That post seems to be missing.

feetongrass 62 points 3 years ago

He ‘doubled down’ because there was nothing else he could do. Iamthatis was meticulous in his takedown, and short of apologizing, there was nothing spez could say to make it better.

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scrubbles 27 points 3 years ago

Agreed, I have no idea how he thought it was a good idea. I'm sure his PR and legal team tried to talk him out of it - or they're all idiot yes men. Cards were already stacked against him and he just made it all worse.

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Cube6392 21 points 3 years ago

Then he should have apologized?

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atocci 13 points 3 years ago

Absolutely should have apologized. Who knows what he's thinking.

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RedPander 10 points 3 years ago

At least FlyingLaserTurtle apologized. Kinda felt hollow to me though compared to what he said.

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Schedar 5 points 3 years ago

It was good that they apologised but it probably the easiest thing out of the long, long list to apologise for.

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feetongrass 1 point 3 years ago

You know that’s a big no no from his legal team.

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Cube6392 6 points 3 years ago

His legal team more likely advised him to not comment on it. Doubling down is just slander / libel. If his legal team did tell him to talk more about it AND to not apologize, his legal team is big dumb

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scrollbars 15 points 3 years ago

spez also just seems incredibly salty for someone that must have everything in life, yeesh

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zerkrazus 48 points 3 years ago

I hope this mess they created destroys their site, they deserve it for being such smug asshole pricks about the whole thing.

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laxe 14 points 3 years ago

I was expecting some humility, admission of faults and an olive branch.

Instead, the CEO just doubled down and comes to the AMA with canned, smug responses. What a joke.

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savedbythezsh 11 points 3 years ago

As people were pointing out on Reddit, in this case I don't actually hope that, because the people who suffer as a result are the users. Tons of useful content that users have created and contributed, other people would just never have access to again.

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koopacha 46 points 3 years ago

Idk what the point of the ama even was, it’s not like he was going to hear anyone out, and everyone that commented was just asking “why are you such a bad person?”

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RedPander 17 points 3 years ago

I -think- that it was to try and keep mods around by ensuring that they won't (maybe) take away their tools.

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troye888 14 points 3 years ago

Yes yes we are working on mod tools they will be there "soon" - reddit for the last 8 years.

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Yoreo 8 points 3 years ago

"Why are you such a bad person?" - because money.

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Rentlar 44 points 3 years ago

I had no idea in what scenario imaginable that this was going to go well or improve things, even when it was announced.

"Hey Steve, you were right. We realize we were taking your mercy to keep the API for granted. We'll not only cancel the subreddit blackouts but we'll stop using 3rd party apps, install the official app and click on 5 ads just because of how admirable your AMA post was."

-Redditors in Steve's mind

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elrac 19 points 3 years ago

That's what I did...
No wait, I'm here now after 13 years on Reddit. My mistake.

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piezoelectron 44 points 3 years ago

The basic mistake I see us all make is assume that Spez has any emotional attachment to Reddit (let alone anything close to how attached we are to it). He doesn't.

Once you realize that he's 100% in it for the money and is utterly uncaring about Reddit's users (i.e. you), you'll realize that he couldn't give less of a shit about actually addressing our concerns.

This will also make you immune to any PR sanitising lies him and his team spout, as all such lies hinge on your willingness to give him some benefit of the doubt. We shouldn't.

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aaronbieber 25 points 3 years ago

The example I give again, and again, and again is Craig Newmark, founder of Craigslist. Craigslist remains private (which shields it from being gutted by Wall Street vultures, for sure) so we don't know for sure, but Craig is believed to retain a controlling stake alongside current CEO Jim Buckmaster and eBay (which purchased a large stake from an exiting employee).

Craigslist makes about $600 million annually, and I'm sure provides a nice living for the executives and employees there, but has remained true to its core function of providing transparent and easy classifieds posting to everyone (mostly for free, even!)

Notice what happens when an organization becomes a vehicle for profit, beyond simply "self-sustaining profit." Notice how taking on investors practically guarantees that outcome.

I thought Reddit was dead the day Conde Nast bought it. They've survived quite a bit longer! This day had to come. Let's move on.

We can build something that primarily exists to create a community.

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DidacticDumbass 3 points 3 years ago

I had no idea Conde Nast bought Reddit. That is unreal. As someone who used to adore Wired magazine, fuck Conde Nast!

Yeah, no use saving Reddit. Give up your darling, let better things take over.

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mobyduck648 16 points 3 years ago

We shouldn't give the benefit of the doubt to a man who's shown himself on multiple occasions completely incapable of good faith any more than a hedgehog should give an owl the benefit of the doubt.

