re vastly outnumbered here, so I don’t care to invite mean comments from men. Big kudos to any fighting sisters out there, but I don’t want that stress in my life.

Maybe I should start treating this place more like my Tumblr and just post pretty pictures I like without giving a fuck lol

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SharkEatingBreakfast 22 points a year ago

I get it, but I'm not going to only talk about "safe" topics just because it makes men uncomfortable.

Women are not a political commodity.

I don't feel sorry for men who get hurt feelings over women putting down / requesting boundaries.

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growsomethinggood 16 points a year ago

Not a solve-everything solution, but I enjoy blocking every user who is even slightly a shit. My experience of slowly curating out the dumbasses has certainly made my experience a better one!

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SharkEatingBreakfast 12 points a year ago

They keep endlessly respawning. I'm tired, boss. I'm so tired.

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Sunshine 6 points a year ago

Men sure like to sealion.

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200ok 5 points a year ago

I do this too. My block list is long.

I wish there was a place we could list who we blocked and why. Might sound pitchforky but I'm just over it. I just want to live and let live.

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foxglove 6 points a year ago

having a public block list would be great, tbh - ublock origin does something similar with maintained filter lists, for example

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ZDL 4 points a year ago

I'd be down for that. Having pretty between all the goons would be a relief.

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Caitlyynn 16 points a year ago

Pls don't white Knight guys, it doesn't help here

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Arkhive 15 points a year ago

This is better than R*ddit for sure, but I feel your pain. Maybe we fire up our own instance and defederate? The same thought has come up in some blahaj chats. It’s absolutely rough, but part of the beauty of the fediverse is controlling whose content you see, but also who can see your content. That, to me, makes the fediverse perfect for communities looking to make safe, exclusive, spaces. I’d even personally consider going so far as to return to old models like ECHO (East Coast Hang Out) where you request and receive your account by snail mail. Idk, adding a vetting process to joining is important for the safety of any oppressed group. In this case adding barriers to entry is not gatekeeping, it’s acting as the bouncer to a space that is in fact reserved for specific people.

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ZDL 15 points a year ago

I have a technical question: is it not possible to set up a community that is "member-only posting" in Lemmy? (Genuine question, I have no idea. I don't run an instance or a community.)

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catfeeder 7 points a year ago

The closest Lemmy can do is making your posts visible only to users from your instance. But there isn't one single women-friendly instance so IMHO it isn't a great solution.

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Arkhive 3 points a year ago

@lemmy.blahaj.zone is sort of a general queer instance, but has a big population of trans femme folks already. Plus pretty much everyone on the instance “gets it”. Come check it out! We’ve got safe spaces and good memes. I would say blahaj.zone is a very women friendly instance. Not to say it will magically fix the Lemmy experience, but at the very least we have an admin that pulls zero punches when it comes to banning the jerks.

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catfeeder 4 points a year ago

I am on Blahaj Zone tho ;)

What I mean is that, when you make your post local-only on e.g. blahaj, you also prevent good people at Beehaw and other safe instances from participating. I DO support moving to Blahaj though, I think it will improve the situation a little. But the struggle will continue nonetheless.

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Arkhive 5 points a year ago

Oh I didn’t even open your profile! Love seeing someone who jumped on the PieFed instance!! I anticipate Blahaj and a few other instances eventually putting their federation with the melting pots to a community vote, or something like that.

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ZDL 2 points a year ago

I'm pretty sure that lazysoci.al is women-friendly, though.

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teslasaur -3 points a year ago

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dontbelievethis 14 points a year ago

Lemmy is a program.

Your instance admin is responsible for federation settings and moderation.

Talk to them or make an invite only instance/community otherwise this will always happen.

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Sombyr 14 points a year ago

I would just delete my Lemmy account entirely if I weren't disabled and barely able to leave the house. There basically aren't any non misogynistic places for me to hang out.
As tough a job as it's gotta be to moderate this community, I'm glad this space exists so I have somewhere I feel at least semi safe to be.
Also, blocking every popular instance except blahaj drastically cuts down on the misogyny you encounter, especially if you use an app like connect which let's you block every user of an instance as well as the content of it (as opposed to lemmy's built in blocking which only blocks the content and not the users.)

