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TIL About the 1985 MOVE bombing, where the Philadelphia Police Department bombed and burned 61 houses, murdering 11 and leaving 250 homeless

a year ago by An Original Thought to c/todayilearned

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anoriginalthought 67 points a year ago

Notable Lines:

"Attention MOVE: This is America. You have to abide by the laws of the United States." They were given 15 minutes to come out.

Police used more than 10,000 rounds of ammunition. At 2 p.m., Sambor ordered that the compound be bombed.

Ramona Africa said that police fired at those trying to escape.

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socphoenix 58 points a year ago

They also reportedly blocked fire trucks from getting to the fire and are still tying up litigation claiming that they shouldn’t have to pay for the damage to the rest of the destroyed block from the resulting fire.

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themeatbridge 51 points a year ago

They also refused to release the remains of the people killed, denying they retained any. Eventually, the University of Pennsylvania admitted to retaining some of the remains of 12 year old Delisha Africa and returned them to her family, in 2021.

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socphoenix 27 points a year ago

Every time I learn more about this it somehow gets more horrific.

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lattrommi 26 points a year ago

also this: "The court decided that the plaintiffs did not have a Fourth Amendment claim against the city because there was no seizure when the defendants dropped explosives on the plaintiffs' buildings, and that city officials and police officers had qualified immunity"

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reagansrottencorpse 23 points a year ago

I'm so tired of living in this white supremacist shit hole.

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Bloomcole 13 points a year ago

Just as they did in Waco.
Defiance of the US regime has to be made into an example and crushed in the most violent way.

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Maeve 3 points a year ago

Nice sn! 🤣

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anoriginalthought 3 points a year ago

Thanks! 😃

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pineapplelover 55 points a year ago

A lawsuit in federal court found that the city used excessive force and violated constitutional protections against unreasonable search and seizure.

ya don't say

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jlow 18 points a year ago

And let me guess, it had zero consequences for any of the cops involved?

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prole 31 points a year ago

ACAB

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Onyxonblack 13 points a year ago

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crazyminner -1 points a year ago

ACNTD

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prole 6 points a year ago

don't know that acronym

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crazyminner 2 points a year ago

All Cops Need To Die.

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Pat_Riot 15 points a year ago

Yes, the police have always been the enemy of the people, doubly so for minorities.

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RebekahWSD 15 points a year ago

I learned about this in school and it broke the little trust I had in cops (I was raised sheltered and white). Any lingering trust was broken when I talked to my mothers (now ex) cop friend. Spiteful shitty person she was.

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anoriginalthought 17 points a year ago

Most Statesians lose their faith in cops/country in a similar way. There's a reason US high schools don't teach recent history. If it's far enough back like the early 1900's or 1800's then you can rationalize it with platitudes like "it was a different time back then" or "we hadn't evolved as a society yet". Lot harder to rationalize away when it was only 40 years ago.

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RebekahWSD 4 points a year ago

So they no longer teach recent history? Sucks. I think I'm now at an age where I can go terrorize a school board. My mother will be delighted!

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jupiter_jazz 10 points a year ago

I never learned about the Tulsa race massacre, and I live in state. I was much older when I learned about it.

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anoriginalthought 5 points a year ago

Civic engagement is always good. Some high schools will have some things in the textbooks but class curricula never get that far, preferring to leave off around WWII or the second red scare at latest if they even touch the 1900's.

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RebekahWSD 5 points a year ago

Weird. I know we went up to the then current Desert Storm stuff. Well. Almost current. And watched American History X in class.

Scarring as it should be.

Then I remember that was twenty years ago and get very sad.

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TheJesusaurus 3 points a year ago

Or 4

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unemployedclaquer 9 points a year ago

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Trainguyrom 9 points a year ago

Also worth noting that any owner-occupied homes that were destroyed likely received nothing from insurance because most insurance policies specifically exclude damage caused by military or law enforcement action.

This also came up when police destroyed someone's home trying to apprehend a thief who'd broken in to try to escape the police. They literally rammed a police vehicle through a wall of the home for example and the homeower was forced to sue their own police department to try to recoup any of the costs they created for them

If your home is badly damaged or destroyed by an event not covered by insurance you can be due tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in repairs, it may not be occupiable until it is repaired, and you still have to pay your mortgage and taxes while you're trying to figure out where to find a hundred thousand dollars to fix it on top of your new expense of renting some place to crash while the work is completed. Oh and replacing any belongings that were destroyed in the process too of course

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ideonek 5 points a year ago

Shit.

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LaLuzDelSol -48 points a year ago

I am not defending the Philadelphia PDs actions here, which were clearly inappropriate, but I don't think it's accurate to say they "murdered" 11 people. If the PD kills someone while trying to serve an arrest warrant after being shot at, that is pretty clearly a lawful homicide and not murder. The death of the children could certainly be considered manslaughter but I don't think it meets the standard for murder either since there was, arguably, no intention to kill them.