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effingjoe 4 points 3 years ago

a hedgehog should give an owl the benefit of the doubt

I didn't realize that owls and hedgehogs were mortal enemies.

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mobyduck648 1 point 3 years ago

To be fair it probably depends on the species of owls and hedgehogs involved, I know owls will sometimes go for hedgehogs here in the UK.

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lackthought 10 points 3 years ago

yeah pretty much

spez sees 3rd party users as an obstacle between himself and more money. so he will gladly trade the bad pr and loss of certain users if it means that even a small fraction end up switching to the official app and it gains him another 0.1% in wealth for the IPO

he claimed that old.reddit wasn't going anywhere, but we all know that it will be crippled to the point of unusability

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deuxenun 36 points 3 years ago

I just deleted my main account of 3 years and also my 2 alts.

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BruceTwarzen 8 points 3 years ago

I deleted my 10 year old account. I was annoyed for a while, but this is just dumb. Fuck spez

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StoicLime 6 points 3 years ago

Could you help me figure out how to reply to a post on Kbin? I can reply to comments in a post, but can't comment on the post itself, I can't find an option for it.

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themadcodger 6 points 3 years ago

Very very bottom. That's something that should be fixed.

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Swyperider 3 points 3 years ago

The box for commenting on a post should be at the bottom of the rest of the comments.

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snoopfrog 5 points 3 years ago

Yep, 11 years and 82k karma wiped out yesterday. The only posts I left were some comments on a thread where I was helping folks navigate to Lemmy. I'm at my new home.

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hamborgr 32 points 3 years ago

He responded to a whole 14 questions. Truly, a hard day's work for the CEO of Reddit.

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animist 10 points 3 years ago

He had a monocle measuring to get to

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BobQuasit 3 points 3 years ago

Don't worry, the answers he gave were all pre-written anyway. Probably not by him!

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Knusper 32 points 3 years ago

"[...] recording and leaking a private phone call—to the point where I don’t know how we could do business with him.”

Well, Selig did wait with leaking that phone call until he felt like all the bridges had been more than burned from Reddit's side and he officially did not want to do business with Reddit anymore, so I don't think that will be an issue...

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3DBeerGoggles 30 points 3 years ago

In fairness, he posted the recording after Spez repeated something false about the call Selig was on.

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lvxferre 17 points 3 years ago

@Knusper And, more than that: it shows the typical modus operandi of the Shitty and Pissy Evil Zombie. When people don't fall for his bullshit, he tries to divert attention into something else, an intrinsically disingenuous tactic. All of that with the implicit consent of the company as a whole.

And as a self-fulfilling prophecy this justifies the recording. If you're going to deal with a company that should not be trusted, you need to protect yourself, and that is what Selig did.

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scrubbles 5 points 3 years ago

You can't fire me! I quit!

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lauch 32 points 3 years ago

Admitting that “Unlike some of the 3P apps, we are not profitable.” just shows to the world, that they don't know how to run a business. This should be warning shot for every investor.

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jojo 12 points 3 years ago

When i read that i was honestly astonished how they expected anyone to invest in reddit at all

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unsunny 6 points 3 years ago

Exactly! I’m not a rich investor person, but nobody with a brain would invest in a company bleeding money, and that was such a terrible move to admit. If their PR isn’t a half-working AI after firing all those people, they should’ve been horrified between that and the Christian Selig/Apollo comments.

You also can’t count on Reddit becoming a meme stock, especially with absolutely zero regard for the users who make these meme stocks happen.

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rubythulhu 1 point 3 years ago

This whole thing is all about trying to monetize user-generated content by selling it at a high premium to large AI companies. If they allow a lower pricing tier for 3pa’s, other companies/individuals will find a way to use that lower tier for training models, and this is the only thing spez sees as a viable profit model for reddit.

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Knoll0114 1 point 3 years ago

It also could be=(at least partially) that they are intentionally making their profits worse by adding costs like huge higher-up salaries, reinvestment etc. Their revenue is 100s of millions.

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Cal 29 points 3 years ago

I have no clever thing to say except it seems Spez is, without joking or being mean, clinically insane.
The dedicated content creator userbase is long gone, and it shows. The casual content creator is leaving. The lurker and occasional poster will have nothing to read, except the thinly veiled ads pretending to be organic posts. It's quickly becoming a digital wasteland. Fun to digg through maybe, just like we leaf through an old book sometimes.

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ErmahghrrdDavid 15 points 3 years ago

fun to digg through

ICWYDT 😉

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isdfoa 11 points 3 years ago

Lurkers (me) are leaving too, hopefully en masse.

