We're early adopters. Early adopters have a higher tolerance for (and ability to deal with) things like bugs, confusing UI, uncertainty, and probably continual change for the short term.
Not to mention, a lack of content. While it's populating nicely it's still not like Reddit, especially for niche subjects. You definitely have to endure a lot of shouting in the wind situations while this builds up.
Yeah, I've certainly found myself subscribing to any and every magazine that looks even remotely like it could be interesting. Getting inundated isn't a problem around these parts just yet. But the volume definitely has gone up recently.
It's genuinely hard and needs to be improved. Subscribing to a magazine that someone else on kbin has subscribed to already isn't too bad. Go to the magazine (eg, click what looks like the subreddit name in the post) and scroll alllll the way down and there'll be a subscribe button.
But if nobody has subscribed yet in the instance, it's hilariously hard. You have to search in the general search (not the magazine search) for specifically "magazine@domain.com" and you should see a subscribe button then. You will not content in that magazine that existed before you subscribed. If that sounds terrible, it's because it is. Thankfully, most of the time, you won't be the first to subscribe to a magazine and thus can just use the magazine search or browse the front page to see posts.
PS: the subscribe option is also as the bottom of each thread. So you can alternatively just open a thread in the magazine instead of the magazine itself.
PPS: I've mentioned the subscribe button being at the bottom because that's the placement on mobile and I think many of us are on mobile. On desktop, it's in the sidebar.
The way I've found it (on kbin) is that there's a column on the right-hand side of comment thread pages. One of the boxes in the right-hand column is labeled "Magazine" and there should be a black button that's labeled "Subscribe" somewhere.
It seems almost exactly the same as the view from old reddit. right hand side sidebar with a box that says subscribe until you hit it and then it turns into unsubscribe. The only difference I see is the subs are consistent so like in reddit it was not consistantly in the same location but here it is.
Also historic threads that probably will never be feasible to create anymore. Eg, I loved to read TV show episode discussions right after I watched the episode. That includes for older shows. As long as it didn't predate reddit, basically every notable show had a decent sized thread for every single episode. But a lot of those were only able to take off because they were created when the episode aired. Rewatches don't get the same kinda discussion.
I think a lot of my reddit usage boils down to searches.
"Best pregnancy lotion reddit"
"Bed gouging ender 3 pro reddit"
"Submarine disaster askhistorians"
Are the main ways I used reddit this week.
Before all the drama I had pointed to many friends that most discourse and live interaction on my regular subreddits had already moved to discord. The unified ui and functioning search make it more useful.
Before all the drama I had pointed to many friends that most discourse and live interaction on my regular subreddits had already moved to discord. The unified ui and functioning search make it more useful.
But discoverability is zero for that content. discord is "deep web" which is not indexable at all by search engines.
for me discord is just not organized. There is no way im scrolling up on conversations when I have not been on for three days much less a week. I think discord only works if you are looking to be on social media all the time or at least daily.
Yeah, and just googling something will be completely useless with a project named after a famous rock musician.
„How to upload pictures lemmy“, yes, thank you google, I know how Lemmy Kilmister looks, thank you.
That’s (among other things) why I hope kbin will be the victor of that race…
although, I'm sure, google results will adjust accordingly eventually.
im not sure I want a victor or even see a race as long as the federation survives we all win.
Yep. The battletech comunity on reddit is like 45k subscribers and stays active. Kbin's /m/battletech has 56 subscribers. There are 5 threads. It's gonna be quite a while before niche communities actually have any momentum.
Personally I was getting a bit tired of not having one of my interests here so I created the magazine for it. We'll just see if it takes off.
For some other niche interests...I'll wait and see, I don't feel invested enough to create the magazines for them.
(For those interested in vegetable gardening @VegetableGardening )
The Snoo Platform is currently a chaotic mess, with purge of moderators being shown publicly...
yeah when the api thing happened I assumed old reddit was on borrowed time. So many folks where complaining of the jesus gets us ads that I never noticed.
Out of all the social platforms, Reddit is probably the easiest to copy. The moderation was all handled by users in the first place, and I don’t think Reddit employees are as needed as Twitter or Facebook.
Reddit is just shooting itself in the foot right now. I understand the need to make money, and I can understand the API becoming a revenue stream. They just handled it so poorly. There were tons of ways to open a dialogue with app devs about charging them. They could have made their users move to a subscription model. I just don’t get it.
This is my first comment on kbin!
Admittedly, I am only a casual user of Reddit (or I should say was). Seeing all this happen over the past few weeks, I have come to realize just how crazy moderation can be in a forum like this or Reddit.