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ZDL 15 points a year ago

I think the only way to have a non-misogynistic place is to go to an old-school forum without "federation". That way you don't have the drive-by randos popping in to spout bullshit about how it's "misandry" to say "please guys, this is just our space, you can go literally anywhere else".

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Sombyr 11 points a year ago

In my experience, unfortnuately, it doesn't matter where you go or how much effort they'll have to put in, some dude is always going to take personal offense to any space he's not allowed in and kick up shit there about it.

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ZDL 10 points a year ago

Can't kick up shit in an old school forum without an account, though. I mean count the guys commenting just in this message. They saw a message that specifically said "no guys commenting" and ... commented. This is because the whole way Lemmy works means everybody can see posts, even if they're not members. They can go to the local or all feed.

In a non-federated forum of the aulde skoole variety they'd have to go hunting for a forum for women, then make an account and pass muster, and only then can they start kicking up a fuss like a toddler. Some will, but I suspect way fewer than the drive-by randos here in Lemmy.

I wish I had a "white list" instead of a "black list" for federation. Right now if I see too many stupid opinions from a single place (lemmy.world I'm looking at you here!) I can block it. But given this intrinsically misogynistic environment on Lemmy it might be nicer to have lists of servers I want to see things from instead of ones I don't want.

'Cause I get this feeling that the former is a smaller list than the latter.

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Sombyr 7 points a year ago

Yeah, I suppose that does sound nice. I guess I've just got some degree of learned helplessness making me feel like there's no escape.
A whitelisted Lemmy server sounds like it'd be great. Still get the feel of Lemmy minus (most of) the misogyny.

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Madzielle 13 points a year ago

Really? This has not been my experience at all. I feel fine here. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I haven't seen hostility at all on my end.

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DrFistington 13 points a year ago

The Internet in general isn't a good place for anyone, especially women

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flicker 19 points a year ago

I get what you're going for but this kind of discourse is part of the problem.

Any time someone says "I'm having a problem because x!" Someone shows up to say, "OTHER people have that problem!" This is not helpful. Adding especially women at the end didn't negate the whataboutism you started with. No disrespect just... exhausting.

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Walk_blesseD 6 points a year ago

Some places are better than others. Lemmy is worse.

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foxglove 2 points a year ago

I was wondering what places are better - Tumblr maybe? Reddit and Lemmy seem both similarly male dominated, and I agree with JohnnyFlapHoleSeed that internet communities in general are male dominated and not friendly to women ...

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Head 11 points a year ago

The older I get, the more I want to be a lesbian. Thank you for this post.

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foxglove 5 points a year ago

this is a vibe, lol

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W3dd1e 11 points a year ago

I mean honestly, is there any part of the internet that women are actually “allowed in”?

I haven’t had too many specific Lemmy problems. It’s just the being a woman online that is bad.

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Diva 10 points a year ago

Lemmy has a wide variety of chauvinists who think they're as left as it gets.

hexbear.net local was actually a great mental health break compared to any version of lemmy

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ZDL 1 point a year ago

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DragonTypeWyvern 1 point a year ago

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Alice 7 points a year ago

Lemmy in and of itself is very toxic, hostile, negative, and filled with extremists and thrives on drama. I've been on lemmy on and off for 5 years, and that's not something I see changing.

Having said that, I would say the best route, is to just ignore any men who are in the women's community. The mods seem to do a really good job at it keeping them out

Lemmy fosters negativity and I just don't see that ever going away unfortunately. Just work around it, that's what I do.

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ZDL 3 points a year ago

Any system that has visible scores that people vote to get is going to foster negativity. The Original Sin of online spaces was assuming that "popular" is "good".

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MTK 7 points a year ago

Sadly Lemmy really isn't all that fit for this situation. I think the best that can be done is making a womens only instance, which should actually work pretty well but would be hard as visibility would be low (women who are new to lemmy might have a hard time even learning of the instance) and of course the admins would have to work hard as they would have to vet new users.