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worfamerryman 8 points 3 years ago

Yeah, I think your right. The content creators and submitters will leave and then there is nothing left.

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alternativeninja 5 points 3 years ago

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BobQuasit 4 points 3 years ago

All late-stage capitalists (like spez) are sociopaths. It's a prerequisite.

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yak 27 points 3 years ago

I'm not understanding a shit about kbin vs lemmy, but in doubt I just created an account on both and I'm on my way to delete my reddit account. Hi new friends!

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zinklog 14 points 3 years ago

Lemmy and kbin are different things which work on the same backend and are part of the fediverse. Similar to how mastodon is fediverse counterpart of Twitter, lemmy is fediverse counterpart of Reddit, and kbin is a unique thing which is more akin to old school blogging sites.

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yak 4 points 3 years ago

Okay, now that's more clear, but I'm struggling to understand if I have to use all of them separately or I can do it all through kbin...I can use Lemmy and Mastodon through kbin somehow, right?

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bocchi_but_male 2 points 3 years ago

You can access and comment in Lemmy from kbin, but I'm not sure if you can do the same for Mastodon. But Mastodon users can certainly use their accounts to comment on Lemmy. The beauty of the fediverse (or threadiverse, as some guys like to call it)

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lackthought 6 points 3 years ago

I've gone ahead and made accounts on all of these services: lemmy, kbin, mastodon

Whichever interface I enjoy the most will likely be the main one I keep using for commenting/etc

this whole fediverse thing is pretty exciting and reminds me of old reddit, in a good way

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yak 1 point 3 years ago

Okay thanks. I'll try to find out more

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Limeade 1 point 3 years ago

Kbin is sort of a hybrid between Lemmy and Mastodon. "Magazines" are their equivalent of Lemmy communities/Reddit subreddits, while the "Microblog" section is like a Mastodon/Twitter feed. You should be able to follow Lemmy communities and Mastodon users both on kbin.

I think Mastodon users can follow Lemmy communities and comment on Lemmy through Mastodon, too, though from what I've read the Mastodon UI isn't really set up to show Lemmy content in an organized way with good threading since its main aim is to support microblogging and following individual users. There are some things in the fediverse that you can do from multiple platforms, but will have an easier time doing it from the platform that is designed around that function.

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icecrmsandwich 1 point 3 years ago

Same here, both seem to work decently once i wrapped around the concepts but i'll be patiently waiting to see where the masses organically migrate to.

Both are a struggle to navigate on mobile though until more app devs hop on.

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Toxinflora 22 points 3 years ago

well i didn't expect much

well i wondered if it would be possible for reddit to walk back their decisions but it appears that they won't, which sucks a lot

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BrooklynMan 24 points 3 years ago

it was a fun ride for the last... almost 17 years. but I'm out on June 30th. I'm happy to make a new home here on Lemmy!

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Helvedeshunden 9 points 3 years ago

After seeing the responses, I realized Reddit is a lost cause and deleted my account of 11 years. My "exit interview" answers were... salty.

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Yoreo 4 points 3 years ago

It's unfortunate you went about it the way you did since they can still monetize off of the entirety of your comment and post history. When you delete your account, all your comments and posts remain. They're just no longer attached to your account name since that is what you deleted.

I was a bit more malicious and did the opposite by keeping my account intact, but gutting everything from within. So now every thread I ever commented in has "user deleted comment" sprinkled all throughout hundreds or thousands of threads.

My account is now a fine metaphor for what reddit has become. Just a hollow facade of what it once was.

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Helvedeshunden 3 points 3 years ago

I deleted all my posts before I left :) I couldn't be arsed to do it for comments, though.

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communist 16 points 3 years ago

It's probably a good thing, the fediverse will thrive because of it, and we'll never have to worry about the horrible monopoly-on-communities doing something ridiculous anymore.

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Yoreo 20 points 3 years ago

Since u/spez seems to want to continue down this road and bar people of experiencing reddit the way they want, I decided to delete all of my post and comment history within my account there.

It's obvious that those of us that want to continue to use 3rd party apps are considered dead weight in his eyes, so I decided that anything and everything I posted is likely of no value to Reddit.

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mounderfod 6 points 3 years ago

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Ultra980 8 points 3 years ago

Try PowerDeleteSuite on GitHub.

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mounderfod 5 points 3 years ago

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Ultra980 3 points 3 years ago

No problem!

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fossilesque 1 point 3 years ago

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fuckspez 2 points 3 years ago

I'll replace all of my content for "fuck u/spez" once I get it backed up.

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amir_s89 4 points 3 years ago

It's us the users who create & place value within that platform. In subjects of our interests. Reddit company is adamant with their decision with limiting our precense alone.