Seeing everyone come together and log issues, problems, work on iOS and Android app accessibility for kbin and lemmy is phenomenal...an eye opener. It's an exciting moment for sure, and the collaboration between everyone is humbling.
300% this. People like us can navigate our way through all those drawbacks, but are deal-breakers for people like mom who lurk Reddit from time to time.
You can make the same comment between Facebook being 'easier" than Reddit. Or forums being easier than IRC.
A natural order is as user mass increases, ease of use improves. I think it's fine to acknowledge the challenges while continuing to spread the message and leveraging early adopter influence with folks comfortable doing some reading to understand vs a casual "mom" internet user that needs a very safe, templated app experience without many (or any) customization options.
In the workspace Slack is very big and is very analogous to a supremely polished IRC. Discord outside of professional workspaces is similar, though a bit more detached.
To me, these are the mass market evolutions of IRC from back in the day.
Yeah, this is my feeling. I was willing to put up with kbin.social using Cloudflare and being slow as all else, plus the random site breakages, and there not being an app - but a lot of folks I know wouldn’t be, especially the ones who couldn’t be bothered to figure out how to pick an instance for Mastodon to leave Twitter. Not to mention that right now, people have too many choices and don’t know what’s actually going to take over. They’ll wait until there’s a critical mass at one of the many Reddit alternative sites.
Most folks go where the other people are. We have to make the fediverse into the place where people want to come, and then this will be the place where people are.
I got into reddit about ten years ago ... I wasn't part of the first wave but back then it felt like the site was new and things were happening. Then it just slowly devolved into what it is now
I really don't mind the change as it just gives me a new perspective on things and people ... change is good ... any time we are caught standing still, we always seem to lose something, especially in the digital world.
Same here, ten years ago, Vulcan also discovered Reddit and later hop into it.
Yup, as an early adopter (and someone who loves bleeding edge thing), Vulcan can tolerate the lack of features at Kbin (and Lemmy).
Trying to convince some friends, and they complained about lack of activity in #threadiverse. Alright then, we can use this momentum to build and grow #threadiverse to be as competitive as the Snoo Platform.
Yeah, the trigger event that basically started all this was reddit deciding they don't want third party apps anymore (and people not wanting to use reddit's app). Well, there isn't much for apps here either.
Also, the network effect is still in play. Despite the fact I'm using this fully for all my posting, I still searched for reddit threads when I finished Tears of the Kingdom, because I wanted to read people's thoughts on various topics and those reddit threads already existed. Kbin and Lemmy threads don't yet exist in the large enough numbers for the various topics I was searching for (like if other people thought the sky islands felt too copy-paste or what people thought the lore of the depths were or how many people did the story out of order). I know I can make discussions here, but at the time I just wanted to read existing discussions. It's gonna take some time for the Fediverse to catch up to that.
But hey, someone’s gotta do it
When the going gets tough, the tough get going
Here are the issues for me:
I think most of these problems have relatively straightforward fixes. As for the UX issues I'd like to see two things:
an instance which combines communities/magazines into "hubs" which users subscribe to simplify the UX. Users could can then tweak their hub experience by toggling which instances feed into their hubs. So instead of having kbin.social/m/news, lemm.ee/c/news, lemmy.world/c/news, etc... you just have something like /h/news and you can configure what's included in /h/news. The mods of the instance's community would determine which communities feed into the hub by default, but users could customize this as they wish.
Better cross-site user and reputation management. I'm not sure exactly how to make this work... but if, when you created an account on once instance, every instance its federated would somehow reserve or automatically create a matching account for you, then the anxiety around which instance to join can kind of melt away. The different instances could become windows into, effectively, the same account and same system.
I strongly agree about the content on this site needing to not be about reddit. So much of my front page is news about reddit. And what's more it's so damn repetitive. Often the exact same stories posted over and over in half a dozen different instances because apparently everyone wants to create their own sub about the topic and doesn't want to say "oh, this is a duplicate, just go use so and so sub instead". And they get upvoted like crazy, too.
The posts often don't contain anything new, either. Sometimes they do, but so many posts are just another major news site covering the ongoing events. I think many people upvoted that because they like the idea of this getting more press.
Honestly, I get it. I am having a lot of schadenfreude at reddit cannibalizing itself. But at the same time, I only want to discuss that a bit. I want to see the site have a diverse amount of interesting content. And I have tried to practice what I'm preaching here. I don't upvote most reddit related threads anymore and I've posted a lot more than usual.