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superniceperson 38 points a year ago

Sometimes I wonder how the us has gotten away with its too numerous to count war crimes and crimes against humanity; and then, like magic, one of you appear.

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LaLuzDelSol -23 points a year ago

I literally said I am not defending the police department. People should absolutely have gone to jail for this, but explain to me how it's murder for a police officer to shoot and kill someone who shot at them first, while legally trying to serve a warrant.

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superniceperson 23 points a year ago

You do not have bombs at the ready, on planes, loaded, ready to go, if you arent expecting to murder people.

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mathemachristian 14 points a year ago

I am not gonna defend hitler but he didn't do anything unlawful

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LePoisson 36 points a year ago

I am not defending the Philadelphia PDs actions here

That's literally what you're doing. Literally.

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LaLuzDelSol -24 points a year ago

Zero nuance as usual... just because I don't think something was murder doesn't mean I am defending them or their actions.

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mathemachristian 18 points a year ago

i am not defending it your honor I just think calling it murder is a bit harsh

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ChairmanMeow 30 points a year ago

They used more than 10000 rounds and ultimately dropped bombs on the neighborhood. That's excessive force and therefore no longer a lawful homicide.

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Apeman42 28 points a year ago

So it seems like you're something of an expert on this subject, and that being the case maybe you can help answer a question I've had for a while:

Do different boot leathers have different tastes, or is it more of a texture thing?

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Bloomcole 23 points a year ago

thanks officer pig

Certainly the best way to "serve an arrest warrant".
Who coul've imagined innocent men, women and children would die horribly from this:
serve an arrest warrant

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7toed 22 points a year ago

Bomb. Helicopter. Dropped. No intention my fat asshole

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yermaw 10 points a year ago

Did they say whoops?

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ipkpjersi 21 points a year ago

I think dropping bombs does actually count as murderous intent.

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LaLuzDelSol -21 points a year ago

They dropped, in total, 3 pounds of bombs on a roof. Nobody was harmed by the explosions.

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slaneesh_is_right 24 points a year ago

It's just a light bombing guys, chill.

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Bloomcole 14 points a year ago

5 dead children, 6 adults you scumbag

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000 8 points a year ago

I don't get it. How the fuck these people end up on lemmy of all places. Do they not have reddit for this crap?

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DancingBear 5 points a year ago

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ipkpjersi 2 points a year ago

Obviously you don't know what the word intent means.

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TheMadBeagle 19 points a year ago

My brother in Christ, they were charged with useing excessive force and burned down a huge part of a neighborhood. Fuck off out of here with that god awful take.

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bestagon 18 points a year ago

You don’t think dropping bombs counts as intent to kill? I think they were careless enough regarding collateral damage to say they killed the victims.

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LaLuzDelSol -18 points a year ago

They dropped two 1.5 pound bombs, which did not hurt anyone directly. The plan was to set the building on fire and flush people out, which was a bad idea, but they didn't just level the building with explosives or something.

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mathemachristian 11 points a year ago

The fact that they didn't go full zionist doesn't make it better?!

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Bloomcole 10 points a year ago

This looks pretty zionist:

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ReluctantMuskrat 3 points a year ago

And if your apartment building was 5 buildings away, burned down and your children died due to their wreckless behavior, predictable outcome, wanton disregard for the lives of the innocent people all around and prevention of firefighters from responding to the scene, what would you call it? It was just an oopsie?

INAL but it actually meets the definition of 3rd degree murder is Pennsylvania I believe.

"In Pennsylvania, third-degree murder is a homicide committed with malice but without the specific intent to kill (first-degree murder) or during the commission of a felony (second-degree murder)."

When you're in just as much or more danger from the "good guys" as you are the "bad guys", and they have an equal disregard for the law, they're no longer the good guys.

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LaLuzDelSol -2 points a year ago

Things I never said:

-The Philly PD are the good guys. -Burning the apartment blocks was just an oopsie.

The buildings that burned down were already evacuated. Nobody not in the MOVE compound died. I am not a lawyer either but I do not think attempting to forcibly evict someone would be considered malice. It is generally a legal thing for police to do if they have a warrant.

As usual I am frustrated by the lack of nuance on Lemmy. If you are not calling for the deaths of police officers you are a bootlicking fascist.

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mriormro 9 points a year ago

Lol, choke on a dick.

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Evkob 9 points a year ago

A brutal atrocity committed by a police department and your reaction is to "Well, AKTSHUALLY", where's your goddamn sense of empathy man?

Calling the bombing of a neighbourhood simply "inappropriate" is fucked and I fear for your humanity. "Inappropriate" is when I fart at the dinner table, not when one uses bombs on other humans.

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