I think this can be done if there were enpugh willing admins, but I'm not sure there are. I personally don't have any experience on being a Lemmy admin but I do know IT and I am willing to help, so if anyone does want to make a womens only instance you could PM me 🙏

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hzl 7 points a year ago

Lemmy definitely feels like it's declined a lot over the past year across the board. Every thread is a fight. I see a lot of Reddit style combative comments all over the place and I'm just less and less enthusiastic to be using it. I've tried a handful of instances, including places like Beehaw, and even there the level of hostility I see is absolutely unhinged.

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LadyButterfly 6 points a year ago

Hey Hazel, I'm really sorry you've had such shitty experiences. We've moved to !womensstuff@piefed.blahaj.zone Ada has been fantastically supportive. She proactively bans people who are problematic, and does a lot to protect groups that face intolerance.

Just fyi the posts take a few days to transfee over so you may not be able to see much right now. New posts should show

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hzl 3 points a year ago

Thanks! I'll give it a shot!

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Kirsche_z 2 points a year ago

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ZDL 3 points a year ago

The issue isn't "men not listening or understanding us", it's "men not respecting basic requests of common courtesy and decency like ... not commenting in a women's only space".

At least that's the part that gets me extremely salty right now.

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Kirsche_z 1 point a year ago

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Maalus -3 points a year ago

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SharkEatingBreakfast 21 points a year ago

Perfect! There's a group meeting in a park. They are all in a circle chatting with each other. Is it your right to suddenly start inserting yourself into the discussion? Do you often do that to strangers talking amongst themselves?

Boundaries ≠ misandry.

Small group dedicated to a minority community ≠ misandry.

Do you often interject in amputee communities talking about their struggles? Cancer survivors? Abuse victims? Groups with a common experience that they'd like to share with people who often experience the same struggles trying to find solidarity in a community?

But no. Please talk over us!

Fuck off.

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Maalus -11 points a year ago

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SharkEatingBreakfast 20 points a year ago

My bad! This space isn't really ours because we didn't create it from scratch.

"Leave Lemmy because you can't have your own space! Because people like me will come and invade it after you asked me not to! 😎 haha gotcha!"

I have no expectation of privacy when posting in places like this. The men spectating while respectfully not commenting are watching you be a fucking embarrassment. "Look! Anyone can be a dickwad! Even me! Don't tell me not to comment! Hehehe!"

We get it. You suck and enjoy continually harassing women. Wow. Super. Congrats, I guess. Sincerely hope you repeatedly stub your smallest toe on every piece of furniture in your home.

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Maalus -3 points a year ago

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SharkEatingBreakfast 15 points a year ago

"Hello! This is a women-only community! Please don't post here if you do not identify as a women or fall under the trans/enby umbrella! Thank you!"

you are screaming at passerbys that they cannot join your chat. You are walking up to them. Nobody is "talking over you".

You literally waltzed over into this community and got mad we said "no thank you"

🤡

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Maalus -3 points a year ago

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ZDL 17 points a year ago

you are walking up to every man around and screaming in their face that they aren’t welcome.

Men (presuming, I'm guessing, you, despite knowing the rules, because rules aren't for men...) have to come to this group to be told to piss off. (And the mods are super nice about telling men to piss off. There's a reason why they're mods and I'm not!)

For you to call that "walking up to every man around and screaming in their face" is so fucking ridiculous that I can't even begin to imagine the kind of entitled, toddler-like mindset required to express this without laughing.

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Sunshine 12 points a year ago

Just leave and block this community. We dont need your gaslighting here.

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LadyButterfly 9 points a year ago

Hi Maalus thanks so much for your feedback! We are women only so you're banned. All the best 🥰

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turtlesareneat -3 points a year ago

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SharkEatingBreakfast 36 points a year ago

I feel hostility when I see these threads

Why? Cuz we ask men not to post here?

We'll respect any community that wants it's own spaces.

Boundaries are not hostility. This community has been nothing but kind and respectful. Check every other thread in this place.

Me personally? In this thread? I'm absolutely being hostile. Absolutely.