Im sorry but your hubs point screams for https://xkcd.com/927/ but personally I find kbin a little nicer in ui than old reddit but im an old school person.
I still don't feel there is any fediverse instance which feels as clean, elegant, and unclaustrophobic as the old.reddit.com UI. Whether that's just my own aversion to change or a legitimate comment on the quality of old.reddit I'm not sure, but there are some aspects of the UIs that are unquestionably rough, like full page loads which could be replaced with AJAX.
+1 on that. old.reddit (combined with the sub-specific CSS) is something that somehow needs to be ported over to the lemmy/kbin side, too. new reddit was too much wasted space and non-loaded stuff for me (old had more comments loaded by default)
Just move your community to Lemmy or Kbin. It's not that hard.
No, it is that hard.
Anyone whose worked on a team that had a management shakeup can appreciate this. Anyone who has a friend that refuses to migrate to windows 11 can appreciate this.
to be fair windows 10 to 11 is not much of a change vs like windows 7 to 8 or windows xp to 7
Not everyone uses a 3rd party app, nor are they eager to disrupt their daily flow by abandoning a platform they have grown accustomed to using.
The people most angry are those who are invested in reddit the most. There are a lot of folks who are way more casual and maybe only care about a couple niche subreddits that relate to their hobbies, but are uninterested in sitewide drama.
Without the mods and power users tho (content creators) these casual users will have fewer reasons to visit reddit. The drama affects them too, whether they realize it or not.
I agree fully, but I think there is a subset of users that like reddit itself, don't fully appreciate just how much work moderators put in to make the site usable.
These people will start to notice it more in the weeks to come, but i think many will stick with reddit for the time being while places like the fediverse become more established.
Someone just posted in my reddit niche sub about our new instance on kbin, and the first comment not from me was and I quote: "No Lemmy? :(".
I mean, if you build it they may come, but many people just want to be served.
that user didnt notice the fact that kbin and lemmy can talk together, same protocol underlying.
Except in the niche subs. Some people never go to r/pics and such, and if someone is in like 4 communities and 3 are remaining, those people seem to not be in favor of leaving. It's a self-centered attitude and a short-sighted one as well, especially if they use old-reddit. But for the people who are happy with like the iOS or Android official app, they're happy just to keep right on going.
And we need to be okay with that, imho - diversity isn't a bad thing at all. All we can do is offer a friendly community for them to join when they finally see it for themselves.:-)
Never underestimate the power of comfort and convenience. "It's just too HARD to move!," people will say. "Everybody I know is here!," they'll say. I've heard people say this a lot since the social media collapse sparked by Elon Musk. It's their choice, but I'm not comfortable staying. Maybe in time they'll realize that it's the right time to leave as well.
I second this and have experienced it myself trying to move to privacy-oriented options for online and mobile services.
I think Reddit is a bit unique in the SNS space, since the primary unit of subscription is community (or topic) rather than user, so I think it serves to depersonalize the platform a little bit, and remove some of the power of "Everybody I know is here!"
The reality is people hate change, especially from a platform they already feel comfortable with.
It's similar to playing MMORPGs and then switching to another game. You create an account with a lot of karma that people are proud of, you acquire those avatars and milestones, and you make friends. Then you start in a new place which is not user-friendly as the old one, and you lose everything from your previous account.
Many others, of course, are like me and do not care, but I believe the majority of people do.
Step 1 have you tried to understand? Can you not create a list of plausible reasons? I bet you can
I think it's that a lot of the people who were protesting have this mentality of, "I'm only protesting if other people are doing it." Unless subreddits have shut down, they themselves aren't getting off Reddit—either because they don't want to have left while their favorite communities continue on the platform or because they don't see the need to continue if they feel Reddit won't change. Many people just aren't willing to stick to their values in these situations if it means missing out or not having an immediate effect.
If you are willing to stick to your values in spite of these, then getting off Reddit (and even encouraging your community to migrate) is a no-brainer. Reddit has disregarded their users' wishes again and again, changing rules and shadowbanning moderators in order to keep their profits. If that's not something you want to support, then you get off Reddit, move to one of the alternatives, and maybe even go outside more.
Because fediverse is confusing as shit unfortunately
Same problem as with any social network migration: the network effect.
Sometimes the largest equivalent Lemmy community for a subreddit is tiny, or worse, nonexistent. Sure, you can go create one, but unless you can also convince other people to join with you, it won't be much fun.
That plus picking servers and browsing communities. Onboarding is not as simple as other social media experiences.