Make sense that people have started migrating into other places/ services such as this one.

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Yoreo 1 point 3 years ago

Sadly he doesn't care. He's just keeping his eyes on the horizon awaiting all that ipo money so he can cash out.

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ash 19 points 3 years ago

Kinda glad this happened. This is getting so much more PR than Spez could have anticipated. Former Apollo user here, loving the app on iOS & it’s pretty straightforward. Hope this gets more active and i think this might be my new home :)

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subz 5 points 3 years ago

You mean app as in Apollo for iOS or app as there’s something for kbin?

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_pete_ 6 points 3 years ago

There is Mlem listed on https://join-lemmy.org/apps

It’s an early test flight build - and there are some bugs - but it seems to work at least!

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overlordror 8 points 3 years ago

So happy to see quick app development for Lemmy. I did most of my redditing fsom my phone with third party apps since they predate the original app. In the early 2000s internet, I joined a smallish community just like Beehaw called Netalive.org. Hoping this community can re-create the feeling of talking to people without a mass lurker audience.

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worfamerryman 4 points 3 years ago

I’m using it now. It really has a way to go, but it’s a new app and I’m totally fine being patient with development.

I can really see this app becoming the next Apollo. The devs seem to be hard at work.

If the devs see this, thank you again for this app. So far, I’m really loving it 🙏🙏

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ash 3 points 3 years ago

Apollo for iOS. I’ve been a beta tester of it for ~5ish years.

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autumnplains 3 points 3 years ago

I'm living in hope that this will catch on and Christian and the other third-party developers will work on Fediverse apps...

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ash 3 points 3 years ago

hopefully! I really love his how he does his designs & his very open transparency.

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federation_helper 18 points 3 years ago

Rip reddit

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Cralex 18 points 3 years ago

This feels so surreal. I just watched a video the other day about how Apollo used to have a friendly relationship with Reddit. It’s so weird how spez is doing all this mudslinging. No good deed unpunished.

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troye888 7 points 3 years ago

In the goodbye post of apollo they were talking about their previous talk with reddit a few months ago. It was the reddit engineers and apollo devs finding a bug together, it genuinely looked like the 2 parties respected each other highly. It's crazy how fast things went south.

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animist 5 points 3 years ago

Money fucks with the brain

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ANuStart 16 points 3 years ago

Post the entire thing to /r/funny and it will be the only funny thing posted to that subreddit in years

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Kururin 5 points 3 years ago

truer words spoken lmao

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vinushkah 16 points 3 years ago

I'm all for users migrating here but there's so much vitriol from these users which I don't think benefits a platform like this. I for one would like to see people leave their hate for Reddit at the door and not use this as a haven for their rage.

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Gray 12 points 3 years ago

A fitting death knell for Reddit that their CEO would have an emergency AMA go down as one of the worst ones of all time. This week is going to be one for the internet history books. I'm really looking forward to Monday.

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mustyOrange 18 points 3 years ago

Let's be real - I don't think reddit is going anywhere quite yet, even after this. It's going to get worse and worse while heavily active users and mods start to leave and stuff, but it's shambling corpse will still exist for a long time in a heavily advertised hell scape with shit to non-existant moderarion.

The truth of the matter is that while the real die hards like us will find a home in places like this, the vast majority will not care. Honestly, I'm fine with that. Most the people coming in to places like that aren't the ones driving good discussion

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Evkob 11 points 3 years ago

Agreed, it's honestly kinda refreshing to have a space with smaller, more engaged communities. The conversations I've had so far on here have been much more enjoyable than most I've had on reddit in the past few years.

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worfamerryman 4 points 3 years ago

This is what I’ve liked the most about mastodon. Large communities do not mean better. Also the less content there is to consume, the more I think and share.

I’m already checking lemmy more regularly than I am checking Reddit.

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lackthought 2 points 3 years ago

exactly

keep the low effort users on twitter/reddit and it makes the conversations on mastodon/lemmy feel a million times more fulfilling and engaging because the people that are here actually put in some effort to join

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hopolapopola 4 points 3 years ago

I can definitely see reddit slowly declining like twitter has been, but never fully dying. I do wonder what will happen with content creators who have their communities there, will they move to fedi or will they stay like many did on twitter?

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mustyOrange 3 points 3 years ago

It seems people are landing all over the place. I'm seeing raddle.me, tild.es, here, and discord being the main options.

I honestly don't get why discord is getting looked at. It's a huge company that you don't really want to trust with stuff either, and it's not even a forum ffs

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hopolapopola 1 point 3 years ago

yeah discord is a horrible option...