Because, apparently, being nice doesn't fucking work! And now I've resorted to verbal violence!

Consider this a protest.

I don't wish for gay bars to be filled with straight men.

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ZDL 29 points a year ago

Gay dude here, as usual I feel hostility when I see these threads but I’ll reply anyway.

Let me translate this from Male Privilege to English:

"I'm a guy and even though I know this is against the channel rules, I won't let mere WOMEN tell ME what to do."

Go away child.

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prettybunnys -5 points a year ago

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SharkEatingBreakfast 18 points a year ago

Yeah, we wrongly expected men to respect this space.

Guess that's too much to fucking ask.

You have the rest of this fucking website to do whatever you fucking want. And we have ONE single tiny space we respectfully requested you do not post to.

And yet. Here you are!

EDIT: Ladies, if there's not a lock on your door, regardless of the "please do not enter" sign, you can't just expect men not to enter! IT'S THEIR GOD-GIVEN RIGHT!!!!!

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prettybunnys -3 points a year ago

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SharkEatingBreakfast 11 points a year ago

It’s like standing in the mall and shouting that the floor tile you’re on is yours and yours alone and then getting mad that someone says “ok”

No, it's like we requested a room in the community center for our meeting, and some fucking dumb-ass barges in, sits down, and inserts themself into our conversation!

Or! You could stay out of women-only spaces when requested! No?

I don't have the time or tools to host my own instance, so maybe just stay out of our fucking room until we do.

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prettybunnys 0 points a year ago

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Alice 4 points a year ago

If anything lemmy needs more communities like this. Communities that AREN'T political and strictly focused around a specfic topic.

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Plesiohedron -6 points a year ago

It's a bit sexist.

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LadyButterfly 12 points a year ago

Thanks I've reviewed it and don't consider it sexist. We're a women's only community for a reason, and that reason is what she's talking about

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will_steal_your_username 6 points a year ago

This post?

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teslasaur -17 points a year ago

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ZDL 19 points a year ago

Tell me, how insecure are you that you COME HERE to tell us that we are somehow going out to scream at you?

You. Came. Here.

Not the other way around.

How shrivelled is your manhood that you can't stand being asked to not be here? What is behind your obvious misogyny? (What's that? You don't think you're misogynistic? Tell me how you'd respond, then, to someone going to a metal-oriented channel and saying that all metal sucks and that only losers and wasted goons listen to that shit: real people listen to waltzes.)

Now piss off, child. Adults are trying to continue with a conversation. The toddler table is over there.

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teslasaur -3 points a year ago

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WomensStuff

@lazysoci.al

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Women only trans inclusive This is an inclusive community for all things women. Whether you're here for make up tips, feminism or just friendly chit chat, we've got you covered.

Rules…

Women only… trans women are women, and transphobic or gender critical talk isn’t allowed. Anyone under the trans umbrella (e.g. non-binary, bigender, agender) is free to decide whether a women's community is a good fit for them.
Don’t be a dick. No personal attacks, no aggression, play nice.
Don’t hate on groups, hatefilled talk about groups is not allowed. Ever.
No governmental politics, so no talk of Trump actions etc. We recommend Feminism@beehaw.org for that, but here is an escape from it.
New accounts or users with few comments may have their posts removed to prevent spam and bad-faith participation.

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WomensStuff

@lazysoci.al

login for more options

Women only trans inclusive This is an inclusive community for all things women. Whether you're here for make up tips, feminism or just friendly chit chat, we've got you covered.

Rules…

Women only… trans women are women, and transphobic or gender critical talk isn’t allowed. Anyone under the trans umbrella (e.g. non-binary, bigender, agender) is free to decide whether a women's community is a good fit for them.
Don’t be a dick. No personal attacks, no aggression, play nice.
Don’t hate on groups, hatefilled talk about groups is not allowed. Ever.
No governmental politics, so no talk of Trump actions etc. We recommend Feminism@beehaw.org for that, but here is an escape from it.
New accounts or users with few comments may have their posts removed to prevent spam and bad-faith participation.

go to feed...