I've been here for about a week now, and still feel like there are features I don't understand or completely overlooked. The concept of the fediverse is simultaneously really simple (e.g. email analogy) and confusing (still not really clear on what makes kbin different from lemmy; and I have to subscribe to like 8 iterations of what is effectively r/worldnews... and there's a fed youtube-like that I haven't looked into yet, but haven't run into here so far... I can see lemmy content on kbin, but I can't log into Jerboa with a kbin account...)
It's a lot to take in.
...and honestly, ^that makes it kinda fun. Reddit gave me the middle finger, so I gave it right back by building my own theme-park with blackjack and hookers. Thoroughly enjoying the blackjack and hookers; but the "building my own theme-park" bit is a challenge - one that I (probably most of us here) find engaging and gratifying, but very much a challenge, and that isn't what everyone's looking for.
When I can show my tech-handicapped boomer mother a 2-minute video explaining the the whats and hows of the fediverse, it'll give the reddits and facebooks a run for their money; until then the fed will remain fairly niche. Which isn't a bad thing - finding and engaging with a niche you enjoy will ALWAYS feel better than engaging with generic shit built for mass marketability.
Subjective bit, but imo our branding also kinda sucks. "Fediverse" sounds like some clunky .gov message board that the FBI uses to share crime statistics with the CIA and ATF. Anything "-iverse" comes off as hyperbolic. "Lemmy" sounds like "lemming". "Beehaw" sounds like an apiary manufacturer based in Alabama. "kbin" evokes imagery of a trash can for...'k'. I mean, it's all nit-picky shit, but the connotation of our chosen labels lean negative. It wasn't a barrier to entry for any of us here now; but you know there are potential users who take one glance at the word "fediverse", conclude that it sounds stupid, and move on without a second thought. All that said, I'm cool with folks like that staying on reddit!
There’s probably a large percentage of Reddit users that are still getting everything they’re looking for with the official app and what’s left of the site. Quick hits of memes are fun, and I do take some pleasure in correctly guessing the top comments in a thread.
The level of conversation on Kbin/Lemmy reminds me more of what old Reddit used to be like back in the day, and I think I’m okay with that being a smaller community than Reddit at large. I keep reminding myself and others that these communities don’t ever need to be as big as Reddit, they just need to be big enough.
Absolutely. Smaller communities are often even better, more a conversation and less of an overwhelming hive mind.
Im not sure how much I want people to leave reddit. There was a lot of garbage users and bots and such. Even if all actual individuals left reddit the corpo, bot, other things from some organization elements I bet would be a fairly large populace.
I would prefer if only those who wants to leave reddit left. That this would be an option only for those who are prepared to migrate, and not the redditor who likes their new UI and their official app. I think this place might be the wrong place for them. At this point Lemmy gives me the feeling of a web forum, which in all fairness is pretty cool tech wise (I really like the federated part) but also more or less just a web forum. I can't imagine what kind of negative experience the average redditor would have here..
"It doesn't look like reddit" "What are communities?" "Where are all the people?" Etcetera.
Which is fair, I think Fediverse has a bit of growing to do still. That being said, I can live without that kind of content here, and I'd rather have more quality over quantity here. That's just me though, I'm looking forward to seeing where this place ends up.
Most people just want things to work, and once they've become accustomed to a platform, they're reluctant to learn a new one. Especially if it's just getting off the ground. It wouldn't surprise me at all if a lot of the early adopters here have gone through this before and know that things will get better (in terms of functionality as well as content) as time goes on.
What you just described is literally the hardest thing about social media.
The familiarity of Reddit is a huge boon. People think the fediverse is some mystical hard thing (it’s not lol) but they want simplicity.
Well, after what happened with /r/MildlyInteresting and others, more of us have are starting to feel as if Reddit, the company, has metaphorically declared a wanna-be "war" on the mods. Toss in the statements by Spez the other day about users, who gave the company loads of data for free, somehow being wrong to expect a certain degree of reciprocity and, I might expect a certain increase in migration rates. After all, I am now here. (Hello!)
Fear of missing out, I guess. There's so much happening on there constantly, always trying to grab your attention. It was a nice time waster but recent events put the platform on the same path of Facebook and Twitter: Cultural irrelevance.
It will take some time for most, but as soon as more people realise Reddit is down and out, they'll leave aswell and it will become a place for your crazy uncle to share his conspiracy myths, but not a place where your friends hang out.