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Jojo 11 points 3 years ago

Truly hope everyone else realizes how bad of a CEO he is and he gets ousted. He even admitted Reddit wasn't profitable. Sounds like he should have been on top of that way before now.

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MarsRT 10 points 3 years ago

I was surprised by how insane the ama got. Considering Reddit is a major social media platform, I expected them to act more professional and pretend to care about people's input, attempting to make their users look like they are at least fine with these changes. I prefer the actual outcome more, love how spez doubled down on the allegations he made against Apollo while everyone blasts Reddit so much they can't do much about it unless they start taking extreme measures.

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autumnplains 9 points 3 years ago

I feel like this person's comment re the AMA deserves a wider audience 😂

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Amir 7 points 3 years ago

I don't really want to delete my history, so I'm editing all my top comments to include:

Edit 2023/06/10: Leaving Reddit due to /u/spez doubling down on API changes. Will keep post history for future visitors.

I doubt Reddit didn't make backups of their databases anyways so this will let more people know what's going on.

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LiarBesidalAll 9 points 3 years ago

I get it, but leaving your data intact still drives traffic to the site. I hate that I'll be wiping my account, but I'm not about to let reddit continue profiting off me while they're so clearly uncaring of what the users want and care about.

You do you, but they don't deserve your comments, your takes, any of it.

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BobQuasit 4 points 3 years ago

You know you can download your data before you delete it, right?

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beefcat 3 points 3 years ago

The problem is other people can't find that data.

If Reddit doesn't back down, I will likelky be shutting down my subreddit. But I'll put it in read-only mode rather than killing it entirely, because there is useful information there and I don't want to contribute to link rot.

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BobQuasit 4 points 3 years ago

Doesn't Reddit deserve link rot at this point? And contrariwise, does Reddit deserve to capitalize on your work and the work of the members of your subreddit?

I wonder what your members might say if you put it to them?

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strangerloop 1 point 3 years ago

Would archiving it on the wayback machine or archive.is be feasible? Or is it just too much work?

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Rakust 6 points 3 years ago

While i can't imagine how much of a shit sandwich spez is eating behind the scenes. he's just made it so much worse for himself. Dude should resign, cash out, do whatever.

path: 0 42483, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 2

keeb420 3 points 3 years ago

i read the tifu he posted and wanted to laugh. talks out one side of his mouth about community yet they are forcing these changes through the community doesnt like without any care and lying about the devs who provide us with good functional apps to use reddit. thats not something someone whos trying to build a community does.

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tukang_makan 4 points 3 years ago

That tifu was a fake, it wasn't posted by spez

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OpposedScroll75 6 points 3 years ago

Probably a good thing for Kbin as lots of Redditors will come to this site as a replacement, myself included (though I'm currently just trying it out).

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xskylinedrive3x 3 points 3 years ago

Just deleted my Reddit account of 12 years. What a pompous loser. Here to stay.

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autumnplains 2 points 3 years ago

12 years too. Really hoping this works out as a replacement, but I'll miss Apollo greatly 🙁

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RIDDL3R 2 points 3 years ago

12 years here as well. Been on Kbin only for a bit, but it looks promising!

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Turtlewithahat 2 points 3 years ago

Same here, just arrived and seems like a good place to stay

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keeb420 2 points 3 years ago

same. who knows what the future holds but they are actively destroying the community they built there. fuck spez and the rest of the board. may the be successful in destroying reddit.

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JuBe 2 points 3 years ago

I just went to see what Kbin was about. The first search result was to a subreddit about it, except Reddit appears to be trying to block access to that subreddit by mobile users. I had to “Request Desktop Site” on my iPhone to get around it.

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CallocBrain 2 points 3 years ago

Can confirm, hoping to make this my permanent replacement

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themadcodger 2 points 3 years ago

Well welcome! Hope you stick around!

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Danimals 1 point 3 years ago

Samesies :)

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Rexxiter 6 points 3 years ago

Hello new friends?

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Rentlar 7 points 3 years ago

Hello! Must have been a long journey travelling from the lands of Kbin. Come, sit down and have a cup of tea, why not stay a while?

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LedgeDrop 3 points 3 years ago

Hi Buddy! It's great to hear from you again.

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lee 2 points 3 years ago

Yeah it was an absolute shit show.

Fuck you Steve (spez). You're a piece of garbage human.

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vinushkah 2 points 3 years ago

I'm all for users migrating here but there's so much vitriol from these users which I don't think benefits a platform like this. I for one would like to see people leave their hate for Reddit at the door and not use this as a haven for their rage.

path: 0 62846, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

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