There are many reasons, ranging from not wanting to leave already established communities, Lemmy and Kbin aren't quite as robust as Reddit is yet, and a lot of people just frankly don't care enough to switch. Plus the lack of a mobile for Kbin doesn't help.
Just gotta be patient and win people over slowly when they willing to make the jump :) We may see some more once the third-party apps shutdown at the end of the month.
If you’re on iOS, you can do “share > add to Home Screen > add” to get a make-shift app. If you go this route, you’ll find that you’re lacking navigation arrows to go back. Just swipe the left of the screen to go back.
Alternatively, there’s a beta app called Memmy if you don’t mind beta.
Yeah just type Kbin into the Play Store
Oh sick! I wasn't aware one existed yet! What app is it?
Which app are you using??
The communities I browse are either small (behavioral science/school) or full of elders who aren’t interested with switching platforms. So that’s a pretty big reason. Some of them have organizations that still have large presences on things like fb. Not having an account hamstrings a persons ability to stay current with professional topics…not great for a lot of fields. Now, this is just my particular instance. But I’ve heard a lot of the same from colleagues and adjacent professions. As for me, my account is deleted and I don’t contribute content meaningfully anymore. Which I suspect is another major downside to all of this, brain drain.
I think kbin/Lemmy is already showing promise as a community gathering-place, but it's nowhere near useable for being a repository of knowledge like Reddit is - if you want to know how to download videos from an obscure local streaming platform in a small country, hear experiences of doctors treating a specific chronic condition, or find answers to a highly specific scientific question, a quick search with site:reddit.com would usually give you the answer, and if you didn't there would usually be a relevant sub with someone knowledgeable in the field.
It's going to take many years for kbin/Lemmy to reach this status of a digital Great Library of Alexandria (if at all), and so much information is still going to be lost if Reddit shuts down.
Kbin and Lemmy are still fairly new so I do not anticipate everyone would be willing to make the jump if it means putting up with relatively small member counts. We just have to put in the extra effort ourselves to keep these communities fresh and active.
Because it still lacks content, is pretty unpolished, and the nature of fedi makes it complicated for a lot of people. That's a lot of barriers, so it's going to be a slow growth from here while these issues get worked on.
Want to start off by saying I love lemmy and I know it's not perfect but things will get better. There are many people though that don't have a high tolerance for bugs. The bug with browsing the All page would probably turn many off. Instances also might be too confusing for some people and they would rather turn back to what is most familiar. I'll admit that I still am a little bit confused about how instances work but I'd rather put more effort into learning about this platform, contributing to conversation to help grow the platform, etc. Not many users would want to put that effort in though because they seek something easy, familiar and maybe mindless to pass time.
It will take non-early adopters a while. If reddit continues to limp along, there will be people who stick. But I think the real exodus will occur when they IPO. We're only seeing the tip of the iceberg now, wait until there are shareholders and post IPO ad corporations to placate...
I don't think you understand the benefits of the Fediverse. With multiple sites you have alternatives to go to if the site goes to shit. Lemmy and kbin sites also appeal to different tastes, rather than having to endure one size fits all mentality. Being federated means you can subscribe to and access and post on other federated sites from kbin. No more monopoly abuse.
I agree, this is by far the biggest problem. I understand federation, and it does have some advantages, but it splits up an already small community. Before the protest, if I wanted to get some quick opinions from a niche domain, all I had to do was google a few keywords and makenit search only reddit. How would I achieve that on fediverse I don't know. How do you guys search for content here?
So lemmy/kbin doesn't feel the same yet. A lot of the content I viewed on reddit, just isn't here in the same way. I think when the api changes take affect, we will see many more people making the switch as in a lot of subs, the content is posted via api when scrapeing other sources. That mixed with changes in moderation will be catalysts to people moving here full time. I also think there still needs to be some work on the interface. Even the best run instances don't have the same look and feel of reddit. If something feels different, people will resist it no matter how much they want to like it. As much as some people may have thought it would be, this is not an overnight migration.
People are lazy and don't want change.
The lack of good mobile apps is a huge pain point at the moment. Sure it will get fixed eventually but right now that’s a lot of friction to overcome.
Where is everything? Whats with all the "View magazine elsewhere" things?
thanks for using Leebra!
go to feed...
We're early adopters. Early adopters have a higher tolerance for (and ability to deal with) things like bugs, confusing UI, uncertainty, and probably continual change for the short term.
But hey, someone's gotta do it. The end result of this will be an established community and a more polished product. Over time, more and more people will show up as this place gets better and better, and Reddit continues to worsen. (Everyone knows that old.reddit is going away, it's just a matter of when.)
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